A
Adams son
Guest
bibleberean said:
You still have not answered my question.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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You still have not answered my question.
B
bibleberean
Guest
THE PROCLAMATION OF GOD'S WORD
http://kjv1611.org.uk/HOW%20I%20KNOW%20 ... HEAVEN.htm
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (I Jn. 5:13)
". . . . I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." (II Tim. 1:12)
Are you going to Heaven or Hell? Do you know the answer right now, or are you waiting to find out after you die? Unfortunately, most people do NOT know the answer and are waiting to see how things turn out. People are living as though the Bible had never been written. People are living their lives in uncertainty, not considering the fact that God has spoken very clearly about their eternal destiny. What about you? Are you going to ignore God's word, or are you willing to take a few moments to see for yourself that God says it IS possible to KNOW your eternal destiny?
THE POWER OF GOD'S PRESERVATION
"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (I Pet. 1:5)
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Philip. 1:6)
I know that I'm going to Heaven because GOD is preserving me. I'm not preserving my own Salvation. I wasn't saved by my good works (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:5), so I do not STAY saved by my good works. I am KEPT by the POWER OF GOD, not by my own power! God is able to keep me from falling (Jude 24), because I'm HIS child and I'm in the palm of HIS hand (Jn. 10:28-29). Ephesians 4:30 says that I have been SEALED by the Holy Spirit of God until the day of redemption! I'm not worried about losing my Salvation. I KNOW I'm going to Heaven because I'm being preserved by God's power.
THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL SECURITY
"I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (Jn. 10:28)
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (Jn. 3:16)
I know I'm going to Heaven because God has PROMISED eternal security to all who BELIEVE on His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. To "believe" on Christ is to "receive" Christ, according to John 1:12. During the spring of 1979, I repented of my sins and received Jesus Christ as my Savior. I had been lost in my sins, condemned to Hell forever (Jn. 3:18, 36). Then a man told me how I could be saved from my sins and from Hell by RECEIVING the Lord Jesus Christ. I received Christ, believing that HE ALONE could save me. I trusted in Him totally, for I knew that He was my only hope. I called upon Him to save me and He did (Rom. 10:13, 9-10). He brought me into God's family as a "son of God" (Jn. 1:12; I Jn. 3:2-3). I was a child of the devil, a child of wrath (Jn. 8:44; Eph. 2:2-3), but now I'm eternally secure as a child of God.
If I sin as a child of God, then my Heavenly Father will rebuke and chasten me , just as any good father would (Rev. 3:10; Heb. 12:4-8), but He will not condemn me with the world (I Cor. 11:32). God has promised His children ETERNAL SECURITY.
THE POSSESSION GOD HAS GIVEN HIS SAINTS
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (Jn. 5:24)
"He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." (I Jn. 5:12)
I know I'm going to Heaven because God has already given me ETERNAL LIFE . I'm not waiting to receive eternal life-I ALREADY HAVE it as a present possession. Read the above verses carefully and see for yourself that eternal life is IN Jesus Christ, and that you can receive eternal life RIGHT NOW by receiving Christ right now!
When I received the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour, God placed His Eternal Spirit within me and gave me Eternal Life. As a child of God, I'm still waiting to see Jesus, to enter Heaven, and to receive my new glorified body, but I'm NOT waiting to be saved. My soul IS saved, and I know I'm going to Heaven because God has given me Eternal Life.
THE PERFECTION OF GOD'S SAINTS
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (Heb. 10:14)
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the
blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." (Rom. 4:5-8)
Have you ever heard the expression "Nobody's perfect?" That isn't true. In God's eyes, the SOULS of all His saints ARE perfect, because they have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation. Jesus shed His sinless blood to pay for my sins. He OFFERED Himself as a PAYMENT for my sin. He paid my sin debt because I couldn't. By receiving Him as my Saviour, I am also receiving the fact that He has PAID for my sins and that I can now REST in His finished work, because my sins are GONE! My soul (not my flesh) has been made PERFECT through the completed Blood Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I KNOW I'm going to Heaven!
What about you? Why not forsake your own self-righteousness right now and receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour? Why live a life of uncertainty when you can KNOW your eternal destiny? Why not get it settled right now? Receive Christ today. Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Why not call upon the Lord to save you right now? You've seen the promises of scripture. Are you willing to CLAIM those promises by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ today? Tomorrow may be too late.
http://kjv1611.org.uk/HOW%20I%20KNOW%20 ... HEAVEN.htm
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (I Jn. 5:13)
". . . . I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." (II Tim. 1:12)
Are you going to Heaven or Hell? Do you know the answer right now, or are you waiting to find out after you die? Unfortunately, most people do NOT know the answer and are waiting to see how things turn out. People are living as though the Bible had never been written. People are living their lives in uncertainty, not considering the fact that God has spoken very clearly about their eternal destiny. What about you? Are you going to ignore God's word, or are you willing to take a few moments to see for yourself that God says it IS possible to KNOW your eternal destiny?
THE POWER OF GOD'S PRESERVATION
"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (I Pet. 1:5)
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Philip. 1:6)
I know that I'm going to Heaven because GOD is preserving me. I'm not preserving my own Salvation. I wasn't saved by my good works (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:5), so I do not STAY saved by my good works. I am KEPT by the POWER OF GOD, not by my own power! God is able to keep me from falling (Jude 24), because I'm HIS child and I'm in the palm of HIS hand (Jn. 10:28-29). Ephesians 4:30 says that I have been SEALED by the Holy Spirit of God until the day of redemption! I'm not worried about losing my Salvation. I KNOW I'm going to Heaven because I'm being preserved by God's power.
THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL SECURITY
"I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (Jn. 10:28)
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (Jn. 3:16)
I know I'm going to Heaven because God has PROMISED eternal security to all who BELIEVE on His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. To "believe" on Christ is to "receive" Christ, according to John 1:12. During the spring of 1979, I repented of my sins and received Jesus Christ as my Savior. I had been lost in my sins, condemned to Hell forever (Jn. 3:18, 36). Then a man told me how I could be saved from my sins and from Hell by RECEIVING the Lord Jesus Christ. I received Christ, believing that HE ALONE could save me. I trusted in Him totally, for I knew that He was my only hope. I called upon Him to save me and He did (Rom. 10:13, 9-10). He brought me into God's family as a "son of God" (Jn. 1:12; I Jn. 3:2-3). I was a child of the devil, a child of wrath (Jn. 8:44; Eph. 2:2-3), but now I'm eternally secure as a child of God.
If I sin as a child of God, then my Heavenly Father will rebuke and chasten me , just as any good father would (Rev. 3:10; Heb. 12:4-8), but He will not condemn me with the world (I Cor. 11:32). God has promised His children ETERNAL SECURITY.
THE POSSESSION GOD HAS GIVEN HIS SAINTS
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (Jn. 5:24)
"He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." (I Jn. 5:12)
I know I'm going to Heaven because God has already given me ETERNAL LIFE . I'm not waiting to receive eternal life-I ALREADY HAVE it as a present possession. Read the above verses carefully and see for yourself that eternal life is IN Jesus Christ, and that you can receive eternal life RIGHT NOW by receiving Christ right now!
When I received the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour, God placed His Eternal Spirit within me and gave me Eternal Life. As a child of God, I'm still waiting to see Jesus, to enter Heaven, and to receive my new glorified body, but I'm NOT waiting to be saved. My soul IS saved, and I know I'm going to Heaven because God has given me Eternal Life.
THE PERFECTION OF GOD'S SAINTS
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (Heb. 10:14)
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the
blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." (Rom. 4:5-8)
Have you ever heard the expression "Nobody's perfect?" That isn't true. In God's eyes, the SOULS of all His saints ARE perfect, because they have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation. Jesus shed His sinless blood to pay for my sins. He OFFERED Himself as a PAYMENT for my sin. He paid my sin debt because I couldn't. By receiving Him as my Saviour, I am also receiving the fact that He has PAID for my sins and that I can now REST in His finished work, because my sins are GONE! My soul (not my flesh) has been made PERFECT through the completed Blood Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I KNOW I'm going to Heaven!
What about you? Why not forsake your own self-righteousness right now and receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour? Why live a life of uncertainty when you can KNOW your eternal destiny? Why not get it settled right now? Receive Christ today. Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Why not call upon the Lord to save you right now? You've seen the promises of scripture. Are you willing to CLAIM those promises by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ today? Tomorrow may be too late.
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
How about the promise of death to Christians who turn away?
B
bibleberean
Guest
A Completed Sacrifice
CH Spurgeon
And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering: and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him. (Leviticus 1:4)
If by that laying on of his hand the bullock became the offerer's sacrifice, how much more shall Jesus become ours by the laying on of the hand of faith?
My faith doth lay her hand On that dear head of Thine, While like a penitent I stand, And there confess my sin.
If a bullock could be accepted for him to make atonement for him, how much more shall the Lord Jesus be our full and all-sufficient propitiation? Some quarrel with the great truth of substitution; but as for us, it is our hope, our joy, our boast, our all.
Jesus is accepted for us to make atonement for us, and we are "accepted in the Beloved." Let the reader take care at once to lay his hand on the Lord's completed sacrifice, that by accepting it he may obtain the benefit of it. If he has done so once, let him do it again. If he has never done so, let him put out his hand without a moment's delay. Jesus is yours now if you will have Him. Lean on Him--lean hard on Him--and He is yours beyond all question; you are reconciled to God, your sins are blotted out, and you are the Lord's.
CH Spurgeon
And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering: and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him. (Leviticus 1:4)
If by that laying on of his hand the bullock became the offerer's sacrifice, how much more shall Jesus become ours by the laying on of the hand of faith?
My faith doth lay her hand On that dear head of Thine, While like a penitent I stand, And there confess my sin.
If a bullock could be accepted for him to make atonement for him, how much more shall the Lord Jesus be our full and all-sufficient propitiation? Some quarrel with the great truth of substitution; but as for us, it is our hope, our joy, our boast, our all.
Jesus is accepted for us to make atonement for us, and we are "accepted in the Beloved." Let the reader take care at once to lay his hand on the Lord's completed sacrifice, that by accepting it he may obtain the benefit of it. If he has done so once, let him do it again. If he has never done so, let him put out his hand without a moment's delay. Jesus is yours now if you will have Him. Lean on Him--lean hard on Him--and He is yours beyond all question; you are reconciled to God, your sins are blotted out, and you are the Lord's.
G
greyfeather
Guest
Four things God wants you too know
bibleberean,
I had these posted on Bible study on topic Brutis/HisCatalyst had started about losing ones salvation.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Is this saying there is a chance we might loose salvation ?
bibleberean,
I had these posted on Bible study on topic Brutis/HisCatalyst had started about losing ones salvation.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Is this saying there is a chance we might loose salvation ?
B
bibleberean
Guest
[/quote:af438]DIME Ministries said:
Romans 6:16 is not about Christians who turn away but about whether or not a Christian should and can sin.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
The verses preceding the above verse place this verse in it's proper context.
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Can a Christian sin? The answer to this is obvious.
The verses after this show that grace is a gift. A gift has no conditions attached to it.
Paul's questions are rhetorical.
Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Paul is asking why do you as Christians want to continue in sin when you know those things bring about death.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
If a Christian can lose his or her salvation then they clearly can never have had eternal life.
Jesus should never have said these words if we can lose our gift.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
There is nothing that can separate the true child of God from Christ.
Now let us look at Romans 8 in which Paul clearly states that the child of God cannot lose his or her salvation.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
It is impossible for a person to be a true born again child of God and then become unborn... We are either or of the flesh or of the spirit...
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The body we inhabit now is dead because of sin as the verse above indicates.
We are to consider ourselves already as dead in the flesh.
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Is there anything in these verses that indicate that a true child of God can lose their salvation?
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Why would Christ have to make intercession for us if we were totally sinless?
Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
According to the above verses NOTHING can separate us form Christ.
It would be impossible to KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE if we could lose our salvation.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Salvation is a gift. It cannot be earned or kept. It must be received.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
We are saved for good works not by them...
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
I could not address all the verses you gave. I simply cannot do all that work in one post.
I can deal with one at a time as time permits.
I hope this is of some value to you.
In His service,
Robert
B
bibleberean
Guest
Re: Four things God wants you too know
Hello,
No it isn't. If that were the case then how can any Christian ever be reconciled to God?
These verses are about Jews who want to go back to the Old Testament sacrifices for sin.
The preceding verses show that the Hebrews who believe are saved throught the one time sacrifice of Christ on the cross. There is no more sacrifice for sins.
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Christ was sacrifice once.
If His sacrifice is not sufficient then there is no more sacrifice for sins and no sacrifice can cleanse the sinner.
Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Anyone who willfully walks away from Christ was never saved in the first place.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
greyfeather said:
Hello,
No it isn't. If that were the case then how can any Christian ever be reconciled to God?
These verses are about Jews who want to go back to the Old Testament sacrifices for sin.
The preceding verses show that the Hebrews who believe are saved throught the one time sacrifice of Christ on the cross. There is no more sacrifice for sins.
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Christ was sacrifice once.
If His sacrifice is not sufficient then there is no more sacrifice for sins and no sacrifice can cleanse the sinner.
Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Anyone who willfully walks away from Christ was never saved in the first place.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Judy
Member
Here are a couple of other verses that speak to the fact that we can not lose our salvation.
- John 5:24. "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.[/*:m:78785]
- Jude 24. Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy[/*:m:78785]
- Philippians 1:6. being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;[/*:m:78785]
G
greyfeather
Guest
Four things God wants you too know
Thanks to both of you . I didnt know that Paul was talking just about the Jews. I had this conversation with some freinds and it was kind of a split vote half thought he was saying all could loose there salavtion and the others said once saved always saved.
Thanks to both of you . I didnt know that Paul was talking just about the Jews. I had this conversation with some freinds and it was kind of a split vote half thought he was saying all could loose there salavtion and the others said once saved always saved.
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
Bibleberean,
I am responding to your post and I didn't edit any of your quotes except to make red the Bible verses. I attempted to deal with each argument you made and if you are unsatisfied with any of my arguments, please let me know and we will discuss it further.
Please let us act like Christians as we discuss this subject. Not saying that you won't, but I have been involved in discussion on this and it turned very ugly. It caused seperation and Christ is more concerned with our love for each other than our doctrinal differences.
God bless you!
Please note that you previously stated no conditions and I have shown conditions in two of the passages you have quoted.
Jesus quite often spoke in parables to convey a spiritual idea. That is the same with the term "born again." It is something that helps us understand what happens to us. It is a new beginning. Like in 2 Corinthians 5 when Paul says we are a new creation when we become a Christian. He doesn't mean we are a literal new creature, does he?
Of course not. He is using a term to help us understand a spiritual reality.
Romans was written to Christians, right?
Romans 8:12-13
...we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Please note what is being stated so clearly here. Paul is saying that if a Christian (you) live a life of sin, they will die spiritually!
That is the only way to understand this verse because it is the next sentence where he states that it is only by the Spirit that it is possible. Thereby saying that it is spiritual death that will occur even to a Christian should they continue to live after the sinful nature.
Also, please see the post I made on "Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:22 pm" in the Can someone become unsaved? thread on this forum in the Bible Study forum. It clearly shows that 1 John 5:13 is a statement that says "These things" meaning it is the entire book of 1 John and we should take the entire book in context, not just chapter 5 and verse 13. I quoted the following passage in that post:
As can be clearly seen by this verse, eternal life is promised to us *only if* we abide in the teachings of Christ. This is a condition for salvation!
Closing statement:
In this post, I have shown passages that prove the conditional nature of our salvation, and have shown that each passage quoted in proof of OSAS was not in full context due to the repeated warnings to Christians given by God Himself through the Apostles Paul and John that spiritual death could occur to them.
I am responding to your post and I didn't edit any of your quotes except to make red the Bible verses. I attempted to deal with each argument you made and if you are unsatisfied with any of my arguments, please let me know and we will discuss it further.
Please let us act like Christians as we discuss this subject. Not saying that you won't, but I have been involved in discussion on this and it turned very ugly. It caused seperation and Christ is more concerned with our love for each other than our doctrinal differences.
God bless you!
Please realize that you quoted other verses that show clear conditions to receive this gift! You posted this:bibleberean said:
Do you not see the clear condition in this verse? It says you are saved *ONLY IF* you abide in Christ. This is repeated more often that can be quoted here in this short post. The condition is to receive and abide in the Lord (John 15:5-6 also clearly show the conditional nature of our salvation).
That is correct! Paul is telling born-again and sealed with the Holy Spirit Christians of the danger of sin! It will cause spiritual death even for a Christian! This is also repeated more times than can be quoted in this short post. I already gave 4 of them in my last post.
This passage never mentions once the thing you said it did. Never that I saw anyways. It says sin causes death, which is exactly what I have been saying all along.
Did you see the condition in verse 27 that we have a responsibility to hear the voice of Christ and also to follow Christ to be under the promise of verse 28?
Please note that you previously stated no conditions and I have shown conditions in two of the passages you have quoted.
The term "born-again" is just that, a term. An anaology. It is not meant to be taken as literally as has been claimed.
Jesus quite often spoke in parables to convey a spiritual idea. That is the same with the term "born again." It is something that helps us understand what happens to us. It is a new beginning. Like in 2 Corinthians 5 when Paul says we are a new creation when we become a Christian. He doesn't mean we are a literal new creature, does he?
Of course not. He is using a term to help us understand a spiritual reality.
No problems here! Full agreement! :D
No, that is not the point of these verses. That idea will be established in verses 16-18 and in chapter 8 verses 12-13 like I already quoted.
Romans was written to Christians, right?
Christ makes intercession for us because we still sin in this world. Then we need to confess our sins to be forgiven of them just like 1 John tells us.
According to the above verses NOTHING outside of ourselves can force us away from Christ. I already quoted and just referenced a passage just before this that you quoted that clearly stated that Christians can seperate themselves from Christ, here it is again for you to read:
Romans 8:12-13
...we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Please note what is being stated so clearly here. Paul is saying that if a Christian (you) live a life of sin, they will die spiritually!
That is the only way to understand this verse because it is the next sentence where he states that it is only by the Spirit that it is possible. Thereby saying that it is spiritual death that will occur even to a Christian should they continue to live after the sinful nature.
That is not true. I have full assurance of my salvation and I don't believe in OSAS. I have infinite times more assurance now than I did when I believed in OSAS.
Also, please see the post I made on "Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:22 pm" in the Can someone become unsaved? thread on this forum in the Bible Study forum. It clearly shows that 1 John 5:13 is a statement that says "These things" meaning it is the entire book of 1 John and we should take the entire book in context, not just chapter 5 and verse 13. I quoted the following passage in that post:
As can be clearly seen by this verse, eternal life is promised to us *only if* we abide in the teachings of Christ. This is a condition for salvation!
We are in 100% full agreement here. No problems what-so-ever. I don't recall ever talking about works. Works have nothing to do with gaining or maintaining salvation.
I only gave four passages. Much shorter than I had originally planned on. I did it for the benefit of others so that this discussion would be more thorough instead of quoting verses and not dealing with what they are actually saying.
Closing statement:
In this post, I have shown passages that prove the conditional nature of our salvation, and have shown that each passage quoted in proof of OSAS was not in full context due to the repeated warnings to Christians given by God Himself through the Apostles Paul and John that spiritual death could occur to them.
B
bibleberean
Guest
The verses in 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 do have a condition. It is to believe the gospel without perverting it.
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The "if ye keep in memory what I preached" is not a condition for being saved in the sense that if you believe the gospel and then forget it you will lose your salvation but not ever having truly believed the gospel in the first place.
The gospel message is simple and by believing it as 1 Corinthians 15:2 clearly states you "are saved" by believing it.
What then does Paul mean by "if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you unless ye have believed in vain"?
The answer is very simple.
Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Notice the emphasis that Christ died for our Sins so that we "could be delivered from this present evil world".
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Galatians 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
If a person believes the gospel but adds anything to it such as the law of Moses, circumcision, baptism, or living a sinless life to it that person is not saved but under a curse.
Paul was so strong in stating this that he repeats himself.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
That is the only way a person can not continue in the word Paul preached and they would have believed in vain.
The Roman Catholic church has added keeping the "New Law" to the gospel and is an apostate church.
Council of Trent
"If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation but are superfluous, and that without them or without the desire of them men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification, though all are not necessary for each one, let him be anathema." (ibid., p. 52 -- Seventh Session, Sacraments In General, Canon 4)
This is not having salvation and loosing it. This is adding to the gospel. This subverts it and makes it another.
The Judaisers and those who claim that you can loose your salvation by sin cannot tell us how much sin we have to commit to loose our salvation.
Those who profess that they believe the gospel and yet add to it manifest that they were never really in the fold to begin with.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Salvation is gift that once we receive we cannot loose.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jesus tells us that He knows His sheep.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Christ says that those who are not saved "He never knew".
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Notice Jesus states that He "never knew those who are not His. He does not say that He knew them once and then He forgot them.
Those who believe the gospel but add unto it are not saved. They never were because they did not truly believe that Jesus Christ's death on the cross for their sins was enough.
They have spit on the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and added their own works of righteousness to the gospel and have perverted it.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The "if ye keep in memory what I preached" is not a condition for being saved in the sense that if you believe the gospel and then forget it you will lose your salvation but not ever having truly believed the gospel in the first place.
The gospel message is simple and by believing it as 1 Corinthians 15:2 clearly states you "are saved" by believing it.
What then does Paul mean by "if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you unless ye have believed in vain"?
The answer is very simple.
Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Notice the emphasis that Christ died for our Sins so that we "could be delivered from this present evil world".
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Galatians 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
If a person believes the gospel but adds anything to it such as the law of Moses, circumcision, baptism, or living a sinless life to it that person is not saved but under a curse.
Paul was so strong in stating this that he repeats himself.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
That is the only way a person can not continue in the word Paul preached and they would have believed in vain.
The Roman Catholic church has added keeping the "New Law" to the gospel and is an apostate church.
Council of Trent
"If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation but are superfluous, and that without them or without the desire of them men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification, though all are not necessary for each one, let him be anathema." (ibid., p. 52 -- Seventh Session, Sacraments In General, Canon 4)
This is not having salvation and loosing it. This is adding to the gospel. This subverts it and makes it another.
The Judaisers and those who claim that you can loose your salvation by sin cannot tell us how much sin we have to commit to loose our salvation.
Those who profess that they believe the gospel and yet add to it manifest that they were never really in the fold to begin with.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Salvation is gift that once we receive we cannot loose.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Jesus tells us that He knows His sheep.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Christ says that those who are not saved "He never knew".
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Notice Jesus states that He "never knew those who are not His. He does not say that He knew them once and then He forgot them.
Those who believe the gospel but add unto it are not saved. They never were because they did not truly believe that Jesus Christ's death on the cross for their sins was enough.
They have spit on the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and added their own works of righteousness to the gospel and have perverted it.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
B
bibleberean
Guest
http://kjv1611.org.uk/
THE PROCLAMATION OF GOD'S WORD
http://kjv1611.org.uk/HOW%20I%20KNOW%20 ... HEAVEN.htm
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (I Jn. 5:13)
". . . . I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." (II Tim. 1:12)
Are you going to Heaven or Hell? Do you know the answer right now, or are you waiting to find out after you die? Unfortunately, most people do NOT know the answer and are waiting to see how things turn out. People are living as though the Bible had never been written. People are living their lives in uncertainty, not considering the fact that God has spoken very clearly about their eternal destiny. What about you? Are you going to ignore God's word, or are you willing to take a few moments to see for yourself that God says it IS possible to KNOW your eternal destiny?
THE POWER OF GOD'S PRESERVATION
"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (I Pet. 1:5)
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Philip. 1:6)
I know that I'm going to Heaven because GOD is preserving me. I'm not preserving my own Salvation. I wasn't saved by my good works (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:5), so I do not STAY saved by my good works. I am KEPT by the POWER OF GOD, not by my own power! God is able to keep me from falling (Jude 24), because I'm HIS child and I'm in the palm of HIS hand (Jn. 10:28-29). Ephesians 4:30 says that I have been SEALED by the Holy Spirit of God until the day of redemption! I'm not worried about losing my Salvation. I KNOW I'm going to Heaven because I'm being preserved by God's power.
THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL SECURITY
"I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (Jn. 10:28)
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (Jn. 3:16)
I know I'm going to Heaven because God has PROMISED eternal security to all who BELIEVE on His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. To "believe" on Christ is to "receive" Christ, according to John 1:12. During the spring of 1979, I repented of my sins and received Jesus Christ as my Savior. I had been lost in my sins, condemned to Hell forever (Jn. 3:18, 36). Then a man told me how I could be saved from my sins and from Hell by RECEIVING the Lord Jesus Christ. I received Christ, believing that HE ALONE could save me. I trusted in Him totally, for I knew that He was my only hope. I called upon Him to save me and He did (Rom. 10:13, 9-10). He brought me into God's family as a "son of God" (Jn. 1:12; I Jn. 3:2-3). I was a child of the devil, a child of wrath (Jn. 8:44; Eph. 2:2-3), but now I'm eternally secure as a child of God.
If I sin as a child of God, then my Heavenly Father will rebuke and chasten me , just as any good father would (Rev. 3:10; Heb. 12:4-8), but He will not condemn me with the world (I Cor. 11:32). God has promised His children ETERNAL SECURITY.
THE POSSESSION GOD HAS GIVEN HIS SAINTS
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (Jn. 5:24)
"He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." (I Jn. 5:12)
I know I'm going to Heaven because God has already given me ETERNAL LIFE . I'm not waiting to receive eternal life-I ALREADY HAVE it as a present possession. Read the above verses carefully and see for yourself that eternal life is IN Jesus Christ, and that you can receive eternal life RIGHT NOW by receiving Christ right now!
When I received the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour, God placed His Eternal Spirit within me and gave me Eternal Life. As a child of God, I'm still waiting to see Jesus, to enter Heaven, and to receive my new glorified body, but I'm NOT waiting to be saved. My soul IS saved, and I know I'm going to Heaven because God has given me Eternal Life.
THE PERFECTION OF GOD'S SAINTS
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (Heb. 10:14)
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the
blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." (Rom. 4:5-8)
Have you ever heard the expression "Nobody's perfect?" That isn't true. In God's eyes, the SOULS of all His saints ARE perfect, because they have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation. Jesus shed His sinless blood to pay for my sins. He OFFERED Himself as a PAYMENT for my sin. He paid my sin debt because I couldn't. By receiving Him as my Saviour, I am also receiving the fact that He has PAID for my sins and that I can now REST in His finished work, because my sins are GONE! My soul (not my flesh) has been made PERFECT through the completed Blood Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I KNOW I'm going to Heaven!
What about you? Why not forsake your own self-righteousness right now and receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour? Why live a life of uncertainty when you can KNOW your eternal destiny? Why not get it settled right now? Receive Christ today. Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Why not call upon the Lord to save you right now? You've seen the promises of scripture. Are you willing to CLAIM those promises by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ today? Tomorrow may be too late.
THE PROCLAMATION OF GOD'S WORD
http://kjv1611.org.uk/HOW%20I%20KNOW%20 ... HEAVEN.htm
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (I Jn. 5:13)
". . . . I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." (II Tim. 1:12)
Are you going to Heaven or Hell? Do you know the answer right now, or are you waiting to find out after you die? Unfortunately, most people do NOT know the answer and are waiting to see how things turn out. People are living as though the Bible had never been written. People are living their lives in uncertainty, not considering the fact that God has spoken very clearly about their eternal destiny. What about you? Are you going to ignore God's word, or are you willing to take a few moments to see for yourself that God says it IS possible to KNOW your eternal destiny?
THE POWER OF GOD'S PRESERVATION
"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (I Pet. 1:5)
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Philip. 1:6)
I know that I'm going to Heaven because GOD is preserving me. I'm not preserving my own Salvation. I wasn't saved by my good works (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:5), so I do not STAY saved by my good works. I am KEPT by the POWER OF GOD, not by my own power! God is able to keep me from falling (Jude 24), because I'm HIS child and I'm in the palm of HIS hand (Jn. 10:28-29). Ephesians 4:30 says that I have been SEALED by the Holy Spirit of God until the day of redemption! I'm not worried about losing my Salvation. I KNOW I'm going to Heaven because I'm being preserved by God's power.
THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL SECURITY
"I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (Jn. 10:28)
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (Jn. 3:16)
I know I'm going to Heaven because God has PROMISED eternal security to all who BELIEVE on His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. To "believe" on Christ is to "receive" Christ, according to John 1:12. During the spring of 1979, I repented of my sins and received Jesus Christ as my Savior. I had been lost in my sins, condemned to Hell forever (Jn. 3:18, 36). Then a man told me how I could be saved from my sins and from Hell by RECEIVING the Lord Jesus Christ. I received Christ, believing that HE ALONE could save me. I trusted in Him totally, for I knew that He was my only hope. I called upon Him to save me and He did (Rom. 10:13, 9-10). He brought me into God's family as a "son of God" (Jn. 1:12; I Jn. 3:2-3). I was a child of the devil, a child of wrath (Jn. 8:44; Eph. 2:2-3), but now I'm eternally secure as a child of God.
If I sin as a child of God, then my Heavenly Father will rebuke and chasten me , just as any good father would (Rev. 3:10; Heb. 12:4-8), but He will not condemn me with the world (I Cor. 11:32). God has promised His children ETERNAL SECURITY.
THE POSSESSION GOD HAS GIVEN HIS SAINTS
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (Jn. 5:24)
"He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." (I Jn. 5:12)
I know I'm going to Heaven because God has already given me ETERNAL LIFE . I'm not waiting to receive eternal life-I ALREADY HAVE it as a present possession. Read the above verses carefully and see for yourself that eternal life is IN Jesus Christ, and that you can receive eternal life RIGHT NOW by receiving Christ right now!
When I received the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour, God placed His Eternal Spirit within me and gave me Eternal Life. As a child of God, I'm still waiting to see Jesus, to enter Heaven, and to receive my new glorified body, but I'm NOT waiting to be saved. My soul IS saved, and I know I'm going to Heaven because God has given me Eternal Life.
THE PERFECTION OF GOD'S SAINTS
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (Heb. 10:14)
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the
blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." (Rom. 4:5-8)
Have you ever heard the expression "Nobody's perfect?" That isn't true. In God's eyes, the SOULS of all His saints ARE perfect, because they have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation. Jesus shed His sinless blood to pay for my sins. He OFFERED Himself as a PAYMENT for my sin. He paid my sin debt because I couldn't. By receiving Him as my Saviour, I am also receiving the fact that He has PAID for my sins and that I can now REST in His finished work, because my sins are GONE! My soul (not my flesh) has been made PERFECT through the completed Blood Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I KNOW I'm going to Heaven!
What about you? Why not forsake your own self-righteousness right now and receive the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour? Why live a life of uncertainty when you can KNOW your eternal destiny? Why not get it settled right now? Receive Christ today. Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Why not call upon the Lord to save you right now? You've seen the promises of scripture. Are you willing to CLAIM those promises by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ today? Tomorrow may be too late.
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
bibleberean, you didn't respond to anything I said in my post.
B
bibleberean
Guest
DIME Ministries said:
You didn't comment on this?
You wrote:
Quote:
bibleberean Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:31 pm
1 Corinthians 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
"Do you not see the clear condition in this verse? It says you are saved *ONLY IF* you abide in Christ. This is repeated more often that can be quoted here in this short post. The condition is to receive and abide in the Lord (John 15:5-6 also clearly show the conditional nature of our salvation)."
I wrote in the first post on this page...
"The verses in 1 Corinthians 1:1-4 do have a condition. It is to believe the gospel without perverting it."
I then went on to explain What I meant using Galatians chapter one.
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
The text of 1 Corinthians 15 doesn't say a thing about perverting the Gospel. It says you are saved only if you contine to abide in Christ. It doesn't say that one was never saved if they don't abide in Christ, and it doesn't say a word about changing the Gospel.bibleberean said:
Then you went on some tangent about Roman Catholism for reasons I am unsure. I am not now, nor have I ever been a Roman Catholic, although I do have friends who are Roman Catholics.
B
bibleberean
Guest
The text of 1 Corinthians 15 doesn't say a thing about perverting the Gospel. It says you are saved only if you contine to abide in Christ. It doesn't say that one was never saved if they don't abide in Christ, and it doesn't say a word about changing the Gospel.DIME Ministries said:
Then you went on some tangent about Roman Catholism for reasons I am unsure. I am not now, nor have I ever been a Roman Catholic, although I do have friends who are Roman Catholics.[/quote:d4ae2]
Actually the verse doesn't say that you are saved "only if you abide in Christ".
It says "if you keep in memory what I preached unto you".
1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
Remember verse one?
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
If you can't remember what Paul preached you have believed the gospel for nothing. You cannot add or subract anything from the gospel.
Then Paul goes on to write what he preached.
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
These verses clearly teach that a man stands and is saved by "believing the gospel.
If the gospel is perverted then it is not the gospel.
That is the only way a person can believe in vain.
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Galatians 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
I used the Roman Catholic church as an example because Rome teaches another gospel as was clearly proven in my above post.
B
bibleberean
Guest
People's Gospel Hour
http://www.tpgh.org/STt.htm
Suppose It's True After All -- What Then?
Two friends were talking on religious topics. They discussed the question of eternal punishment and agreed that there was no Hell and that a God of love could never allow His creatures to go to everlasting punishment.
The conversation was over when a Christian who had been a silent listener said: "SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE, AFTER ALL."
The words fell on the ears of the other two with unusual force.
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that God means what He says "Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance to all men in that He hath raised Him from the dead" (Acts 17:31).
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that Hell is a reality. God said: "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that Christ alone is the way of salvation and you neglect HIM. "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation" (Hebrews 2:3)?
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that the blood of Christ is the only way your sins can be cleansed. Are you cleansed before the Lord or are you still going on in your sins? "The blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that salvation is not of works as God says in Ephesians 2:8,9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast." What hope then is there in your religion, your church, the sacraments, the preacher or the priest, trying to follow the Golden Rule or keeping the Ten Commandments, or even doing the best you can?
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE, AFTER ALL? If it were not true, then the believer is not losing anything by living for Jesus, by living a good life with eternity's values in view. But if it is true, how terrible would be your doom if you "Die in your sins" (John 8:21). Hurry to Christ and be saved. He alone is the Way into Heaven (John 14:6).
http://www.tpgh.org/STt.htm
Suppose It's True After All -- What Then?
Two friends were talking on religious topics. They discussed the question of eternal punishment and agreed that there was no Hell and that a God of love could never allow His creatures to go to everlasting punishment.
The conversation was over when a Christian who had been a silent listener said: "SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE, AFTER ALL."
The words fell on the ears of the other two with unusual force.
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that God means what He says "Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance to all men in that He hath raised Him from the dead" (Acts 17:31).
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that Hell is a reality. God said: "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that Christ alone is the way of salvation and you neglect HIM. "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation" (Hebrews 2:3)?
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that the blood of Christ is the only way your sins can be cleansed. Are you cleansed before the Lord or are you still going on in your sins? "The blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE that salvation is not of works as God says in Ephesians 2:8,9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast." What hope then is there in your religion, your church, the sacraments, the preacher or the priest, trying to follow the Golden Rule or keeping the Ten Commandments, or even doing the best you can?
SUPPOSE IT IS TRUE, AFTER ALL? If it were not true, then the believer is not losing anything by living for Jesus, by living a good life with eternity's values in view. But if it is true, how terrible would be your doom if you "Die in your sins" (John 8:21). Hurry to Christ and be saved. He alone is the Way into Heaven (John 14:6).
B
bibleberean
Guest
February 1
Charles Haddon Spurgeon
Faith's Check book
Never Despair
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings. (Malachi 4.2)
Fulfilled once in the first advent of our glorious Lord, and yet to have a fuller accomplishment in His second advent, this gracious word is also for daily use. Is it dark with the reader? Does the night deepen into a denser blackness? Still let us not despair: the sun will yet rise. When the night is darkest, dawn is nearest.
The sun which will arise is of no common sort. It is the Sun--the Sun of Righteousness, whose every ray is holiness. He who comes to cheer us, comes in the way of justice as well as of mercy, comes to violate no law even to save us. Jesus as much displays the holiness of God as His love. Our deliverance, when it comes, will be safe because righteous.
Our one point of inquiry should be--"Do we fear the name of the Lord? Do we reverence the living God and walk in His ways?" Then for us the night must be short; and when the morning cometh, all the sickness and sorrow of our soul will be over forever. Light, warmth, joy, and clearness of vision will come, and healing of every disease and distress will follow after.
Has Jesus risen upon us? Let us sit in the sun. Has He hidden His face? Let us wait for His rising. He will shine forth as surely as the sun.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon
Faith's Check book
Never Despair
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings. (Malachi 4.2)
Fulfilled once in the first advent of our glorious Lord, and yet to have a fuller accomplishment in His second advent, this gracious word is also for daily use. Is it dark with the reader? Does the night deepen into a denser blackness? Still let us not despair: the sun will yet rise. When the night is darkest, dawn is nearest.
The sun which will arise is of no common sort. It is the Sun--the Sun of Righteousness, whose every ray is holiness. He who comes to cheer us, comes in the way of justice as well as of mercy, comes to violate no law even to save us. Jesus as much displays the holiness of God as His love. Our deliverance, when it comes, will be safe because righteous.
Our one point of inquiry should be--"Do we fear the name of the Lord? Do we reverence the living God and walk in His ways?" Then for us the night must be short; and when the morning cometh, all the sickness and sorrow of our soul will be over forever. Light, warmth, joy, and clearness of vision will come, and healing of every disease and distress will follow after.
Has Jesus risen upon us? Let us sit in the sun. Has He hidden His face? Let us wait for His rising. He will shine forth as surely as the sun.
B
bibleberean
Guest
February 7
Return from Backsliding
CH Spurgeon Faith's Check Book
If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up. (Job 22:23)
Eliphaz, in this utterance, spoke a great truth, which is the summary of many an inspired Scripture. Reader, has sin pulled you down? Have you become like a ruin? Has the hand of the Lord gone out against you so that in estate you are impoverished and in spirit you are broken down? Was it your own folly which brought upon you all this dilapidation? Then the first thing to be done is to return to the Lord. With deep repentance and sincere faith find your way back from your backsliding. It is you" duty, for you have turned away from Him whom you professed to serve. It is your wisdom, for you cannot strive against Him and prosper. It is your immediate necessity, for what He has done is nothing compared to what He may do in the way of chastisement, since He is Almighty to punish.
See what a promise invites you! You shall be "built up." None but the Almighty can set up the fallen pillars and restore the tottering walls of your condition; but He can and He will do it if you return to Him. Do not delay. Your crushed mind may quite fail you if you go on to rebel; but hearty confession will ease you, and humble faith will console you. Do this, and all will be well.
Return from Backsliding
CH Spurgeon Faith's Check Book
If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up. (Job 22:23)
Eliphaz, in this utterance, spoke a great truth, which is the summary of many an inspired Scripture. Reader, has sin pulled you down? Have you become like a ruin? Has the hand of the Lord gone out against you so that in estate you are impoverished and in spirit you are broken down? Was it your own folly which brought upon you all this dilapidation? Then the first thing to be done is to return to the Lord. With deep repentance and sincere faith find your way back from your backsliding. It is you" duty, for you have turned away from Him whom you professed to serve. It is your wisdom, for you cannot strive against Him and prosper. It is your immediate necessity, for what He has done is nothing compared to what He may do in the way of chastisement, since He is Almighty to punish.
See what a promise invites you! You shall be "built up." None but the Almighty can set up the fallen pillars and restore the tottering walls of your condition; but He can and He will do it if you return to Him. Do not delay. Your crushed mind may quite fail you if you go on to rebel; but hearty confession will ease you, and humble faith will console you. Do this, and all will be well.
B
bibleberean
Guest
From the February 18 "Apples of Gold" Calendar:
If you were drowning and someone offered to pull you from the water, and you accepted that offer, would it be true that you had done anything to save yourself? Could you say that you had been saved by your own works, and thereby become proud? What, then, of those who receive Christ by an act of their will -- was it because they were smart enough, loving enough, wise enough, righteous enough, or anything else enough?
That I choose to accept the pardon God offers in Christ does not constitute any work on my part. It is all of God and all by grace. I can take no credit whatsoever! ÂÂTBC
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
. . .
--Titus 3:5
If you were drowning and someone offered to pull you from the water, and you accepted that offer, would it be true that you had done anything to save yourself? Could you say that you had been saved by your own works, and thereby become proud? What, then, of those who receive Christ by an act of their will -- was it because they were smart enough, loving enough, wise enough, righteous enough, or anything else enough?
That I choose to accept the pardon God offers in Christ does not constitute any work on my part. It is all of God and all by grace. I can take no credit whatsoever! ÂÂTBC
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
. . .
--Titus 3:5