Fruits and Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

[Blake]

The fruits and the gifts of the Holy Spirit...

... what IS the difference, anyway?!

The gifts of the Spirit of God are freely given!

Fruits are the result of growing! Glory to God.

Maybe for some Christians throughout the ages there was a spiritual switch that got flipped, and suddenly the man found himself completely patient, completely kind, completely in self control, full of joy and peace and kindness and goodness! The rest of us have to SEW, TILL, CULTIVATE! Put our hands to the plow!

You are saved by grace. Don't fret that you have not yet achieved the fruit you desire, but make it your obligation to earnestly seek after it.

I felt that someone needed to know that.

For the sake of making a discussion out of this, what operations of the Holy Spirit are at work in your life? Which ones are lacking? I myself suffer from lack of patience and self-control. I am getting better at self-control, the patience hasn't improved very much. I am putting my hands to the plow and praying to God for an increase in that fruit when He sends the rain.

 

[Cturtle]

It's funny that you posted this today, as i was just listening to a pastor talk about the gifts vs. the fruits.
The more that we abide in the One True Vine, and meditate the Word, the easier it becomes to walk as the Spirit wants. Because it is the Father within us that does the work. Faith is one gift that God has given me and is developing. Now walking in love with my fiancè is a tad harder. But as you said, I will keep watering the ground of my spirit, with the Word of God and it becomes easier!
Blessings

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Maybe for some Christians throughout the ages there was a spiritual switch that got flipped, and suddenly the man found himself completely patient, completely kind, completely in self control, full of joy and peace and kindness and goodness! The rest of us have to SEW, TILL, CULTIVATE! Put our hands to the plow!

That is the result of the curse. What came so easy to mankind before the fall is now difficult as illustrated in Adam's struggle with the creation to bring forth it's fruit, and the labor of the woman in bringing forth the fruit of the womb.

I myself suffer from lack of patience and self-control. I am getting better at self-control, the patience hasn't improved very much. I am putting my hands to the plow and praying to God for an increase in that fruit when He sends the rain.

What I have found is the key to the fruit of the Spirit is keeping the garden of the heart weeded. Our struggle is with the weeds that choke the fruit, not with making the fruit grow. That will happen with amazing ease all by itself when the garden is kept up. The curse of Adam on us all is to struggle with the thorns and the thistles of jealousy, envy, hatred, etc. that choke out the fruit of love, patience, kindness, etc.

 

[Jesse]

The fruits and the gifts of the Holy Spirit...

... what IS the difference, anyway?!

The gifts of the Spirit of God are freely given!

Fruits are the result of growing! Glory to God.

Maybe for some Christians throughout the ages there was a spiritual switch that got flipped, and suddenly the man found himself completely patient, completely kind, completely in self control, full of joy and peace and kindness and goodness! The rest of us have to SEW, TILL, CULTIVATE! Put our hands to the plow!

You are saved by grace. Don't fret that you have not yet achieved the fruit you desire, but make it your obligation to earnestly seek after it.

I felt that someone needed to know that.

For the sake of making a discussion out of this, what operations of the Holy Spirit are at work in your life? Which ones are lacking? I myself suffer from lack of patience and self-control. I am getting better at self-control, the patience hasn't improved very much. I am putting my hands to the plow and praying to God for an increase in that fruit when He sends the rain.

I have a difficult time with forgiving certain people and with anger. It's difficult to forgive when what needs to be forgiven, continues to happen, so that I have it in my head if I forgive then it's also accepting that behavior as OK.
I have anger probably because it's easier to feel that emotion, rather than facing up to other feelings - hurt, rejection. I used to think my anger was righteous, but now I can see it's a stumbling block.

I've been praying that God will help me forgive - completely - and the feelings masked by my anger will be healed.

 

[Cturtle]

I have a difficult time with forgiving certain people and with anger. It's difficult to forgive when what needs to be forgiven, continues to happen, so that I have it in my head if I forgive then it's also accepting that behavior as OK.
I have anger probably because it's easier to feel that emotion, rather than facing up to other feelings - hurt, rejection. I used to think my anger was righteous, but now I can see it's a stumbling block.

I've been praying that God will help me forgive - completely - and the feelings masked by my anger will be healed.

Jesse, i understand your thoughts, that if i forgive it as if i am saying that it is ok. However may i suggest another way to look at it? By Faith you are obeying God, by forgiving, and not saying it is ok for that person to behave that way, but that you are telling God that it is more important for you to be obedient to Him, trusting Him to discipline or take vengeance on your behalf. That leaves the door open for God to move on your behalf in many other areas, because you were obedient to Him. And it cuts the devices of the enemy off, because whatever that person was doing, is no longer a stumbling block in your life. Just something to think about.

 

[Karl]

I have a difficult time with forgiving certain people and with anger. It's difficult to forgive when what needs to be forgiven, continues to happen, so that I have it in my head if I forgive then it's also accepting that behavior as OK.
I have anger probably because it's easier to feel that emotion, rather than facing up to other feelings - hurt, rejection. I used to think my anger was righteous, but now I can see it's a stumbling block.

I've been praying that God will help me forgive - completely - and the feelings masked by my anger will be healed.

Me too Jesse, I struggled with forgiving when people kept doing the same thing over and over, here is what the Lord taught me from the story in Matt 18:21-35.

God doesn't forgive people unless they come to Him first and ask for forgiveness, so it would not be just of Him to require us to do something He himself doesn't do, read the story, both debtors asked to be forgiven.

So when someone sins against us, we go to Father and tell Him we want to forgive that person, confess our sin of anger or resentment and 1 Jn 1:9 assures us we are forgiven, however that doesn't settle it between the us and the one who offended, they still need to come to us and ask for forgiveness, if the do and we forgive them, that's fine, but if we don't then we will be spanked.

If the person is a believer and we have forgiven them before Father then Mat 5:23, 24 will kick in in their lives, if they obey and come to us and ask for forgiveness they will be able to worship Father and have Communion with Him, if they don't obey the Communion with Father will be cut off and they will become very dry, until they obey.

If the person is a nonbeliever then we forgive them as Jesus did on the Cross and pray for their souls, if they are never born again then when they stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement, their book will be opened where the offense against us is recorded.

 

[Cturtle]

Me too Jesse, I struggled with forgiving when people kept doing the same thing over and over, here is what the Lord taught me from the story in Matt 18:21-35.

God doesn't forgive people unless they come to Him first and ask for forgiveness, so it would not be just of Him to require us to do something He himself doesn't do, read the story, both debtors asked to be forgiven.

So when someone sins against us, we go to Father and tell Him we want to forgive that person, confess our sin of anger or resentment and 1 Jn 1:9 assures us we are forgiven, however that doesn't settle it between the us and the one who offended, they still need to come to us and ask for forgiveness, if the do and we forgive them, that's fine, but if we don't then we will be spanked.

If the person is a believer and we have forgiven them before Father then Mat 5:23, 24 will kick in in their lives, if they obey and come to us and ask for forgiveness they will be able to worship Father and have Communion with Him, if they don't obey the Communion with Father will be cut off and they will become very dry, until they obey.

If the person is a nonbeliever then we forgive them as Jesus did on the Cross and pray for their souls, if they are never born again then when they stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement, their book will be opened where the offense against us is recorded.

Karl, what about Jesus' command to forgive in Mark 11:25...and other places

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Karl hi,
Without dragging this out into a debate can you please explain to me how you come up with this...

God doesn't forgive people unless they come to Him first and ask for forgiveness, so it would not be just of Him to require us to do something He himself doesn't do, read the story, both debtors asked to be forgiven.

So when someone sins against us, we go to Father and tell Him we want to forgive that person, confess our sin of anger or resentment and 1 Jn 1:9 assures us we are forgiven, however that doesn't settle it between the us and the one who offended, they still need to come to us and ask for forgiveness, if the do and we forgive them, that's fine, but if we don't then we will be spanked.


God has never once taught us anywhere that someone Has to come ask us for forgivness.
We are to walk in Love and Forgivness. We are to forgive.......end of story...we then can pray for them and bless them but it is NOT for us to demand them to come to us and ask forgivness.

Again Karl I am not looking for one of those back and forth debatesI have seen in this forum. Just want you to enlighten me to where we are taught this....
Have a great week end
jim

 

[Blake]

I have a difficult time with forgiving certain people and with anger. It's difficult to forgive when what needs to be forgiven, continues to happen, so that I have it in my head if I forgive then it's also accepting that behavior as OK.
I have anger probably because it's easier to feel that emotion, rather than facing up to other feelings - hurt, rejection. I used to think my anger was righteous, but now I can see it's a stumbling block.

I've been praying that God will help me forgive - completely - and the feelings masked by my anger will be healed.

He will answer that prayer. It will take work from you too though brother.

It isn't accepting a behavior as OK if you forgive someone for it. I can understand why you or anyone would think that (I used to think it too), forgiving someone is more for your own benefit than it is for theirs. There's an old proverb that says holding resentment in your heart is like holding a hot coal in your hand, waiting for the other man to get burned. Isn't it true? The sins they commit against you they are so usually oblivious to or simply don't care, while we experience the consequences of not forgiving... it eats at you.

When I was a boy I was sexually molested by a family member. It shook my whole family up, my poor Mother has never learned how to deal with it properly. For a long time I held anger and darkness in my heart over this person -- who wouldn't, right? But holding onto something like that for so long hurt me just as bad -- if not worse -- than the molestation itself. I let that anger turn me into a person I didn't want to be, I let the alienation I felt from being stained by that sin against me turn me into a very rebellious person... you know, drugs, alcohol, nihilism. Those sorts of things.

It took me awhile, but I learned to forgive him. I prayed on it for a good long time. Folks might not believe me when I say I forgave him, but I did, and I have. I've hugged his neck, he has eaten at my table. My family has alienated him to this day and I can't fix that (even though I've tried), but he knows that I don't hold that debt over his head anymore. He may still hold that burden inside, perhaps, but I no longer hold one, and I hope that God will forgive him and draw him to repentance and uprightness.

God has taken me a long way with forgiveness, and taught me that it's not necessarily for my "enemies", but like I said, it's for me. There's peace, true peace, in having no sins committed against you held to memory, burning you up in your gut, darkening your countenance. It also helps to recognize that we too are repeat offenders of God's mercy.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Blake Hi,
I just wanted to say I am so very proud of you and this post of yours is so spot on you could say you nailed it with one blow of the hammer. lol
I wish more people would learn this and put it into practice. It is exactly what we are taught..

Jesse Hi,
What Blake is telling you is very important and something that would push you up into a higher level in your walk with Christ..OBTW Jesse..........it will free the soul...........big time.......
Jim

 

[Karl]

Karl, what about Jesus' command to forgive in Mark 11:25...and other places

Isn't that covered in paragraph three?

 

[Karl]

Karl hi,
Without dragging this out into a debate can you please explain to me how you come up with this...

God doesn't forgive people unless they come to Him first and ask for forgiveness, so it would not be just of Him to require us to do something He himself doesn't do, read the story, both debtors asked to be forgiven.

So when someone sins against us, we go to Father and tell Him we want to forgive that person, confess our sin of anger or resentment and 1 Jn 1:9 assures us we are forgiven, however that doesn't settle it between the us and the one who offended, they still need to come to us and ask for forgiveness, if the do and we forgive them, that's fine, but if we don't then we will be spanked.


God has never once taught us anywhere that someone Has to come ask us for forgivness.
We are to walk in Love and Forgivness. We are to forgive.......end of story...we then can pray for them and bless them but it is NOT for us to demand them to come to us and ask forgivness.

Again Karl I am not looking for one of those back and forth debatesI have seen in this forum. Just want you to enlighten me to where we are taught this....
Have a great week end
jim

Me too, I'm not into debates.

So I ask you, did Father forgive you before you asked Him too, don't you agree Jesus paid for the sins of all humanity on the Cross, but we still have to come before Him and ask to be forgiven, if it wasn't like that wouldn't that be heresy of universalism?

I'm sorry, but I have to ask this, did you read ALL of what I posted, I never said we were to demand them to forgive us, please read what I write and don't add to what I have written, I said that after we have forgiven them before Father, Father will work in their lives to come to us and ask to be forgiven, ...you mean to tell me you have never offended someone and the Lord has put it on your heart to go and be reconciled with that person?

Here is a question for you, who/what do you attribute it to that causes our prideful hearts to be convicted and ask for forgiveness?

And what do you do with this?

A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: Pro 18:19

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Me too, I'm not into debates.


I'm sorry, but I have to ask this, did you read ALL of what I posted, I never said we were to demand them to forgive us, please read what I write and don't add to what I have written, I said that after we have forgiven them before Father, Father will work in their lives to come to us and ask to be forgiven, ...you mean to tell me you have never offended someone and the Lord has put it on your heart to go and be reconciled with that person?

In Blue is what you said.....
So when someone sins against us, we go to Father and tell Him we want to forgive that person, confess our sin of anger or resentment and 1 Jn 1:9 assures us we are forgiven, however that doesn't settle it between the us and the one who offended, they still need to come to us and ask for forgiveness, if the do and we forgive them, that's fine, but if we don't then we will be spanked.
So Karl yes I did read your post word for word several times...I do not add or twist what others said. Now I may MISUNDERSTAND but that can happen to any one...Right..lol Any way I wrote out what is in blue here and under scored........now those are your words....did I miss something ?

I also just put your nerw questions in blue to make it easier.. I hope that is ok.....Just found the color buttons and such a few post back now that I am on a bigger screen.. lol

Here is a question for you, who/what do you attribute it to that causes our prideful hearts to be convicted and ask for forgiveness?
The Holy Spirit of course..... I have not shut him out as some have. The word of God does this as well but then again it is the Holy Spirit I believe that points it out...
And what do you do with this?

Repent and stop what ever it was and take off from where I missed it or where I am now....
But Karl, that is not the same as saying the other person who offended still needs to come and ask forgivness from us
A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: Pro 18:19

 

[bluegirl]

That is the result of the curse. What came so easy to mankind before the fall is now difficult as illustrated in Adam's struggle with the creation to bring forth it's fruit, and the labor of the woman in bringing forth the fruit of the womb.



What I have found is the key to the fruit of the Spirit is keeping the garden of the heart weeded. Our struggle is with the weeds that choke the fruit, not with making the fruit grow. That will happen with amazing ease all by itself when the garden is kept up. The curse of Adam on us all is to struggle with the thorns and the thistles of jealousy, envy, hatred, etc. that choke out the fruit of love, patience, kindness, etc.

In my experience the struggle is only to endure. Jealousy and hatred and envy seemed to go far away once I realized what a poor thing I was. Then it was just obey the Lord and be patient. And practice love in the meanwhile, while waiting.

 

[Karl]

Okay, now we are communicating, I'll answer in red.

I'm sorry, but I have to ask this, did you read ALL of what I posted, I never said we were to demand them to forgive us, please read what I write and don't add to what I have written, I said that after we have forgiven them before Father, Father will work in their lives to come to us and ask to be forgiven, ...you mean to tell me you have never offended someone and the Lord has put it on your heart to go and be reconciled with that person?

In Blue is what you said.....
So when someone sins against us, we go to Father and tell Him we want to forgive that person, confess our sin of anger or resentment and 1 Jn 1:9 assures us we are forgiven, however that doesn't settle it between the us and the one who offended, they still need to come to us and ask for forgiveness, if the do and we forgive them, that's fine, but if we don't then we will be spanked.

So Karl yes I did read your post word for word several times...I do not add or twist what others said. Now I may MISUNDERSTAND but that can happen to any one...Right..lol Any way I wrote out what is in blue here and under scored........now those are your words....did I miss something ?

This, copied from your post #8
We are to walk in Love and Forgivness. We are to forgive.......end of story...we then can pray for them and bless them but it is NOT for us to demand them to come to us and ask forgivness.

I didn't say that, ...you did, but I forgive you.

I also just put your nerw questions in blue to make it easier.. I hope that is ok.....Just found the color buttons and such a few post back now that I am on a bigger screen.. lol

Here is a question for you, who/what do you attribute it to that causes our prideful hearts to be convicted and ask for forgiveness?

The Holy Spirit of course..... I have not shut him out as some have. The word of God does this as well but then again it is the Holy Spirit I believe that points it out...

So then, you agree it's the Holy Spirit through the Word that convicts us and we have to ask Father for forgiveness first before we are forgiven, and then isn't it just of Him to not require us of something He himself doesn't do?

And what do you do with this?

Repent and stop what ever it was and take off from where I missed it or where I am now....

Proverbs 18:19 is teaching us the reason the brother is offended is because of hurt feelings, isn't that pride, now if I plug myself into the position of the offended brother, I'm sinning because of my pride, hence the need to confess my sin before Father to restore communion and tell Him I forgive the person that has sinned against me, okay, do you see that, ...however, the other person needs to go to Father to restore their communion and then come to me and ask me to forgive him.

But Karl, that is not the same as saying the other person who offended still needs to come and ask forgivness from us

What do you say Jesus is teaching here?

Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. Luk 17:3, 4

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Karl,
Brother repents and rebuke him and all, is as you posted.....I agree .....BUT not all offences are from a brother and therefore you can NOT just go around rebuking people who offend you when they do not know Jesus. What I mean is this...
unsaved person wont take a rebuke such as a brother should....for the most part.. They tend to get defencive or mean......Now then....if you truly begin to understand the comandment to walk in love (not saying that you dont for you is any one ) then you learn to forgive no matter what and and love them even as the Father has forgiven them and loved them...... These are two different scenarios. Does this make sense.

 

[Karl]

Karl,
Brother repents and rebuke him and all, is as you posted.....I agree .....BUT not all offences are from a brother and therefore you can NOT just go around rebuking people who offend you when they do not know Jesus. What I mean is this...
unsaved person wont take a rebuke such as a brother should....for the most part.. They tend to get defencive or mean......Now then....if you truly begin to understand the comandment to walk in love (not saying that you dont for you is any one ) then you learn to forgive no matter what and and love them even as the Father has forgiven them and loved them...... These are two different scenarios. Does this make sense.

Yes, ...and isn't that what I said to Jesse in my last paragraph of post #6?

If the person is a nonbeliever then we forgive them as Jesus did on the Cross and pray for their souls, if they are never born again then when they stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement, their book will be opened where the offense against us is recorded.

Lord bless you.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Karl
May God bless you far and beyound anything you could ever dream or think or ask of Him

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Growing in the fruit of the Spirit is what enpowered me to walk in the gifts of the Spirit.

I started out in a Full Gospel church that emphasized the baptism in the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit. Well, I quickly realized that I'm not particularly gifted and didn't fit in very well. What I did learn in time was the gifts operate in far less dramatic ways than some churches insist. And because of that, they often operate without us even realizing it. But, most importantly, I learned the power of the gifts comes from the desire within to see other people healed, instructed, encouraged, and helped. If you want to walk in amazing gifts love others with the love of God. Then out of your desire to see them healed, set free, helped, etc. your gift(s) will rise up within you full of faith and ready to go to work toward fulfilling the goal of love that is inside of you that wants to help somebody else.

 

[bluegirl]

Growing in the fruit of the Spirit is what enpowered me to walk in the gifts of the Spirit.

I started out in a Full Gospel church that emphasized the baptism in the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit. Well, I quickly realized that I'm not particularly gifted and didn't fit in very well. What I did learn in time was the gifts operate in far less dramatic ways than some churches insist. And because of that, they often operate without us even realizing it. But, most importantly, I learned the power of the gifts comes from the desire within to see other people healed, instructed, encouraged, and helped. If you want to walk in amazing gifts love others with the love of God. Then out of your desire to see them healed, set free, helped, etc. your gift(s) will rise up within you full of faith and ready to go to work toward fulfilling the goal of love that is inside of you that wants to help somebody else.

I like this, that the gifts do not have to be ostentatious or showy. Also that we don't always know that the spirit works in us or HOW it does its works. We are finite humans. God may do things in and through us of which we only learn over time. In His time.Desire is another way of saying LOVE. When we love the things of the world and cannot let them go that is one thing. But when we leave all that to follow Jesus, we learn to LOVE one another and desire the things of the LORD for each other. And that is just my way of summarizing and agreeing with what you said.