Futurists please

[Eugene]

Bear with me please. Here is verse 26 (revised). Does it properly represent the futurist view?

After the sixty-two weeks Messiah (Jesus) shall be cut off, but not for himself; and the people (Roman troops in ad 70) of the prince who is to come (Antichrist, from revived roman empire) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined.
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And here is verse 27 (with a time gap after 26a).

He (future Antichrist) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week (3½ yrs after his treaty) shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. (temple desecrated) And on the wing of abominations (situated in a wing of the temple) shall be one who makes desolate, (Antichrists abomination) even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. (judgement on Antichrist)
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Any suggested improvements welcomed.

There are many that believe that there is an unfulfilled week of Daniel's 490 years, but that is not so; those years were all blessings to Israel as described in Daniel 9:24. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Next when we come to Daniel 9:26 we want to identify the prince there as Satan, and in Daniel 9:27 his representative will be the antichrist described as the little horn of Daniel Chapter Seven. Do not confuse the antichrist with the little horn of Daniel Chapter Eight who is the false prophet.

 

[reba]

Why do you say that? I see no scripture that supports it.

how about John 3:16? or the book of Hebrews ?

God sacrificed His Son how does a bull compare?

 

[John 8:32]

how about John 3:16? or the book of Hebrews ?

God sacrificed His Son how does a bull compare?

I understand that, but why does an animal sacrifice desecrate the temple? Is not the Old Covenant still in effect for Judah?

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

And will vanish at Christ's return.

The Diaglott has it...

Hebrews 8:13 By the to say new, he has declared old the first; that but becoming old and advancing
in age, near disappearing.

Dr. Bullinger has it...

vanish away = vanishing

Albert Barnes...

Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away - This is a general truth which would be undisputed, and which Paul applies to the case under consideration. An old house, or garment; an ancient tree; an aged man, all have indications that they are soon to disappear. They cannot be expected to remain long. The very fact of their growing old is an indication that they will soon be gone. So Paul says it was with the dispensation that was represented as old. It had symptoms of decay. It had lost the vigour which it had when it was fresh and new; it had every mark of an antiquated and a declining system; and it had been expressly declared that a new and more perfect dispensation was to be given to the world. Paul concluded, therefore, that the Jewish system must soon disappear.

Now we know the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, but Judaism was not replaced by Christianity, Jewry will not accept Christ until He comes and forcibly converts them...

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Notice these verses are looking forward, not back.

 

[Sinthesis]

Now we know the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, but Judaism was not replaced by Christianity, Jewry will not accept Christ until He comes and forcibly converts them...

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Notice these verses are looking forward, not back.

Forcibly converts them? That doesn't sound like Christ.
Paul's forward includes much of our back.

 

[reba]

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I do not read any exceptions in John. I doubt you mean for your words to read as an insult to Him but they sure do to me. Such a low view of the Cross that the blood of bulls is better?

 

[digging]

Dear John,

You asked a very good question, " Is not the Old Covenant still in effect for Judah?" I agree with reba, No it is not, even IF Judah does not understand the greatest offering has been given even in their behalf, Chist is for all.

Digging

 

[John 8:32]

Forcibly converts them? That doesn't sound like Christ.
Paul's forward includes much of our back.

Sure it does...

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Plagues are poured out on men to what purpose? To drive them to their knees in repentance. There is no willing repentance portrayed here.

What do you think causes these to repent and turn to God?

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.



Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

OK, you don't want to keep the Feast, don't want to obey? Fine, you'll have plagues and drought until you do.

Yes, in the Tribulation and Millenium, some will have to be forced into repentance. Every knee will bow, even if Christ has to break some, of course then He will heal them and show them the way, but some will be like the mule you have to break a 2x4 over its head to get it's attention.

 

[John 8:32]

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I do not read any exceptions in John. I doubt you mean for your words to read as an insult to Him but they sure do to me. Such a low view of the Cross that the blood of bulls is better?

What was the purpose of the blood of bulls and goats?

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The blood of bulls and goats taught the lesson that sin requires blood and they looked forward to the sacrifice of Christ. They were a bloody reminder that the wages of sin is death and someone will pay that debt. The Jews have been blinded to this truth...

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Notice that verse 26 looks forward? Israel is blinded to the truth of the Savior and His perfect sacrifice, so they offer the blood of bulls and goats looking forward.

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

No, Christ does not find it offensive that they cannot accept Him, He has blinded their eyes at the present so the fulness of the gentiles can come in. He has concluded them all in unbelief that He may have mercy on them.

 

[Sinthesis]

Sure it does...

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Plagues are poured out on men to what purpose? To drive them to their knees in repentance. There is no willing repentance portrayed here.

What do you think causes these to repent and turn to God?

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.



Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

OK, you don't want to keep the Feast, don't want to obey? Fine, you'll have plagues and drought until you do.

Yes, in the Tribulation and Millenium, some will have to be forced into repentance. Every knee will bow, even if Christ has to break some, of course then He will heal them and show them the way, but some will be like the mule you have to break a 2x4 over its head to get it's attention.

You are confusing repentance with conversion. They are not the same. Repentance is necessary to become converted to Christianity, but repentance does not always lead to Christianity. Grace is a gift, not a punishment.

 

[reba]

What was the purpose of the blood of bulls and goats?

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The blood of bulls and goats taught the lesson that sin requires blood and they looked forward to the sacrifice of Christ. They were a bloody reminder that the wages of sin is death and someone will pay that debt. The Jews have been blinded to this truth...

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Notice that verse 26 looks forward? Israel is blinded to the truth of the Savior and His perfect sacrifice, so they offer the blood of bulls and goats looking forward.

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

No, Christ does not find it offensive that they cannot accept Him, He has blinded their eyes at the present so the fulness of the gentiles can come in. He has concluded them all in unbelief that He may have mercy on them.

Do you know of one Jew who is not blinded?

 

[Sinthesis]

Blindness in part, not totally blind.

 

[JLB]

There are many that believe that there is an unfulfilled week of Daniel's 490 years, but that is not so; those years were all blessings to Israel as described in Daniel 9:24. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Next when we come to Daniel 9:26 we want to identify the prince there as Satan, and in Daniel 9:27 his representative will be the antichrist described as the little horn of Daniel Chapter Seven. Do not confuse the antichrist with the little horn of Daniel Chapter Eight who is the false prophet.

and to bring in everlasting righteousness

Not here yet!


JLB

 

[JLB]

39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:39-43


...Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

This event marks the beginning of what Daniel spoke of as "Everlasting Righteousness"!

So, any "righteousness" that occurs before this event is certainly not "Everlasting Righteousness".


Therefore it is clear that all of Daniels 70 weeks have not been fulfilled!


JLB

 

[Jesus'sGirl]

I posted this before but:

I am a futurist since revelation is about the last days and Jesus has not come back yet. We are not reigning with Him in a utopian society yet and satan is not bound yet. The stars haven't fallen or the other heavenly signs. The resurrection of the dead hasn't happened yet. God's wrath nor the tribulation. Nor the new heavens or new earth.