FYI Mormonism teaches its people to be anti-Christian

[proveallthings]

The Book of Mormon is very sacred to me.

Why?

For the same reason the Bible is sacred to me and you. It is sacred scripture from God.

When someone makes a public statement about what it contains that is not true

The little I have read of this thread shows different ones saying the doctrine of Jesus and Satan being brothers is not true, and you seemingly defending it. Can you prove it, and are the following statements true?

Devil
A. The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
B. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
C. A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193;Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8).

God
A. God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).

Jesus
A. The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
B. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163;Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

Yes, the doctrine and the statements are true, but are not all taught in the Book of Mormon.

And yes, I can prove that the Bible teaches that Satan and Jesus are sons of the same Father.

Eph. 4:6 says that God is the Father of all, meaning that all intelligent beings were created by God and are His spirit children. That would include Satan and all the angels and humans. Isaiah teaches that Lucifer, or Satan, is a fallen angel. In John 20:17, Jesus tells Mary that He is ascending to His Father and God, which is her Father and God. So, mortal humans share the same Father as Jesus. That makes Jesus our brother. If God the Father is the Father and God of Jesus and Humans, I would say that is a strong inference that he would also be the Father of all angels, including the fallen ones. I don’t know how the Bible could be more clear.

 

[proveallthings]

A lot of what you say here goes along with what I define as a "belief in a Lillie God versus a Belief in the God of the Bible that man cannot thwart." Mormons teach of a "little God' Who is unable to transmit and preserve His Word or even inspire men to translate His Word into other languages, as the centuries progress. The dark ages of the Catholic Church did not ever "take away" from God's True Word and it's really up to us to allow the Holy Spirit to lead us into "all Truth" as Jesus Promises in John 16:13.

You have a very distorted view of the God Mormons believe in then. We do not believe in anything about God that would make him “little†that man can thwart. You have a vivid imagination, but you have imagined wrong.

Protestants believe in a God that would allow His church to become corrupted in the dark ages, so why is that different?

Mormons believe that God allows humans to act according to their desires, yet never allows their choices to corrupt His plan. Everything that happened with the church and the scriptures happened according to His plan and even according to what His prophets prophesied.

When you ask why God would allow scripture to be lost and then bring it back or reveal more at different times, consider the principle taught by Isaiah, that God teaches us line upon line, precept upon precept. He gives us milk before meat. Why Jesus taught in parables. The whole period of the reformation was to prepare the world for the prophesied restoration of the fulness of His gospel. It is all part of His glorious plan.

As to the other supposed worthy Books that are not included in the Canon of Scripture----relevance is always a factor and I always feel that one must learn 66 books of the Bible first before one thinks one must ask for more Scripture. But then, as they say "the more one knows about Scripture the more one realizes he has yet to know" because not only does Scripture interpret Scripture but there is a unique harmony in the Old an New Testaments where the Old testifies of the New and visa- versa.

So do you also believe that one must completely learn the Old Testament before they look at the New Testament? Do you believe that one must have a complete knowledge of the four Gospels before they read any of the other books of the New Testament? If not, why? When you consider the why, why wouldn’t that same reason be a good reason for accepting other scripture from God?

There is also a wonderful and unique harmony in the Bible, the Book of Mormon and other latter-day scripture.

 

[proveallthings]

Yes, it is true that Jesus and Lucifer are sons of the same Father

Your blasphemy is well noted, and you are also wrong in saying that the Bible teaches that.

Please supply the book, chapter and verses IN CONTEXT that you believe supports this blasphemy in the Bible.

Where does the Bible call the teaching of Satan and Jesus being brothers, blasphemy? I would be careful if I were you, in calling something blasphemy that the Bible does not call blasphemy. Remember what Saul of Tarsus considered blasphemy as he participated in the execution of the saints of his day. He did it all in the name of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, based on his interpretation of the same scriptures that the people he was persecuting believed in.

 

[Eugene]

I would say that is a strong inference that he would also be the Father of all angels, including the fallen ones.

Exactly how such doctrines are born: "I would say." Using the context of God being the Father of all including Satan, would John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil" suffice to show you a difference? Are unbelievers God's children or creation? Using your bible how does one become a child of God? You sir are here to promote a religion that is not of God, and the very thought of human reasoning that God was once man as we are is complete blasphemy against all that is Christendom. If you want to learn God's will for your life lay down that book of Mormon and read only the bible; they do not agree. Neither were Joseph Smith's writings truth, or the supposed prophets that followed him. Again Paul stated in Colossians 1:25 "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God."

 

[Free]

Yes, the doctrine and the statements are true, but are not all taught in the Book of Mormon.

Then how do you know they are all true?

And yes, I can prove that the Bible teaches that Satan and Jesus are sons of the same Father.

Eph. 4:6 says that God is the Father of all, meaning that all intelligent beings were created by God and are His spirit children. That would include Satan and all the angels and humans. Isaiah teaches that Lucifer, or Satan, is a fallen angel. In John 20:17, Jesus tells Mary that He is ascending to His Father and God, which is her Father and God. So, mortal humans share the same Father as Jesus. That makes Jesus our brother. If God the Father is the Father and God of Jesus and Humans, I would say that is a strong inference that he would also be the Father of all angels, including the fallen ones. I don’t know how the Bible could be more clear.

You are begging the question. Do not take one or two verses as though they form a complete understanding of a matter or form a doctrine. Context is everything.

Firstly, when Eph 4:6 states that God, the Creator, is "the Father of all," it implies he is the Father of all that is created. Clearly when we consider the larger context of the NT, we can see that Jesus is not created (John 1:1-3; 1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:16-17). To say that Jesus is created is to be in direct contradiction of these passages, and others. The Father is uncreated and the Son is uncreated. This is what the Bible clearly shows.

Secondly, when the Bible says that God is "the Father," it in no way implies that he is our literal father in the sense of begetting or procreating. We are adpoted children:

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, (ESV)

Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!" (ESV)

We are created beings, not procreated, as far as God is concerned.

 

[By Grace]

Where does the Bible call the teaching of Satan and Jesus being brothers, blasphemy? I would be careful if I were you, in calling something blasphemy that the Bible does not call blasphemy. Remember what Saul of Tarsus considered blasphemy as he participated in the execution of the saints of his day. He did it all in the name of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, based on his interpretation of the same scriptures that the people he was persecuting believed in.

I would be careful not to get caught in a rhetorical acrobatic routine. You may just twist something out of joint.

Case in point:

Yes, it is true that Jesus and Lucifer are sons of the same Father

Therefore I replied:

Please supply the book, chapter and verses IN CONTEXT that you believe supports this blasphemy in the Bible.

You made the blasphemous assertion, therefore it is up to you to prove that the blasphemous is true, and taught in the Bible. All you can come up is stuff from the easily disproved Book of Abraham as a source:

Abraham 3:27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.
​

So you know, I do not play rhetorical games, PAT. In fact I am very surprised that you go through rhetorical gymnastics to make a specious point. Do you believe that you would not get caught?

 

[proveallthings]

Please supply the book, chapter and verses IN CONTEXT that you believe supports this blasphemy in the Bible.

You made the blasphemous assertion, therefore it is up to you to prove that the blasphemous is true, and taught in the Bible.

I thought you would read my post #21. Please see it for the Biblical reference. I would like to see how you can dance around John 20:17. It says that Mary and Jesus share the same Father and God in the same way. That proves that the Bible teaches that Jesus is indeed created and has a father. The same Father as us humans. I don't see how the Bible can be any more clear on this.

 

[By Grace]

I thought you would read my post #21. Please see it for the Biblical reference. I would like to see how you can dance around John 20:17. It says that Mary and Jesus share the same Father and God in the same way. That proves that the Bible teaches that Jesus is indeed created and has a father. The same Father as us humans. I don't see how the Bible can be any more clear on this.

AS USUAL the Mormons cannot support any of their heresies without wrenching a verse out of its CONTEXT in order to try to support something completely contrary to what is happening if anyone reads the verses in context. Let's look at the CONTEXT of John 20 :17

John 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

​

Here is a commentary:

20:17 The Greek reads literally, “Don’t touch me,” but the sense is “Stop clinging to me.” It’s not that there was something dangerous about Jesus’ body (or that it was not really a body) but that Jesus had not come back to be with Mary permanently in bodily form. These were temporary appearances en route to His ascension and were not to be prolonged.
​

Cabal, T., Brand, C. O., Clendenen, E. R., Copan, P., Moreland, J., & Powell, D. (2007). The Apologetics Study Bible: Real Questions, Straight Answers, Stronger Faith (1615–1616). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

What you SEEM to not understand is the fact that Jesus was not teaching theology to Mary; rather He was explaining the RELATIONSHIP that He had (and that Mary shared) to God, his Father. In no way does Jesus deny his deity, nor his humanity in that statement. Whatever the source for your faulty doctrine, it does not keep the CONTEXT in mind. Did you do a blind cut-and-paste without looking at the entire context? It seems so, PAT, and in doing that you do a disservice to yourself. That is because the Bible is a narrative, and it all focuses on Jesus Christ. To make the words of Jesus say more thn they do in a simple, straight forward manner is to open ones's self up to all sorts of ridicule if the lessons of context are not learned. I am not ridiculing you, but we all know that there are sites which can heap scorn on simple mistakes, both on the Mormon or on the Christian

 

[Free]

Okay, I've seen enough promotion of Mormonism. :gah