Freewill or robotic puppetry ?

[Grubal Muruch]

Have we given "freewill" by our Creator, or are we mere "robotic puppets" being lead to and fro, to do the will of God, and without any "real" fellowship with He who created us all ?

 

[handy]

I believe we have free will over every thing in our lives...except our regeneration and salvation....for that we are wholly dependent upon God's grace which we cannot get ourselves, but must receive through faith, and even the faith we can't drum up on our own, it comes to us as God's gift..

But, who to marry, what job to have, where to live, what car to drive, which forums to join in...God provides principles for us to follow in our lives, and as long as we follow them, we can pretty much pursue life according to our free will.

I'm a girl, so I can't tell you how often I've been a part of "girl talks" wherein one of my girlfriend's agonized over whether "this guy" or "that guy" was God's handpicked husband for her. I've never bought into that...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I believe we have free will over every thing in our lives...except our regeneration and salvation....for that we are wholly dependent upon God's grace which we cannot get ourselves, but must receive through faith, and even the faith we can't drum up on our own, it comes to us as God's gift..

But, who to marry, what job to have, where to live, what car to drive, which forums to join in...God provides principles for us to follow in our lives, and as long as we follow them, we can pretty much pursue life according to our free will.

I'm a girl, so I can't tell you how often I've been a part of "girl talks" wherein one of my girlfriend's agonized over whether "this guy" or "that guy" was God's handpicked husband for her. I've never bought into that...

Hi. You say that, " we are wholly dependent upon God's grace which we cannot get ourselves, but must receive through faith, and even the faith we can't drum up on our own, it comes to us as God's gift." Now, if we abide by that rule, does that mean God gives everyone the faith to believe, or just certain people ?

You also, further say, "God provides principles for us to follow in our lives, and as long as we follow them, we can pretty much pursue life according to our free will." So I ask you, does that mean, as long as we abide by God's rules, we can then live by freewill, but the moment we start disobeying God's rules, He then takes over control of our choice's ?

 

[Gazelle]

Grubal, can you share what you think so I can engage in conversation?

 

[felix]

Have we given "freewill" by our Creator, or are we mere "robotic puppets" being lead to and fro, to do the will of God, and without any "real" fellowship with He who created us all ?

Many often believe that eternal life or everlasting, is time without bounds or infinite time. The actual fact is something contrary. Eternal or Everlasting means not 'infinite time' but rather 'no time' or 'timeless'. God is not bound by 'infinite time' but He is where time does not exist. So, He can view past, present and future all at the same time.

To visualize, take a river (comparing time) and you are travelling in a boat. Assume I am having an eagle view (how God views) who can exactly say where you started and where you are going and where you will end up. I can even give you special instructions on where not to turn and where to turn because I know where the enemy is and what he is planning. Although the visualization is limited to how a human brain can absorb, but in reality, God can see our past, present and future all at the same time and can change anything at His will.

Can we imagine how will it be for us when there is 'no time'? Certainly not. This is why we don't understand many things what God says from His eagle view of our life's timeline.

 

[patience7]

Have we given "freewill" by our Creator, or are we mere "robotic puppets" being lead to and fro, to do the will of God, and without any "real" fellowship with He who created us all ?

We have been given freewill. Freewill is a choice to believe God or reject God. In the OT they had freewill to serve God or reject God and serve other gods - why would it be any different in the NT?

 

[smaller]

Have we given "freewill" by our Creator, or are we mere "robotic puppets" being lead to and fro, to do the will of God, and without any "real" fellowship with He who created us all ?

Why do you try to pick one or the other when there is at least the possibility that both positions are true?

How you say?

I would have to point out the obvious that 'all' automatically SIN as predictible as A ROBOT. None are immune from that puppetry and all the freewill you can garner will still result in the same produce. All sin, period, end of conversation.

In this way man by freewill or man by determination is ROBOTIC and produces the IDENTICAL reflection of sinning.

On the other hand there is the contemplation of God in Christ who has granted us freedom. Not freewill, freeDOM.

Did you produce that freedom, or did God allow you to share in His Perfect Reflection?

I would say you produced nothing. Our freedom is held up for us to reflect upon. You are welcome to take credit for it, but were I to look at you I doubt you would be holding up a PERFECT REFLECTION for me to contemplate.

So, divide this subject matter all you want to stir up strife.

Both positions are FULLY TRUE and FULLY APPLICABLE to all people.

Your supposed freewill will produce like a robot when it comes to sin.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[elijah23]

Have we given "freewill" by our Creator, or are we mere "robotic puppets" being lead to and fro, to do the will of God, and without any "real" fellowship with He who created us all ?

Free will.

 

[Eventide]

whosoever will..

While there may be many variations of what men call free will.. the only one that concerns me is is the will which is able to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved.. after hearing the gospel of God concerning His Son..

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

But of course there are many who believe and teach that man can't hear the gospel and then trust in Christ unless God regenerates them first.. thereby rendering the gospel itself powerless to set any person free from the lies and deception of the god of this world.. they essentially make the deception of Satan more powerful than the truth of the gospel.

He is that true light which lighteth every man that comes into the world..

 

[Gazelle]

For me there is definitely free will AND fellowship with God!

 

[childeye]

Have we given "freewill" by our Creator, or are we mere "robotic puppets" being lead to and fro, to do the will of God, and without any "real" fellowship with He who created us all ?

Grubal, under this definition of freewill you have outlined you have basically made it so that a man makes his own destiny with no higher powers over him. This would essentially say we are not made in the image of God for God would be made in our image. It's like saying there is no sin that resides in the desires of the flesh, no ignorance of God and therefore no Godhead.

There is a difference between being able to choose and being able to choose wisely and righteously.

So God never gave us the ability to disobey Him or shall I say He never gave us cause to distrust Him. He gave us the ability to obey Him. He gave us honesty not dishonesty.

We are not robots but servants to one or the other of two opposing directions or masters.

This is how we get real fellowship with God through seeing the light from the vantage point of being in darkness. We do have a will that someday will be free.

smaller is right, you have proposed a question based on a false dichotomy.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Grubal, can you share what you think so I can engage in conversation?

Sure, I believe God created man for fellowship. Man chose to sin and sin came into the world. Christ came to pay for those sins and God's grace is offered to ALL who will place their faith in Christ...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Many often believe that eternal life or everlasting, is time without bounds or infinite time. The actual fact is something contrary. Eternal or Everlasting means not 'infinite time' but rather 'no time' or 'timeless'. God is not bound by 'infinite time' but He is where time does not exist. So, He can view past, present and future all at the same time.

To visualize, take a river (comparing time) and you are travelling in a boat. Assume I am having an eagle view (how God views) who can exactly say where you started and where you are going and where you will end up. I can even give you special instructions on where not to turn and where to turn because I know where the enemy is and what he is planning. Although the visualization is limited to how a human brain can absorb, but in reality, God can see our past, present and future all at the same time and can change anything at His will.

Can we imagine how will it be for us when there is 'no time'? Certainly not. This is why we don't understand many things what God says from His eagle view of our life's timeline.

You have some wisdom my friend.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

We have been given freewill. Freewill is a choice to believe God or reject God. In the OT they had freewill to serve God or reject God and serve other gods - why would it be any different in the NT?

AMEN!!!

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Why do you try to pick one or the other when there is at least the possibility that both positions are true?

How you say?

I would have to point out the obvious that 'all' automatically SIN as predictible as A ROBOT. None are immune from that puppetry and all the freewill you can garner will still result in the same produce. All sin, period, end of conversation.

In this way man by freewill or man by determination is ROBOTIC and produces the IDENTICAL reflection of sinning.

On the other hand there is the contemplation of God in Christ who has granted us freedom. Not freewill, freeDOM.

Did you produce that freedom, or did God allow you to share in His Perfect Reflection?

I would say you produced nothing. Our freedom is held up for us to reflect upon. You are welcome to take credit for it, but were I to look at you I doubt you would be holding up a PERFECT REFLECTION for me to contemplate.

So, divide this subject matter all you want to stir up strife.

Both positions are FULLY TRUE and FULLY APPLICABLE to all people.

Your supposed freewill will produce like a robot when it comes to sin.

enjoy!

smaller

God created us for fellowship (I believe) and He did not intend to create a bunch of "puppet's" to do His bidding." We have freewill, however, God wants us to choose Him...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

For me there is definitely free will AND fellowship with God!

No doubt of that...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Free will.

AMEN!!!

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: whosoever will..

While there may be many variations of what men call free will.. the only one that concerns me is is the will which is able to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved.. after hearing the gospel of God concerning His Son..

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

But of course there are many who believe and teach that man can't hear the gospel and then trust in Christ unless God regenerates them first.. thereby rendering the gospel itself powerless to set any person free from the lies and deception of the god of this world.. they essentially make the deception of Satan more powerful than the truth of the gospel.



He is that true light which lighteth every man that comes into the world..

You speak truth and have wisdom...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I believe we have free will over every thing in our lives...except our regeneration and salvation....for that we are wholly dependent upon God's grace which we cannot get ourselves, but must receive through faith, and even the faith we can't drum up on our own, it comes to us as God's gift..

But, who to marry, what job to have, where to live, what car to drive, which forums to join in...God provides principles for us to follow in our lives, and as long as we follow them, we can pretty much pursue life according to our free will.

I'm a girl, so I can't tell you how often I've been a part of "girl talks" wherein one of my girlfriend's agonized over whether "this guy" or "that guy" was God's handpicked husband for her. I've never bought into that...

Why would we have a freewill for all the peddling things in the world, except for the MOST important choice to be made, and that is our eternity. No thanks, I don't believe that my friend...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Time and time again we see in the Old Testament and the new, how God chooses for man to be "obedient" and yet man chooses to "thwart" God's will.God is patient with man and yet man resists God in all different ways. Man is unruly, self-centered, sinful, and disobedient and yet God still shows mercy and love. And that "ultimate" love is, sending His Son to die for us, in order for us to be forgiven and blessed with His mercy...