Gahhh...she did it again!!!

[handy]

I love my mother in law...I really do. We get along quite well all things considered, except for her habit/hobby of buying lots of thrift-store/yard sale junk and foisting it on us...but, with all that can be bad about mothers-in-law...I'm pretty blessed with mine.

Except...gah...

She's very liberal. And she thinks this whole idea of chaperoning dating is not right...that Viola and Thomas should be able to date "normally"...you know, sending two hormonally charged teenagers off by themselves for hours on end....

...not gonna happen on my watch...not with my kids. Steve's all on-board with the chaperoning as well. So is our daughter's current boyfriend's parents. They can be together, but someone will also be with them...period. We did the same thing the last time Viola had a boyfriend. He knew that they needed to have someone around, either us, his grandparents (who fully believed in chaperonage) or Thomas...and he was OK with it. As a matter of fact, he still sends out word via various methods to Viola that should she want to get back together with him, he'd like that...Viola being the one to break it off.

So, I just chatted with the m-i-l and she took it upon herself to discuss with her family Doctor, who just happens to be our family Doctor...and yes, Viola's doctor... about the HPV immunization shot. My in-laws have no girls and their "baby" is 41 years old....so she's getting this information for Viola...after she's already brought it up to me....several times now...and I've already made it perfectly clear that Viola, myself and our previous family doctor have already had that conversation and we have already made a decision about this immunization....namely that since Viola isn't considering having sex prior to marriage, there is no real reason to get it until she is engaged and knows what her fiance's sexual history is.

I've also talked with Viola about when she turns 18 and chooses to date sans chaperoning, she might want to consider it in cases of date rape, etc. At any rate, this is something that Viola has already been given plenty of information about and she knows that when she becomes sexually active, she has some important health considerations to take care of.

I'm up front with her on this...Viola understands that sex carries risks and that we aren't going to "protect" her from those risks via shots and pills, because the expectation is that she will remain a virgin until marriage. The extent of our "protection" of her is that we we will vet her dates and boyfriends and we will not leave her alone with them. Yes, Steve is at all the dances...yes, Steve does show up at the school when she is there hanging out with a mixed group of kids. Yes, I do walk in on her and her dates when they are in the living room or on the back patio. All this is for her protection. And, she "gets" it. She just told me the day before yesterday that one boy asked her if she wanted him to sneak back over to the house after I had gone to bed, when she and I were in town one weekend. She told him where to get off, and in no uncertain terms....and she really liked him a lot too, but not after that. I had wondered why he disappeared so suddenly, but boys come and go so quickly these days, I didn't really delve into it. This is about the third time that Viola's been propisitioned...and each time she's dumped the guy on the spot.

I know my m-i-l is motivated out of love and concern...but sheesh...after she raised her boys with the liberal idea of "kids are going to do it anyway, so you need to get them "protection" and with her older boys being total train wrecks when it comes to relationships and screwing up their lives (one fathering 5 different kids by two different women and raised all five of them via child support payments and phone calls, the other died of AIDS)...you'd think she have some respect for the way we are choosing to raise our kids....

 

[reba]

I would put my foot down hard.... Real hard and would remind the doctor of the HEPPA laws.
Grandma is showing no respect for Viola or her parents. I would be on the look out for grandma getting birth control for Viola. Which in MHO is a indirect order to go have sex as you want. No need for the shot if your not having sex.

Good grief what is this world doing to our kids? Let them be kids! They are not meant to be little adults. What are we allowing this world to do to our kids?

Screaming and yelling we am throwing a tantrum...:angry2:rant :mad: :angry2

This effort to undermined your authority is no small matter!

 

[tim-from-pa]

From the medical perspective, I'm glad you are holding your ground, Handy, about the shot. I hear some horror stories, deaths and/or serious reactions from it. But as most medical/pharmaceutical advice goes, they ignore those few cases, and push it like a host of other either ineffective or potentially dangerous meds.

I have some far better advice far more effective than the shot, and you'll agree:

For prevention of disease, dresses down, pants up. Not the other way around.

 

[jasoncran]

i regret not being pure for my wife.2oh the lies of the devil.

 

[handy]

Viola and I had to go into Boise today, so I took the opportunity of our "girl time" to talk with her about the whole thing again...it's always good to keep the lines of communication open. One thing we talked about was how both me and a cousin of her's were engaged before we met our husbands. I told her how much I loved Gordon, and was sure that I was going to marry him...just to have him give me the old heave-ho on my birthday, instead of the engagement ring everyone was expecting. It was hard enough to get through that...but one thing was, we never had sex with each other. I'm so glad we didn't...because it would have made the worst time of my life even more painful. With my niece, it was one week before the wedding, all the invitations were out, the deposits paid, everything ready to go...and bam...they broke up. Again, she was so glad that sex wasn't part of the picture. It was important for coping with the break-ups and it was even more important when we each met the men we did wind up marrying, and were able to give ourselves wholly to them.

It was a good talk, Viola is even more understanding as to why God says to keep sex for marriage. So, good came out of this.

As for Grandma...I just reiterated to her that the kids will be chaperoned, and that's that. If need be, I'll have Steve talk with her. It won't be the first time.

For prevention of disease, dresses down, pants up. Not the other way around.

Exactly!

 

[stovebolts]

Dora,
We don't let our kids date until they are 16....

Anyway, sounds like your doing all the right things with Arial. But I'd remind your mother in law who's raising Viola and you don't need her undermining the direction your leading your daughter. It's about respecting your home and your's and Steve's authority.

If she persists in defying your wishes, I'd start supervising the time she spent with Arial...

Good luck.

 

[Mike]

I agree that this the discussion and decision should be left up to you, but I can't feel completely comfortable with either decision right now. As it is, we're in the default decision not to have our 13 YO have this vaccine. On the one hand, giving them the shot with the knowledge of what it's for is like handing her a box of condoms and saying, "We don't want you having sex, but here's just in case...". Not a resounding stance.

On the other hand, this IS cancer the vaccine is intended to prevent. The effectiveness and safety is questioned by some, but the majority of physicians I know aren't concerned with that. And I'm not so pessimistic of the medical community to dismiss this as some conspiracy.

Dora, with regard to both issues, what do you think? Does the potential of cancer give you any pause? Do you ever think of that and having to explain to Viola that you could have had it done but didn't if one day she were to be diagnosed with cancer? I'm not judging anyone's decision, because I can see merit in both.

 

[handy]

Dora, with regard to both issues, what do you think? Does the potential of cancer give you any pause? Do you ever think of that and having to explain to Viola that you could have had it done but didn't if one day she were to be diagnosed with cancer? I'm not judging anyone's decision, because I can see merit in both.

According to our former family physician, the vaccine is effective as long as it is received prior to contracting the virus...so, as long as Viola gets the vaccine prior to having any sex with anyone not a virgin, she should be OK....

Which was part of the discussion yesterday. That, she needs to wait for sex and when she is discussing marriage with a man, that is when she needs to have the conversation with him as to his sexual history. If he's a virgin and she's a virgin...they will never have any need to worry about any kind of std's. But, if he has a sexual history, then she needs to make sure that he is tested for std's and she should then contact her doctor to discuss getting the vaccine...as an adult capable of making her own medical decisions regarding her own health.

We also discussed the whole "date rape" scenario as well, something we need to beware of. The thing is, if she doesn't allow herself to be alone with a guy until she truly knows him and knows his character, what he believes about sex, he level of respect for women...her chances of being date-raped diminishes. Until she feels fully comfortable and at ease with a guy, she really should stick to group situations or, at the very least, arrange to meet in public places, driving herself to and from. I've known several women who have been date raped, and in each case the woman really didn't know the guy at all....we teach our kids "don't talk to strangers" and yet women go out, alone with virtual strangers, calling it a date...:eeeekkk

Is she still at risk...yes...but women are at risk. That's life. As it is, I don't feel comfortable giving her this vaccine, not only because of the implied condoning of premarital sex, but also because I'm not sure of the long-term consequences of this vaccine on a still developing body.

 

[stovebolts]

Dora,
Sounds like you've got all the bases covered and have a good relationship with your daughter. Hang in there!

 

[Nathan Alterton]

From the medical perspective, I'm glad you are holding your ground, Handy, about the shot. I hear some horror stories, deaths and/or serious reactions from it. But as most medical/pharmaceutical advice goes, they ignore those few cases, and push it like a host of other either ineffective or potentially dangerous meds.

Coming from a medical family where we have discussed these issues, I have to correct this statement.

Cases of death and serious reaction are not ignored by the medical community, they are taken into account for all medications. Nearly all drugs will cause very serious side effects in a small percentage of people, but when that group is small enough and the benificial effects of the medication are substantial enough, the medication is approved. Ask any doctor, they'll tell you that there are bad effects to all medications, but given certain conditions or diseases the beneficial effects outweigh the detrimental effects. This is why we don't just pop pills willy nilly. Only when necessary.

I have some far better advice far more effective than the shot, and you'll agree:

For prevention of disease, dresses down, pants up. Not the other way around.

No one can disagree with that. It certainly worked for my wife and me.