FRIEND OF GOD AND CHRIST

[jeremiah1five]

John 15:15 (KJV) 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

James 2:23 (KJV) 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Matthew 26:50 (KJV) 50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come?
only two people in Scripture were called “Friend” by God. Abraham and Judas Iscariot. I find this meaningful and significant.
So, let me ask a couple of questions:
From a Reformed point of view in which God elects, calls, and saves merely upon the good pleasure of His Will without any participation of the one being saved (monergism), if God loves someone or God calls “Friend” does He allow such person to perish “in hell” and eternally separated from God ultimately to be cast in the Lake of Fire?
God called Abraham “Friend;” Christ called Judas “Friend,” are there any “Friends” of God and Christ in “hell?”
if God loves ‘you’ He will save ‘you,’ if God doesn’t love ‘you’ He will not save ‘you.’

Ephesians 5:25 (KJV) 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

What say ye?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus chose to call them “friends” at that point. Not a one of them boasted to men that they are the “friend of God.” A person decides who their friend is. The man who decides he is our friend makes a dubious statement at best.

Now what is the measure of a friend of God and Jesus? God/Jesus explains things to you such that you HAVE UNDERSTANDING. The one who says “I don’t understand God” might be saved, but certainly is NOT a friend of God according to Jesus.

I know it’s a heady claim (being a friend of God) and there’s a song where the whole congregation, atheist visitors and all, are encouraged to proudly sing this, but singing a lie doesn’t impress God. My suspicion is those who proudly sing lies about their own greatness are not pleasing to Him. It certainly isn’t worship….well maybe it’s worship of the self. I’m hard pressed to think of a more prideful claim than, “say, did you know that I am a friend of….wait for it….God Almighty. Yup! I’m a friend of God!!!”

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus chose to call them “friends” at that point. Not a one of them boasted to men that they are the “friend of God.” A person decides who their friend is. The man who decides he is our friend makes a dubious statement at best.

Now what is the measure of a friend of God and Jesus? God/Jesus explains things to you such that you HAVE UNDERSTANDING. The one who says “I don’t understand God” might be saved, but certainly is NOT a friend of God according to Jesus.

I know it’s a heady claim (being a friend of God) and there’s a song where the whole congregation, atheist visitors and all, are encouraged to proudly sing this, but singing a lie doesn’t impress God. My suspicion is those who proudly sing lies about their own greatness are not pleasing to Him. It certainly isn’t worship….well maybe it’s worship of the self. I’m hard pressed to think of a more prideful claim than, “say, did you know that I am a friend of….wait for it….God Almighty. Yup! I’m a friend of God!!!”

OK. Great. Now will you answer my questions?

From a Reformed point of view in which God elects, calls, and saves merely upon the good pleasure of His Will without any participation of the one being saved (monergism), if God loves someone or God calls “Friend” does He allow such person to perish “in hell” and eternally separated from God ultimately to be cast in the Lake of Fire?

God called Abraham “Friend;” Christ called Judas “Friend,” are there any “Friends” of God and Christ in “hell?”

And post Scripture to support your statements, please, as I have above.
That's the Christian way, truth, and life.

 

[Vinny37]

The Greek in Mt.26:50 is not the same as in the other verses you cited. It’s hetairos, the same word in Mt.22:12 for the guy immediately tied up and tossed out (like Judas?). With justification, some EVV use ‘comrade’ rather than ‘friend’ (philos).

The other refs. meant, I think, that a certain revelational relationship was/is entered into. Thus Abraham had a revelational upgrade; thus Christians have a revelational upgrade—the disciples before the cross, would become ‘friends’ (Christ's words were proleptic) if they held their obedience to Jesus after his resurrection, and would then have understanding as colleagues (Christians), not mere servants. It does not, incidentally, work the other way, else (as D A Carson pointed out) Jesus would become their friend if he continued to obey them and they would upgrade him to collegial status. Biblical friendship was not buddyism, but an asymmetrical relationship.

I would argue that any whom God/Christ has called friend (the theological sense of philos), have shown their welcome of him/them. Although IMO some Christians (friends) can die backslidden, that they had welcomed Christ shows a basic predisposition towards God himself, which suggests to me that therefore God will ultimately welcome them into everlasting life. Whether Judas ever had an essential welcome of Jesus as messiah, and of God as God, I do not know.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

OK. Great. Now will you answer my questions?

I did. You asked “what say ye?” I responded.

From a Reformed point of view in which God elects, calls, and saves merely upon the good pleasure of His Will without any participation of the one being saved (monergism), if God loves someone or God calls “Friend” does He allow such person to perish “in hell” and eternally separated from God ultimately to be cast in the Lake of Fire?

The reformed view assumes facts not in evidence.

God called Abraham “Friend;” Christ called Judas “Friend,” are there any “Friends” of God and Christ in “hell?”

No, to be a friend of God is not easy.

And post Scripture to support your statements, please, as I have above.
That's the Christian way, truth, and life.

The scriptures were posted at the beginning as to WHO God calls “friend.” No honest man takes this honor upon himself.

 

[WordWhisper’r]

John 15:15 (KJV) 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

James 2:23 (KJV) 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Matthew 26:50 (KJV) 50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come?
only two people in Scripture were called “Friend” by God. Abraham and Judas Iscariot. I find this meaningful and significant.
So, let me ask a couple of questions:
From a Reformed point of view in which God elects, calls, and saves merely upon the good pleasure of His Will without any participation of the one being saved (monergism), if God loves someone or God calls “Friend” does He allow such person to perish “in hell” and eternally separated from God ultimately to be cast in the Lake of Fire?
God called Abraham “Friend;” Christ called Judas “Friend,” are there any “Friends” of God and Christ in “hell?”
if God loves ‘you’ He will save ‘you,’ if God doesn’t love ‘you’ He will not save ‘you.’

Ephesians 5:25 (KJV) 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

What say ye?

From a Reformed point of view in which God elects, calls, and saves merely upon the good pleasure of His Will without any participation of the one being saved

God isn’t “Reformed,” so that doctrine holds no sway over Him.

Chances are pretty good that those who promote this doctrine are, themselves, neither a friend to God, nor saved… based on their own heresy. So, if it’s true, we’re being warned by people who may not actually be saved- that, in itself, makes this a most foolish doctrine. That’s tantamount to an atheist inviting you to church, because in believing that, you’re also expected to believe the Holy Spirit is non-existent in the life of a believer, and that your faith must be directed by the (possibly unsaved) people who tell you that you must believe how they interpret the Bible.
It’s a cult thats gaining much ground in establishing their teaching, covertly, in large & small churches. They literally go into churches, have all biblical language changed in lesson plans changed to match the verbiage that will substantiate their doctrinal rule. (Ex: local ministry suddenly started chanting “uncommon grace,” because it is a buzz phrase that will attract people to a faith where faith is meaningless.
Sorry for the rant.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God isn’t “Reformed,” so that doctrine holds no sway over Him.

Chances are pretty good that those who promote this doctrine are, themselves, neither a friend to God, nor saved… based on their own heresy. So, if it’s true, we’re being warned by people who may not actually be saved- that, in itself, makes this a most foolish doctrine. That’s tantamount to an atheist inviting you to church, because in believing that, you’re also expected to believe the Holy Spirit is non-existent in the life of a believer, and that your faith must be directed by the (possibly unsaved) people who tell you that you must believe how they interpret the Bible.
It’s a cult thats gaining much ground in establishing their teaching, covertly, in large & small churches. They literally go into churches, have all biblical language changed in lesson plans changed to match the verbiage that will substantiate their doctrinal rule. (Ex: local ministry suddenly started chanting “uncommon grace,” because it is a buzz phrase that will attract people to a faith where faith is meaningless.
Sorry for the rant.

The foundation of the Reformed theology is to claim the best for oneself by and large.

 

[WordWhisper’r]

The foundation of the Reformed theology is to claim the best for oneself by and large.

“…to claim for oneself…” Yes, that does seem to fit. Thanks. Got it!

 

[grace2]

Yup! I’m a friend of God!!!”

This is another self-claimed doctrine.

 

[WordWhisper’r]

This is another self-claimed doctrine.

I fear that’s just the way some people say, “I’ve saved.” Same with, “it’s not a religion, it’s a relationship,” and they proceed to teach you religion.
I stop ‘em with a question- “What do you two talk about as friends?” or “Relationships are hard to maintain- what do you guys do together to have such a close relationship? Do you take turns choosing an activity or conversation?”

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Greek in Mt.26:50 is not the same as in the other verses you cited. It’s hetairos, the same word in Mt.22:12 for the guy immediately tied up and tossed out (like Judas?). With justification, some EVV use ‘comrade’ rather than ‘friend’ (philos).

The other refs. meant, I think, that a certain revelational relationship was/is entered into. Thus Abraham had a revelational upgrade; thus Christians have a revelational upgrade—the disciples before the cross, would become ‘friends’ (Christ's words were proleptic) if they held their obedience to Jesus after his resurrection, and would then have understanding as colleagues (Christians), not mere servants. It does not, incidentally, work the other way, else (as D A Carson pointed out) Jesus would become their friend if he continued to obey them and they would upgrade him to collegial status. Biblical friendship was not buddyism, but an asymmetrical relationship.

I would argue that any whom God/Christ has called friend (the theological sense of philos), have shown their welcome of him/them. Although IMO some Christians (friends) can die backslidden, that they had welcomed Christ shows a basic predisposition towards God himself, which suggests to me that therefore God will ultimately welcome them into everlasting life. Whether Judas ever had an essential welcome of Jesus as messiah, and of God as God, I do not know.

Take a read of my post: "ON THE QUESTION OF JUDAS ISCARIOT" in Apologetics.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I did. You asked “what say ye?” I responded.

The reformed view assumes facts not in evidence.

No, to be a friend of God is not easy.

The scriptures were posted at the beginning as to WHO God calls “friend.” No honest man takes this honor upon himself.

The mere calling oneself a "Christian" is 'taking an honor upon oneself.'

To declare that "I know the Creator of the universe" is seen as 'taking an honor upon oneself.'

A great and high honor.

If I said such a thing will you hold it against me?

I hope so.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The foundation of the Reformed theology is to claim the best for oneself by and large.

I'm not Reformed but I claim the best for myself every time I pray.

I WANT EVERYTHING God Promised in His Word.
Even the trials and tribulations because it is through suffering my knowledge of Him increases as I seek Him out in His Word for all my answers.

18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
Ec. 1:18.

There's a reason why I know what I know and WHY you've not heard the things I say and post for thirty years. That's because I only been online posting since 2006 and HERE at CF for only several years.
But be aware: there are MORE like me out there whom God is raising up in His army.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God isn’t “Reformed,” so that doctrine holds no sway over Him.

Sure He is Reformed.
When the Second Person of the Trinity took upon Himself a human BODY He became Re-formed.

Chances are pretty good that those who promote this doctrine are, themselves, neither a friend to God, nor saved… based on their own heresy. So, if it’s true, we’re being warned by people who may not actually be saved- that, in itself, makes this a most foolish doctrine. That’s tantamount to an atheist inviting you to church, because in believing that, you’re also expected to believe the Holy Spirit is non-existent in the life of a believer, and that your faith must be directed by the (possibly unsaved) people who tell you that you must believe how they interpret the Bible.
It’s a cult thats gaining much ground in establishing their teaching, covertly, in large & small churches. They literally go into churches, have all biblical language changed in lesson plans changed to match the verbiage that will substantiate their doctrinal rule. (Ex: local ministry suddenly started chanting “uncommon grace,” because it is a buzz phrase that will attract people to a faith where faith is meaningless.
Sorry for the rant.

Sounds like the Arminian who hold sway in our churches.
Their doctrine needs to be reformed into truth of the Scripture.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I did. You asked “what say ye?” I responded.

The reformed view assumes facts not in evidence.

No, to be a friend of God is not easy.

The scriptures were posted at the beginning as to WHO God calls “friend.” No honest man takes this honor upon himself.

No, this is what you said and it doesn't answer my questions:

QUOTE: Jesus chose to call them “friends” at that point. Not a one of them boasted to men that they are the “friend of God.” A person decides who their friend is. The man who decides he is our friend makes a dubious statement at best.

Now what is the measure of a friend of God and Jesus? God/Jesus explains things to you such that you HAVE UNDERSTANDING. The one who says “I don’t understand God” might be saved, but certainly is NOT a friend of God according to Jesus.

I know it’s a heady claim (being a friend of God) and there’s a song where the whole congregation, atheist visitors and all, are encouraged to proudly sing this, but singing a lie doesn’t impress God. My suspicion is those who proudly sing lies about their own greatness are not pleasing to Him. It certainly isn’t worship….well maybe it’s worship of the self. I’m hard pressed to think of a more prideful claim than, “say, did you know that I am a friend of….wait for it….God Almighty. Yup! I’m a friend of God!!!”

RESPONSE: So, let me ask a couple of questions:
From a Reformed point of view in which God elects, calls, and saves merely upon the good pleasure of His Will without any participation of the one being saved (monergism), if God loves someone or God calls “Friend” does He allow such person to perish “in hell” and eternally separated from God ultimately to be cast in the Lake of Fire?
God called Abraham “Friend;” Christ called Judas “Friend,” are there any “Friends” of God and Christ in “hell?”

Care to NOW answer these questions FROM A REFORMED POINT OF VIEW?

 

[WordWhisper’r]

Their doctrine needs to be reformed into truth of the Scripture.

No one has, or has even needed to, reform doctrine. They repackage it with different words, but church-goers aren’t really concerned about anything but what works for them… if they don’t like one doctrine, they just move to another that they like better, or group of people, or programs, etc.
Everyone has their ‘angle’ on presenting scripture. It’s all a diversion… does anybody really think that the understanding of scripture can come from a bunch of pulpits that can’t even agree on biblical interpretation… and while we all take up arms to defend our personal doctrines, we neglect what God told us to do… if fact, the last church I entered had a preacher who complained about people asking for help… he decided they must be a member of the church or demonstrate that they’re saved or the church will deny their request.

None of it is from God, just the occasional mention of words from the Bible.

 

[grace2]

I fear that’s just the way some people say, “I’ve saved.” Same with, “it’s not a religion, it’s a relationship,” and they proceed to teach you religion.
I stop ‘em with a question- “What do you two talk about as friends?” or “Relationships are hard to maintain- what do you guys do together to have such a close relationship? Do you take turns choosing an activity or conversation?”

????????

 

[grace2]

I fear that’s just the way some people say, “I’ve saved.” Same with, “it’s not a religion, it’s a relationship,” and they proceed to teach you religion.
I stop ‘em with a question- “What do you two talk about as friends?” or “Relationships are hard to maintain- what do you guys do together to have such a close relationship? Do you take turns choosing an activity or conversation?”

what is your relationship with God and Jesus to you?

 

[WordWhisper’r]

what is your relationship with God and Jesus to you?

Do you believe that God will grant the requests you make in the Spirit?

 

[grace2]

Do you believe that God will grant the requests you make in the Spirit?

If it is within His will.