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Gay Marriage Question

In my Soc class last quarter the prof broke us up into groups (something they love to do these days) and asked us to pretend that the world as we knew it had been changed. All machines, buildings, roads and modern convieniences (grocery stores too) had vanished without explaination and we had to start over. Each group was given several tasks. We could only use the mats that we had with us in the classroom and we were to form our own little group societies.

The tasks would be to consider how we were to provide shelter, food and determine what type of government we would endorse. One of the guys in my group was homeless and was the most prepared but before I get too far off topic let me come to the point. About halfway through the exercise the instructor asked, "Will children know who their father's are?"

That was the issue upon which he hung religious and/or civil ceremonies of marriage upon. "Will children know who their father's are?"
 
There are many heterosexual couples that cannot bear a child and are forced to adopt, which is what many gay couples do as well, so I don't see a solid argument there.

Well, first off I'm not arguing. I'm only stating my opinion, which by the way reflects in the way I vote. But more to your point, homosexuals with fully functioning "gear" can't bear a child while a male and female with "gear" that isn't functioning properly can't bear a child. However, a male and a female with fully functioning gear "CAN" produce a child. Not sure if you can see that difference or not. It's all about the way things in nature work. You know, the birds and the bees. It's actually quiet elementary.

If the state wants to allow civil union's, then that's up to the voters of that state to decide. Should gay couples be able to share some of the perks of marriage such as health care, or hospitial rights when the other is sick? Yeah, sure... I don't have a problem with that.

Where I have a problem, is calling something that isn't, something that is. Two homosexuals with fully functional "junk" can never bear a child. It's simply a fact of nature. Why then should we pretend that they can and redefine what a healthy marriage / family should look like?


And for the last two posters..again..this was NOT a debate on whether homosexuality in itself is bad or a sin. We all know that it is a sin and spoken of as one in the Bible. Homosexuality will persist regardless of whether marriage is legal or not. The marriage itself is a ceremony to join two peoples together. The people making up the pair is where the sin can be found, not in the ceremony itself.

We've already devalued the view of marriage in America. Go on down to the city clerk and pay your money and bam, your married. 3 years later go back down and for $100 when you can't work it out, go get your divorce.

For most people, marriage is a liability and even the tax laws make it beneficial not to get married. Nothing more than a piece of paper that when you get tired of it, just rip it up and move on but boy was that one heck of a party! You'll find the same in same sex marriages. Most of them don't last either.
 
Because to God they are explicitly tied together.

It's a slippery slope which Paul refers to (though without the term "slippery slope" since they probably didn't have that back in the day) in Romans 1. The same can be said about any of the other immoral and sinful activities that we have been badgered into allowing.

Abortion. OK fine what could that possibly spawn? Euthanasia.

Who knows what the next step after gay marriage is? I could speculate all day long but I'd rather just never have to see it.

The devil is like a child or a criminal. You give him a little bit and he begins to take a lot. He has to test the water to see where how far he can go.

Let me ask you this:

Would you still be in favor of gay marriage if they didn't have an entire book of words and phrases to throw at you and make you feel bad about (homophobic and such)? And would you feel more inclined to oppose it if other countries had not already passed laws in favor of it? And would you be more against it if homosexuality wasn't so common in everything from TV and movies to sidewalks and malls?
Seems to lend credence to why God wanted His chosen people, the Israelites, to be set apart in appearance and custom as well as their faith, doesn't it? When we allow ourselves to accept (be tolerant) the ills of this world we are opening the door for the devil to get his foot in.

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.." Rom. 12:1-2 NKJV

"Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth." 1 Cor. 5:6-8 NKJV
 
Because to God they are explicitly tied together.

It's a slippery slope which Paul refers to (though without the term "slippery slope" since they probably didn't have that back in the day) in Romans 1. The same can be said about any of the other immoral and sinful activities that we have been badgered into allowing.

Abortion. OK fine what could that possibly spawn? Euthanasia.

Who knows what the next step after gay marriage is? I could speculate all day long but I'd rather just never have to see it.

The devil is like a child or a criminal. You give him a little bit and he begins to take a lot. He has to test the water to see where how far he can go.

Let me ask you this:

Would you still be in favor of gay marriage if they didn't have an entire book of words and phrases to throw at you and make you feel bad about (homophobic and such)? And would you feel more inclined to oppose it if other countries had not already passed laws in favor of it? And would you be more against it if homosexuality wasn't so common in everything from TV and movies to sidewalks and malls?

Yet again...never said I was in favor of it.

And to answer the first question..I would still say I'm homophobic to some degree. My claim of indifference for gay marriage isn't an effort to try to be better or more tolerant to a group of people. I met and became friends with a gay guy my freshman year of college. I actually didn't even know he was gay until he told me weeks after getting to know him. I think about that guy...he was like me..had his flaws..difference was he's gay. I can't sit here and say: "you don't even deserve to be happy and get married" because he's gay. I would say my indifference stems more from personal experiences like that more than anything.

For your second question..I had to read it through a couple times to pick up what you were saying haha. Umm.. so if other countries had passed laws against it, would that make me want to oppose it more? Not really, no. It's not like I'm wishing homosexual marriage becomes legal so we can be like other countries.

Third question. Again, I am pretty much basing my opinion on personal experience, not what the media feeds me. In fact, the homosexuality portrayed on TV/movies/etc. almost makes me what to oppose it more...not the other way around...because the gay people portrayed in the media are soo over-the-top, and in my opinion the attention seekers (with a few exceptions)
 
We've already devalued the view of marriage in America. Go on down to the city clerk and pay your money and bam, your married. 3 years later go back down and for $100 when you can't work it out, go get your divorce.

Wish i didn't agree Stove wish i didn't
 
Well, first off I'm not arguing. I'm only stating my opinion, which by the way reflects in the way I vote. But more to your point, homosexuals with fully functioning "gear" can't bear a child while a male and female with "gear" that isn't functioning properly can't bear a child. However, a male and a female with fully functioning gear "CAN" produce a child. Not sure if you can see that difference or not. It's all about the way things in nature work. You know, the birds and the bees. It's actually quiet elementary.

If the state wants to allow civil union's, then that's up to the voters of that state to decide. Should gay couples be able to share some of the perks of marriage such as health care, or hospitial rights when the other is sick? Yeah, sure... I don't have a problem with that.

Where I have a problem, is calling something that isn't, something that is. Two homosexuals with fully functional "junk" can never bear a child. It's simply a fact of nature. Why then should we pretend that they can and redefine what a healthy marriage / family should look like?




We've already devalued the view of marriage in America. Go on down to the city clerk and pay your money and bam, your married. 3 years later go back down and for $100 when you can't work it out, go get your divorce.

For most people, marriage is a liability and even the tax laws make it beneficial not to get married. Nothing more than a piece of paper that when you get tired of it, just rip it up and move on but boy was that one heck of a party! You'll find the same in same sex marriages. Most of them don't last either.

Yeah, that was bad word choice on my part. I DO realize how children are made haha. My point there was more that your opinion seemed to be based that a homosexual couple wouldn't LOOK like the ideal family, where there are heterosexual families, both fertile and infertile, that choose to adopt and skew that "perfect family image" to some degree.

And your last two paragraphs are exactly why I'm indifferent. America HAS made marriage a joke already. It's very very sad, but it is the truth. You can pick up a paper and you're married. THAT is what I don't understand. People are arguing about a piece of paper, that honestly has no other effect, but makes two people legally bonded together. Not emotionally or physically, which is what I believe a true marriage consists of (and is sinful in the homosexual respect), but a legal bondage (a piece of paper).
 
Hey Navigator,

Navigator said:
Yeah, that was bad word choice on my part. I DO realize how children are made haha. My point there was more that your opinion seemed to be based that a homosexual couple wouldn't LOOK like the ideal family, where there are heterosexual families, both fertile and infertile, that choose to adopt and skew that "perfect family image" to some degree.

I was gonna say I hope you knew how babies were made :lol

Anyway, my point is this. I am not just talking about the exterior view of what the "ideal" family should look like. You know, Wally and Beaver with a hot mom that wears pearls when she vacuum's the front room and always has dinner on time.

What I'm talking about is the vast differences between male and female as a whole and I do hope you don't ask me to list them all. Ok, just one. Men generally talk about "stuff" while women usually talk about the people that have the "stuff"... It's just true.

And when raising a family, both parents (male and female) are needed because each parent can bring a different view all together, yet the two come together as "one" for a total package.

Hope that helps.
 
I don't support any gayness of any form but I honestly wouldn't care if gay marriage was around. We live in a free republic, there's no need to order people around on what they should believe. This is not a country of Communism. However, for the sake of the survival of our species no.
 
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Gay Marriage is Impossible

"Should gay marriage be legalized?"

Well - it's GOING TO BE, and there's nothing you, me, or the church (in it's present fragmented and infantile state) can do to stop it. so whether it SHOULD be, or not is moot. It's COMING y'all - along with Euthanasia, voluntary suicide, and REAL PErsecution of the church (not that some areas in the world would notice the difference).

And it's rather unimportant anyway in the grand scale of things. When ASKED If I agree with it, I say "NO" state why, and suggest that "Civil union" terminology would be a better choice. I have no issue with same-sex couples who form a "household unit" having the same economic, civil, and Tax advantages as a Heterosexual couple.

However what will be "Legalized" and given the NAME: "Marriage" is really, and can be nothing more than a legally binding CIVIL CONTRACT that defines a legal entity - a "Corporation" as it were consisting of two people, and their financial obligations, interpersonal rights, tax status, as well as the dissolution requirements in terms of dividing of common property, and finances should the corporation be terminated at the wishes of one or more of the "Partners".

There's nothing "Religious or "Spiritual" about it - it's only a "word" - with a new connotation - like "Love" - which means NOTHING any more in the English language.

And the "SAME is true when the HETEROSEXUAL COUPLE goes to church and has a"Wedding ceremony" - It's the SAME "Civil Contract execution" before witnesses establishing the SAME legal entity. And then there's the "Party afterwards" -

And after that the Couple Gets alone with one another and "Marries" in the Biblical sense - the "Joining of flesh". In the U.S. it's be my guess that a significant percentage of folks (Christian and otherwise) who have "Weddings" - are already Biblically "Married" LONG before they ever get to the church - in many cases probably SEVERAL times already.

Homosexuals will never "Join flesh" - the Component parts don't fit. Case closed.

SO - "Gay Marriage" (Biblically) is a simple impossibility. "Gay Marriage" is a contradiction in terms, and will never BE anything more than a "Civil contract" establishing "Legal Rights".

And Homosexuality isn't, and never was a "Super sin" - it's just another "Sexual sin" among many. Whether or not "Homosexuality" Naturally occurring condition (Which it probably IS) or not is also totally unimportant to the discussion. BEING "Homosexual" isn't a sin - engaging in homosexual physical activities is.

Being an "Over-libidinous Heterosexual" isn't a sin - committing adultery and fornication IS - even though it's a TOTALLY NATURAL thing to do.

The "HARM" in Homosexual "Marriage" lies in the public Corruption of the "TYPE" of Biblical Marriage - which is a "TYPE" of the relationship between Christ and His Bride. and since they can never PRODUCE "life" based on the union and contributions of the couple as the union between Jesus and His Church can, that whole portion of the "Family system" is missing.

BUT - as the world darkens, ans we roll on toward the end of the age - It's just another evidence of the "Vanity" produced by sin.
 
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bob, the cases of stds are the highest amongst the male bi ans male gays.

they maynot have kids but they do have anal sex. theres a permanent blood ban for men who do these things without having proof of being positive on any std or aids. i dont agree with that but that is something to consider
 
I think the gay thing is a very divisive issue because at the heart of life's struggle, is the struggle to have children, to successfully procreate. It is sort of the crowning glory of the joy of one's life. But life is not a means to an end, it is the end itself. Some are needed to procreate, to produce new souls, new bodies. ,
I think christianity is about kindness, I think many gays have kind loving hearts, to be honest, a gay person who loves animals and takes care of them, I could only love that person. I think the God of love loves homosexuals, which is why the are termed 'gay', it's a kind of divine mercy he sheds on them, he makes them happy, because he knows there is a deep sadness inside of them, that has made them gay.

I think sex roles has part to do with it, just like some people play tag, one is the predator, one is the prey, one chases one loves being chased, one seduces, one loves being seduced. If playing the role of a woman is so utterly shameful, just imagine how women must feel about it.

All I know is, if I understand all things, but have not love I am nothing. If I don't understand homosexuality, I know if I do not love them, it is a sin. I believe it is a grievous sin, to molest people sexually, to whom it may do grave harm, it is possible that gays are doing great harm to eachother, I wish I could discern these things.

so many people I believe who have a strong holy spirit, are very adamantly against homosexuality, and I believe it is somewhat of a death instinct, but we have to ask, what sadness has created this inside of them, if it is?

I will be honest, there are so many talented gay people, in the arts, there are so many who are clearly gifted individuals, who could clearly obtain many beautiful women.

the reason so many people are so vehently against homosexuality, is they feel they must protect their children from this sadness, because they must ensure their children, have a healthy zest for life, and a desire to procreate, and give them grandchildren, and great grandchildren, and carry on their lineage forever. There is nothing sadder, than a human, or an animal, that fails at the task, of passing on their joy to a child. They want to give joy, to a child and recreate the universe anew, to at least, perpetuate the beauty of life. Homosexuals often want that same thing, in this life, to entertain, to bring joy, to children. Life cannot be simply a mindless urge to procreate, if you have no joy. If there is no happiness or reason to live, there is no reason to procreate.

I believe to hate homosexuals and make them feel terrible, might possibly only make them even more hypersexual. I believe if a person feels tremendous, real love, it can overcome their sadness and death instinct. I believe gays could possibly have a bond with eachother, that transcends sex, that is holy and spiritual, but that also, sex may tarnish that bond of real love. As it says in the bible, "whatever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven". This is such a tremendously important passage. TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT. This is what it's all about. This is where you forge the bonds of love, that will last forever. And the bonds you break, the bonds you loose, will be lost in heaven. That is horrible sadness. If you help to bind friendships, in others, also, it is a great blessing, if you cause others to hate eachother, or destroy love and friendships, that brings a horrible curse. If we all work together, we can create heaven on earth, and I will admit, I have always loved the artistic works of so many gays, when I didn't know they were gay. I guess I am like my pet squirrel, I am always checking to skies for predators, and mistrusting life, because it IS so full of danger and deceit. I procede so carefully, I am paranoid like Spike, my squirrel, for good reasons. There is great evil in the world and, like a cat, it waits to pounce, and uses deception, to catch the weak and vulnerable. And yet we love cats, even though they are predators, we love dogs, although they are predators. Life is still a mystery I don't really understand, I suppose we are martialed to ever higher states, by preying on the weaker lifeforms, and yet squirrels love life, they have joy and fun. They are so happy, climbing trees, and they are excited by predators, in a thrilling way I think. sometimes Spike would squeak so exitedly with such fear when she saw a cat, she would be afraid, yet she would jump around playfully in my arms, as if she was somewhat excited in a playful way, also, although she understood, the cat was no game, she HAD to avoid this cat, because she had to prove herself, to live to survive, and mate one day perhaps, to carry on the cycle of life, but also to die one day, to make way for something new, to make way for new squirrel souls, or perhaps, provide new squirrel bodies, for old squirrel souls.


I will say though, In conclusion, the biblical scriptures are very profound and contain deep understandings of the cosmos, and they do say that sexual fornication, is wrong, it says adulterers, sorcerers, destroyers of the earth, murderers, are wicked, and shall go to hell, but it does not say specically gays. The old testament says gays should be stoned, but we would probably all be stoned if we followed the old testament exactly. the few who could followed the bible exactly probably should be stoned for being insane.
 
I think the gay thing is a very divisive issue because at the heart of life's struggle, is the struggle to have children, to successfully procreate. It is sort of the crowning glory of the joy of one's life. But life is not a means to an end, it is the end itself. Some are needed to procreate, to produce new souls, new bodies. ,
I think christianity is about kindness, I think many gays have kind loving hearts, to be honest, a gay person who loves animals and takes care of them, I could only love that person. I think the God of love loves homosexuals, which is why the are termed 'gay', it's a kind of divine mercy he sheds on them, he makes them happy, because he knows there is a deep sadness inside of them, that has made them gay.

I think sex roles has part to do with it, just like some people play tag, one is the predator, one is the prey, one chases one loves being chased, one seduces, one loves being seduced. If playing the role of a woman is so utterly shameful, just imagine how women must feel about it.

All I know is, if I understand all things, but have not love I am nothing. If I don't understand homosexuality, I know if I do not love them, it is a sin. I believe it is a grievous sin, to molest people sexually, to whom it may do grave harm, it is possible that gays are doing great harm to eachother, I wish I could discern these things.

so many people I believe who have a strong holy spirit, are very adamantly against homosexuality, and I believe it is somewhat of a death instinct, but we have to ask, what sadness has created this inside of them, if it is?

I will be honest, there are so many talented gay people, in the arts, there are so many who are clearly gifted individuals, who could clearly obtain many beautiful women.

the reason so many people are so vehently against homosexuality, is they feel they must protect their children from this sadness, because they must ensure their children, have a healthy zest for life, and a desire to procreate, and give them grandchildren, and great grandchildren, and carry on their lineage forever. There is nothing sadder, than a human, or an animal, that fails at the task, of passing on their joy to a child. They want to give joy, to a child and recreate the universe anew, to at least, perpetuate the beauty of life. Homosexuals often want that same thing, in this life, to entertain, to bring joy, to children. Life cannot be simply a mindless urge to procreate, if you have no joy. If there is no happiness or reason to live, there is no reason to procreate.

I believe to hate homosexuals and make them feel terrible, might possibly only make them even more hypersexual. I believe if a person feels tremendous, real love, it can overcome their sadness and death instinct. I believe gays could possibly have a bond with eachother, that transcends sex, that is holy and spiritual, but that also, sex may tarnish that bond of real love. As it says in the bible, "whatever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven". This is such a tremendously important passage. TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT. This is what it's all about. This is where you forge the bonds of love, that will last forever. And the bonds you break, the bonds you loose, will be lost in heaven. That is horrible sadness. If you help to bind friendships, in others, also, it is a great blessing, if you cause others to hate eachother, or destroy love and friendships, that brings a horrible curse. If we all work together, we can create heaven on earth, and I will admit, I have always loved the artistic works of so many gays, when I didn't know they were gay. I guess I am like my pet squirrel, I am always checking to skies for predators, and mistrusting life, because it IS so full of danger and deceit. I procede so carefully, I am paranoid like Spike, my squirrel, for good reasons. There is great evil in the world and, like a cat, it waits to pounce, and uses deception, to catch the weak and vulnerable. And yet we love cats, even though they are predators, we love dogs, although they are predators. Life is still a mystery I don't really understand, I suppose we are martialed to ever higher states, by preying on the weaker lifeforms, and yet squirrels love life, they have joy and fun. They are so happy, climbing trees, and they are excited by predators, in a thrilling way I think. sometimes Spike would squeak so exitedly with such fear when she saw a cat, she would be afraid, yet she would jump around playfully in my arms, as if she was somewhat excited in a playful way, also, although she understood, the cat was no game, she HAD to avoid this cat, because she had to prove herself, to live to survive, and mate one day perhaps, to carry on the cycle of life, but also to die one day, to make way for something new, to make way for new squirrel souls, or perhaps, provide new squirrel bodies, for old squirrel souls.


I will say though, In conclusion, the biblical scriptures are very profound and contain deep understandings of the cosmos, and they do say that sexual fornication, is wrong, it says adulterers, sorcerers, destroyers of the earth, murderers, are wicked, and shall go to hell, but it does not say specically gays. The old testament says gays should be stoned, but we would probably all be stoned if we followed the old testament exactly. the few who could followed the bible exactly probably should be stoned for being insane.
the new testament never claims what is called a stonable punishmable offense a thing that one is allowed to do.

just so you know. the penalty for these sins are already taken for the sinner, and no and I MEAN NO GAY LOVE ISNT NORMAL.i have felt it. its not what god intended if God wanted gay marriages he would have simply said so. if one has to look for loopholes then its a sin.
 
This was the call in topic on the local talk show last night.

I got a good laugh out of one caller's comment.

He suggested they be careful what they ask for. (they, being same sex couples) He said, (paraphrase) let them get married and have all the benefits that go with being married... including all the hassles that go with getting a divorce.

:lol

I know the "institution" of marriage is heading in an immoral direction, but, I will never recognize it as marriage as is defined by my Bible.
 
Because God says it is. This is not up for debate.

So what you say is someone like me has to burn in hell for eternity in return for being happy with someone I love.

Well, "mate" I'll tell you what, i've been gay for as long as I can remember and there was a time in my life where I hated myself for it, I thought I was horrible, an outcast. But now I have met someone and I have never been happier in my life than I am right now, they are perfect for me and would not exchange what I have for the world.

But that's not what I am here to say, what I want to say is about the time before my life got better. I still do get this but it doesn't bother me any more, but people would say I chose to be the way I am. But that is as far from the truth as one could get. I have always been that way. There was a time I prayed to God every night for that I would wake up in the morning and be seen as normal and have attraction to women. It's all I wanted but every day my prayers were left unanswered. I just physically could not do it. I was born that way and it's who I was and that was it, and you know what? If there even is a God, then it is God who made me this way.

Anyone who says that being gay is wrong these days has to get a reality check, it's getting bigger and bigger every day and at some point people are just going to have to accept that some people are that way and get over it. I am not a horrible person, I'm kind compassionate and would bend over backwards for anyone who deserved it. Yet people still look at me like i'm the dirt they wiped off their shoe because I fell in love with someone different to who they did. We are all human at the end of the day and I would rather burn in hell for eternity and spend my life happily with my partner than try and be someone i'm not get get into heaven after living a lie.
 
So what you say is someone like me has to burn in hell for eternity in return for being happy with someone I love.

Well, "mate" I'll tell you what, i've been gay for as long as I can remember and there was a time in my life where I hated myself for it, I thought I was horrible, an outcast. But now I have met someone and I have never been happier in my life than I am right now, they are perfect for me and would not exchange what I have for the world.
You don't have to burn in hell. There is a way out. "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me," says the Lord. (John 14:6 KJV)

I have been a sinner my entire life of 52+ years. Based on what you've written here I propose that the difference between you and me is that one of us is willing to accept some of our sins and not only accept them but enjoy them and relish in them. "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out." (Acts 3:19 KJV) "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance," says the Lord. (Luke 15:7 KJV)

Whether your lifestyle is acceptable to me or not is not really important. What is important is whether your lifestyle is acceptable to God Almighty and how you feel about that. God will not negotiate this.

The world today teaches tolerance and acceptance of certain sins; homosexuality, fornication, prostitution, sexual promiscuity, and others. What the world is willing to accept is not going to influence what God is willing to accept. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

If you are feeling guilt by what we say, it is not by us but by the Holy Spirit. Listen to Him! He's speaking to your heart. He's calling you by name. Hear His voice and repent! It's not too late.
 
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