[_ Old Earth _] Gen 1 Defies Physics Laws

[Guest]

For the same reason that days exist out of this temporary universe, we can have light exist out of the temporary universe.

So temporary universe light is not temporary? If the light can only exist in this state, then, unlike a day, it cannot exist outside the present.

Light is as temporary as day is! According to the Bible day is a concept that marks the separation of darkness and light, so if light doesn't exist then the day doesn't exist. You are wrong even by your own definition!

 

[dad]

Light is as temporary as day is!

Not true, because the light from God lights heaven, or new Jerusalem, we do not need present light! But there are still days there. Checkmate.

According to the Bible day is a concept that marks the separation of darkness and light,

No, that is what God called it, for our universe, that was just created. The Ancient of Days was here long long long long long long long long long long before that week. So were days.

so if light doesn't exist then the day doesn't exist. You are wrong even by your own definition!

In our created universe, the day came with the first light, but that does not go to saying there were no days before that.

 

[Guest]

No, that is what God called it, for our universe, that was just created. The Ancient of Days was here long long long long long long long long long long before that week. So were days.

In our created universe, the day came with the first light, but that does not go to saying there were no days before that.

Thus they were not the same days! Anyway, you confuse yourself with time and day. Day is the separation of light vs dark, time is the passing of every moment.

 

[dad]

Thus they were not the same days!

Thus, you have no idea what they were, since all that matters is when our universe came to be. Trying to claim the known days that are also before that, or in heaven, are somehow different is without any basis whatsoever.

Anyway, you confuse yourself with time and day. Day is the separation of light vs dark, time is the passing of every moment.

No more than Jesus was confused in talking about the 12 hours in a day. The light part of a light and dark 24 hour period, is still a day.

 

[Guest]

Thus they were not the same days!

Thus, you have no idea what they were, since all that matters is when our universe came to be. Trying to claim the known days that are also before that, or in heaven, are somehow different is without any basis whatsoever.

My idea about the length of day is about as accurate as your idea about the speed of light . And to be precise, we really don't get exactly 12 hours of daylight per day, sometimes it's 10 hours sometimes its 14 hours depending depending on the season. More proof that a day may be longer than 24 hours is just looking at the south/north pole: each day there is 6 months , so even at present time a day is not always the same length everywhere on the surface of the Earth. LOL You are stumbling and falling !

Anyway, you confuse yourself with time and day. Day is the separation of light vs dark, time is the passing of every moment.

No more than Jesus was confused in talking about the 12 hours in a day.

Of course Jesus is talking about the Universe at the present time, not before the so called "split" . And that definition does not apply on the North or the South Pole, because a day on the North Pole is 6 months So that is pretty good evidence that it is possible to have different "length" days!

The light part of a light and dark 24 hour period, is still a day.

Precisely, it's a day, but how do we get a light and a dark part of a 24 hour period? And without the sun, how do we get a light part and a dark part. And where does is say that a day during creation was 24 hours? The earth's full rotation takes about 24 hours, but when the sun is not there we can't gauge what a day is. Even worse, I just showed you that even in the present time a day is not always the same length, just look at the North/South Pole where one day lasts for 6 months!

 

[dad]

My idea about the length of day is about as accurate as your idea about the speed of light .

False, we know exactly how fast the speed of light is.

And to be precise, we really don't get exactly 12 hours of daylight per day, sometimes it's 10 hours sometimes its 14 hours depending depending on the season. More proof that a day may be longer than 24 hours is just looking at the south/north pole: each day there is 6 months , so even at present time a day is not always the same length everywhere on the surface of the Earth. LOL You are stumbling and falling !

irrelevant! Man was not created all over the earth at once, just in one place. That place at that time had day and night.

Of course Jesus is talking about the Universe at the present time, not before the so called "split" . And that definition does not apply on the North or the South Pole, because a day on the North Pole is 6 months So that is pretty good evidence that it is possible to have different "length" days!

The present poles do not matter to where Adam was created! Jesus was talking about present time, but can you prove He was not also talking about His kingdom???

Mt 26:29 - But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.


By the way, do you really think God rested millions of years after creation week??!!

Heb 4:4 - For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Precisely, it's a day, but how do we get a light and a dark part of a 24 hour period?

The light from God hovered.

And where does is say that a day during creation was 24 hours?

Where does it say plants last millions of years with no sun, or that God rests for millions of years at a time!!! Does that mean no one ever really heard from Him??? He must still be sleeping? Get serious.

The earth's full rotation takes about 24 hours, but when the sun is not there we can't gauge what a day is. Even worse, I just showed you that even in the present time a day is not always the same length, just look at the North/South Pole where one day lasts for 6 months!

The sun took over as God got done hovering perhaps! The present day length in the far reaches of earth matter not, because Adam was not there.

 

[Guest]

My idea about the length of day is about as accurate as your idea about the speed of light .

False, we know exactly how fast the speed of light is.

If you're talking about your magical light, then you DON'T! What is the speed of your magical light EXACTLY? You claim that you know exactly what the speed of light was, then tell us!

And to be precise, we really don't get exactly 12 hours of daylight per day, sometimes it's 10 hours sometimes its 14 hours depending depending on the season. More proof that a day may be longer than 24 hours is just looking at the south/north pole: each day there is 6 months , so even at present time a day is not always the same length everywhere on the surface of the Earth. LOL You are stumbling and falling !

irrelevant! Man was not created all over the earth at once, just in one place. That place at that time had day and night.

And I have shown you that the day and night were not the same in the time of creation!

Of course Jesus is talking about the Universe at the present time, not before the so called "split" . And that definition does not apply on the North or the South Pole, because a day on the North Pole is 6 months So that is pretty good evidence that it is possible to have different "length" days!

The present poles do not matter to where Adam was created! Jesus was talking about present time, but can you prove He was not also talking about His kingdom???

And where exactly was the Garden of Eden then? You have no proof that the day was the same, as a matter of fact that contradicts your biggest assumption of a "different past state", and you have no proof to support your claim.
I can prove that Jesus was not talking about his kingdom as much as you can prove that he was ! If you can't prove it, then I don't need to prove it!

Mt 26:29 - But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Yet again, 2+2=-4 and 256! All the above quote says is that He will not drink wine until he goes to Heaven, that says NOTHING about the length of day! You make no sense, you pull quotes which mention the word "day" and you try to use them as proof that the length of the day was fixed, that is baseless, illogical, and WORTHLESS! A day could be 8 hours, 12 hours, 6 months, or as in the case of the "past state" Universe it could be millions and billions of years!

By the way, do you really think God rested millions of years after creation week??!!
Heb 4:4 - For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Doesn't matter what I think, the point is that you can't prove it wrong!

Precisely, it's a day, but how do we get a light and a dark part of a 24 hour period?

The light from God hovered.

UH, NO, not talking about the past- talking about NOW! We get it because the Earth rotates around itself causing the sun to illuminate 1/2 of the earth while the other 1/2 is dark!

And where does is say that a day during creation was 24 hours?

Where does it say plants last millions of years with no sun, or that God rests for millions of years at a time!!! Does that mean no one ever really heard from Him??? He must still be sleeping? Get serious.

It says it in the same place where it says that a day was the same as today .

The earth's full rotation takes about 24 hours, but when the sun is not there we can't gauge what a day is. Even worse, I just showed you that even in the present time a day is not always the same length, just look at the North/South Pole where one day lasts for 6 months!

The sun took over as God got done hovering perhaps! The present day length in the far reaches of earth matter not, because Adam was not there.

You don't know where the Garden of Eden was, nor do you know that God was hovering in order to provide light, nor can you prove that no matter where Eden was the day was the same. These are your wild imagination ideas about magical things, no better than a kid's imagination of magical places, magical unicorns and magical tooth fairy! You are a loon and you can't prove me wrong, therefore I need not prove anything to you!

 

[dad]

If you're talking about your magical light, then you DON'T! What is the speed of your magical light EXACTLY? You claim that you know exactly what the speed of light was, then tell us!

Doesn't matter. It was fast enough to get here in creation week. Present light could in no way do that.

And where exactly was the Garden of Eden then? You have no proof that the day was the same, as a matter of fact that contradicts your biggest assumption of a "different past state", and you have no proof to support your claim.

Already answered in another thread.

A day could be 8 hours, 12 hours, 6 months, or as in the case of the "past state" Universe it could be millions and billions of years!

No. We will simply disagree, I covered the case pretty good.

UH, NO, not talking about the past- talking about NOW! We get it because the Earth rotates around itself causing the sun to illuminate 1/2 of the earth while the other 1/2 is dark!

So? Duh, ya think??

You don't know where the Garden of Eden was, nor do you know that God was hovering in order to provide light, nor can you prove that no matter where Eden was the day was the same.

He was hovering. He is known to provide light. No reason exists to rule Him out as a source. None at all.

 

[Guest]

If you're talking about your magical light, then you DON'T! What is the speed of your magical light EXACTLY? You claim that you know exactly what the speed of light was, then tell us!

Doesn't matter. It was fast enough to get here in creation week. Present light could in no way do that.

It DOES matter because you claimed you know EXACTLY how fast it was moving... so you do or you don't?

Already answered in another thread.

No proof that the day was the same.

A day could be 8 hours, 12 hours, 6 months, or as in the case of the "past state" Universe it could be millions and billions of years!

No. We will simply disagree, I covered the case pretty good.

You didn't cover anything. You showed nothing but magical light, magical trees, magical everything, but the only thing that wasn't magical was the day , silly!

UH, NO, not talking about the past- talking about NOW! We get it because the Earth rotates around itself causing the sun to illuminate 1/2 of the earth while the other 1/2 is dark!

So? Duh, ya think??

Just making sure you know what's going on today, because you're really confused to begin with .

You don't know where the Garden of Eden was, nor do you know that God was hovering in order to provide light, nor can you prove that no matter where Eden was the day was the same.

He was hovering. He is known to provide light. No reason exists to rule Him out as a source. None at all.

Reason exists, nowhere does it say that he was hovering and shining light to provide light where there was none. As a matter of fact it specifically says that God created light on Day One, so why would he need to hover?

 

[dad]

It DOES matter because you claimed you know EXACTLY how fast it was moving... so you do or you don't?

No, since it could get here from far stars in creation week, the exact speed matters not. What matters is that is had to be different from today's universe.

No proof that the day was the same.

Well, believe what you like, it is a weak case as far as I can see. The bible days are clear enough.

You didn't cover anything. You showed nothing but magical light, magical trees, magical everything, but the only thing that wasn't magical was the day , silly!

Compared to today's laws, the past was magical, but really, it was simply the natural of the day! What is magic is you proving that this universe was the same. That can't happen. Wand wave all you like.

Just making sure you know what's going on today, ...

Hope I passed the audition.

Reason exists, nowhere does it say that he was hovering and shining light to provide light where there was none. As a matter of fact it specifically says that God created light on Day One, so why would he need to hover?

There was light, because it says He made it right in day 1. It had to be shining. The reason that He moved, and at an altitude, may be in part, to have the light shine as day on part of the earth, dividing the day from the night. Elementary.

 

[Guest]

It DOES matter because you claimed you know EXACTLY how fast it was moving... so you do or you don't?

No, since it could get here from far stars in creation week, the exact speed matters not. What matters is that is had to be different from today's universe.

You say it doesn't matter, but you also said that the speed was known "exactly", so I ask you again: if it were know what the speed was exactly then please let us know. Anything else that you say won't suffice, if you don't answer the question again by providing the EXACT speed of light in its magical state I will assume you don't know anything about it.

No proof that the day was the same.

Well, believe what you like, it is a weak case as far as I can see. The bible days are clear enough.

So is the Bible light, that's clear enough, too!

You didn't cover anything. You showed nothing but magical light, magical trees, magical everything, but the only thing that wasn't magical was the day , silly!

Compared to today's laws, the past was magical, but really, it was simply the natural of the day! What is magic is you proving that this universe was the same. That can't happen. Wand wave all you like.

Indeed, everything else is magical but the day! LOL I'm starting to think that this magical Universe that you're talking about is completely made up LOL... you have a lot of magic going on there, and NO facts . Fabrications are worthless, so when you come up with some real evidence then please bring it forth, so far you haven't even been able to show Biblical evidence (at minimum).

Just making sure you know what's going on today, ...

Hope I passed the audition.

Most people would say "test": "I hope I passed the test."
But the truth is you really don't pass, you tend not to know what's going on period- today, yesterday, tomorrow, 6k years ago...

Reason exists, nowhere does it say that he was hovering and shining light to provide light where there was none. As a matter of fact it specifically says that God created light on Day One, so why would he need to hover?

There was light, because it says He made it right in day 1. It had to be shining. The reason that He moved, and at an altitude, may be in part, to have the light shine as day on part of the earth, dividing the day from the night. Elementary.

All right Sherlock, way to beat a dead horse! So where in the bible does it say that he hovered "at an altitude" and he was providing light for the Earth...
Listen dad, as I pointed out earlier: you have a really wild imagination. When you are so delusional that you believe in magical light, magical trees and magical other things, it's makes it really difficult to have a coherent dialog with you. So get your facts, your story and your mind straight, then we can talk .

 

[dad]

You say it doesn't matter, but you also said that the speed was known "exactly", so I ask you again: if it were know what the speed was exactly then please let us know.

It is known, by the facts of the bible, to be faster than any light that now can exist. Besides, I doubt it had a 'speed'! It could likely get where it needed to go in almost no time, or maybe faster. Yet, a created state universe is also spiritual, so it is sensitive to the will of God!! That means light did not need a uniform speed, it depends where the light was, and IF it needed to get somewhere fast or not.

So is the Bible light, that's clear enough, too!

It clearly got here for created man in creation week, and the life of the created man. No light can do that now, because stars are too far, as we know. No way around it.

Indeed, everything else is magical but the day! LOL I'm starting to think that this magical Universe that you're talking about is completely made up LOL... you have a lot of magic going on there, and NO facts . Fabrications are worthless, so when you come up with some real evidence then please bring it forth, so far you haven't even been able to show Biblical evidence (at minimum).

If you don't like the facts of the bible, as I gave verses for even, fine. Science has no access to any facts relating to the creation universe. You are hooped.

All right Sherlock, way to beat a dead horse! So where in the bible does it say that he hovered "at an altitude" and he was providing light for the Earth...

Well, Watson, He is known to have wheels that fly, as we read in Eze. Also, notice the word OVER here. As opposed to under.
He is KNOWN to hover in the air!!

Eze 10:19 - When the cherubim departed, they lifted their wings and rose up from the earth in my sight with the wheels beside them; and they stood still at the entrance of the east gate of the LORD'S house, and the glory of the God of Israel hovered over them.

Eze 11:22 - Then the cherubim lifted up their wings with the wheels beside them, and the glory of the God of Israel hovered over them.


(Even in a few different translations here for you)

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

Listen dad, as I pointed out earlier: you have a really wild imagination. When you are so delusional that you believe in magical light, magical trees and magical other things, it's makes it really difficult to have a coherent dialog with you. So get your facts, your story and your mind straight, then we can talk .

Heaven, and the new heavens is certainly a different heavens than we now have, with different rules. You can call that magical if you like, just because it seems like it to you. Same with a past that science cannot know the state of.
The light of creation week got here faster that light could get here today. So much so, that it was millions of times faster, and our light can't do that. All science knows is this present universe. My story is straight as straight can be, and well supported by the bible, and in agreement with all science we do have.
No one claims trees grow at new heavens rates now, so no magic is involved. We are talking about the future and different past. There, all is magic.

 

[Guest]

You say it doesn't matter, but you also said that the speed was known "exactly", so I ask you again: if it were know what the speed was exactly then please let us know.

It is known, by the facts of the bible, to be faster than any light that now can exist. Besides, I doubt it had a 'speed'! It could likely get where it needed to go in almost no time, or maybe faster. Yet, a created state universe is also spiritual, so it is sensitive to the will of God!! That means light did not need a uniform speed, it depends where the light was, and IF it needed to get somewhere fast or not.

So is the Bible light, that's clear enough, too!

It clearly got here for created man in creation week, and the life of the created man. No light can do that now, because stars are too far, as we know. No way around it.

You have no proof of anything that you're saying about the speed of light, you are basing your entire argument on presumptions which you can't prove. Period!

Indeed, everything else is magical but the day! LOL I'm starting to think that this magical Universe that you're talking about is completely made up LOL... you have a lot of magic going on there, and NO facts . Fabrications are worthless, so when you come up with some real evidence then please bring it forth, so far you haven't even been able to show Biblical evidence (at minimum).

If you don't like the facts of the bible, as I gave verses for even, fine. Science has no access to any facts relating to the creation universe. You are hooped.

I don't mind the "facts" of the bible, but you showed none. Just because a verse includes the word "day" it doesn't mean that it defines it's length, nor does it mean that if a verse includes the word "light" then we can draw a conclusion that the light was magical. To put it in simple words: your quotes have NOTHING to do with what we're talking about, their topic is completely irrelevant!

All right Sherlock, way to beat a dead horse! So where in the bible does it say that he hovered "at an altitude" and he was providing light for the Earth...

Well, Watson, He is known to have wheels that fly, as we read in Eze. Also, notice the word OVER here. As opposed to under.
He is KNOWN to hover in the air!!

Eze 10:19 - When the cherubim departed, they lifted their wings and rose up from the earth in my sight with the wheels beside them; and they stood still at the entrance of the east gate of the LORD'S house, and the glory of the God of Israel hovered over them.

Eze 11:22 - Then the cherubim lifted up their wings with the wheels beside them, and the glory of the God of Israel hovered over them.

(Even in a few different translations here for you)

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

Again, this has nothing to do with what we're talking about. It says nothing about God hovering around Earth and providing light during creation week. I don't know why you bring it up... it just escapes all logic.

Your comments either point out the fact that God could hover (which nobody disputes), or they point out that God was hovering over the waters before he created light. What you need to do is FOCUS on the topic, we're concerned with your statement that God hovered AND provided light at the same time during the first days of creation. Nowhere does the Bible say that God both hovered about the earth AND provided light AT THE SAME TIME, and there is no mentioning of magical light, etc. There is nothing mentioned anywhere in there!

As I pointed out, just because a certain word is included in a sentence it doesn't mean that the sentence applies to the topic. Focus on the topic and stop fabricating stuff!

Listen dad, as I pointed out earlier: you have a really wild imagination. When you are so delusional that you believe in magical light, magical trees and magical other things, it's makes it really difficult to have a coherent dialog with you. So get your facts, your story and your mind straight, then we can talk .

Heaven, and the new heavens is certainly a different heavens than we now have, with different rules. You can call that magical if you like, just because it seems like it to you. Same with a past that science cannot know the state of.
The light of creation week got here faster that light could get here today. So much so, that it was millions of times faster, and our light can't do that. All science knows is this present universe. My story is straight as straight can be, and well supported by the bible, and in agreement with all science we do have.
No one claims trees grow at new heavens rates now, so no magic is involved. We are talking about the future and different past. There, all is magic.

I told you, your story has so many loose ends that you can't even follow it.

The most basic logic escapes you: according to your claims the "magical light" existed before "the split"; that "magic light" was never visible to humans; "magic light" was responsible for us seeing the stars which are more than 6k light years away; the only light that we see is the "current light".

Again, BASIC LOGIC: we can't see the stars that are more than 6k light years away because the "current light" wouldn't be here yet, and because we were never able to see the "magic light".

 

[dad]

[
You have no proof of anything that you're saying about the speed of light, you are basing your entire argument on presumptions which you can't prove. Period!

No need for proof. I have a bible case. Light got here in creation week, period. So?

I don't mind the "facts" of the bible, but you showed none. Just because a verse includes the word "day" it doesn't mean that it defines it's length, nor does it mean that if a verse includes the word "light" then we can draw a conclusion that the light was magical. To put it in simple words: your quotes have NOTHING to do with what we're talking about, their topic is completely irrelevant!

Yes, plants made a few days before the sun cannot represent long ages.

Again, this has nothing to do with what we're talking about. It says nothing about God hovering around Earth and providing light during creation week. I don't know why you bring it up... it just escapes all logic.

Nor did I say it was supposed to. It establishes that God hovers, and that it means up above. When we read about Him hovering over the planet during creation, you cannot claim that a source of light was not there.

Your comments either point out the fact that God could hover (which nobody disputes), or they point out that God was hovering over the waters before he created light. What you need to do is FOCUS on the topic, we're concerned with your statement that God hovered AND provided light at the same time during the first days of creation. Nowhere does the Bible say that God both hovered about the earth AND provided light AT THE SAME TIME, and there is no mentioning of magical light, etc. There is nothing mentioned anywhere in there!

All light of the different past, or the future is magical to you. A different nature. He did provide light, and hovered the first day. There was no sun. It is reasonable to assume He was the light source. You assume whatever you like.

I told you, your story has so many loose ends that you can't even follow it.

The most basic logic escapes you: according to your claims the "magical light" existed before "the split"; that "magic light" was never visible to humans;

Not at all. Who says the light was not visible, should the observers, animal or man exist? We obviously did not see the light till we were created. But my position is that even the light from the cosmos, and stars was the different light until about 4400 years ago. That means we saw it plenty. The universe change saw our light come to exist.

"magic light" was responsible for us seeing the stars which are more than 6k light years away; the only light that we see is the "current light".

Again, BASIC LOGIC: we can't see the stars that are more than 6k light years away because the "current light" wouldn't be here yet, and because we were never able to see the "magic light".

Not sure why you seem to be unable to grasp the simplicity of the concept. All light was different, until our universe came to be at the split. Then, all light was left as present state light. Whether billions of present light years away, or thousands, it matters not.

 

[Dunzo]

No need for proof. I have a bible case.

:o
:-?
:smt082 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:x

 

[Guest]

[
You have no proof of anything that you're saying about the speed of light, you are basing your entire argument on presumptions which you can't prove. Period!

No need for proof. I have a bible case. Light got here in creation week, period. So?

But you don't even have a "Bible case"... LOL

I don't mind the "facts" of the bible, but you showed none. Just because a verse includes the word "day" it doesn't mean that it defines it's length, nor does it mean that if a verse includes the word "light" then we can draw a conclusion that the light was magical. To put it in simple words: your quotes have NOTHING to do with what we're talking about, their topic is completely irrelevant!

Yes, plants made a few days before the sun cannot represent long ages.

Irrelevant!

Again, this has nothing to do with what we're talking about. It says nothing about God hovering around Earth and providing light during creation week. I don't know why you bring it up... it just escapes all logic.

Nor did I say it was supposed to. It establishes that God hovers, and that it means up above. When we read about Him hovering over the planet during creation, you cannot claim that a source of light was not there.

I can claim that the source of light wasn't there because NOWHERE is it said that it was! Nowhere does it say that God was hovering in order to provide light! PERIOD!

Your comments either point out the fact that God could hover (which nobody disputes), or they point out that God was hovering over the waters before he created light. What you need to do is FOCUS on the topic, we're concerned with your statement that God hovered AND provided light at the same time during the first days of creation. Nowhere does the Bible say that God both hovered about the earth AND provided light AT THE SAME TIME, and there is no mentioning of magical light, etc. There is nothing mentioned anywhere in there!

All light of the different past, or the future is magical to you. A different nature. He did provide light, and hovered the first day. There was no sun. It is reasonable to assume He was the light source. You assume whatever you like.

You called it "magical", I don't care about the semantics: fast light, past light, magical light... It doesn't matter what you want to call it, it didn't exist and you have no proof that it did. Your "deductions" are wrong, nowhere in the bible does it say that there was a different light, YOU HAVE NO CASE!

I told you, your story has so many loose ends that you can't even follow it.

The most basic logic escapes you: according to your claims the "magical light" existed before "the split"; that "magic light" was never visible to humans;

Not at all. Who says the light was not visible, should the observers, animal or man exist? We obviously did not see the light till we were created. But my position is that even the light from the cosmos, and stars was the different light until about 4400 years ago. That means we saw it plenty. The universe change saw our light come to exist.

What this means is that anything past 4400/6000 light years (distance) has to be "magical light" even today, because the "present light" couldn't get here that quick. I'm telling you, basic logic escapes you!

"magic light" was responsible for us seeing the stars which are more than 6k light years away; the only light that we see is the "current light".

Again, BASIC LOGIC: we can't see the stars that are more than 6k light years away because the "current light" wouldn't be here yet, and because we were never able to see the "magic light".

Not sure why you seem to be unable to grasp the simplicity of the concept. All light was different, until our universe came to be at the split. Then, all light was left as present state light. Whether billions of present light years away, or thousands, it matters not.

It matters how far it is because as I told you, anything past 4400 light years away would NOT be visible because the so called "current" light is too slow to get here that fast. Yet we are seeing the stars beyond 4400 light years away and it's not because of some "magical light", we are seeing the "current" light. This is the most basic of logic that ANYBODY can employ and you can't even do that... How can you not understand the most basic logic? I am simply amazed by your lack of cognitive reasoning!

 

[Guest]

No need for proof. I have a bible case.

:o
:-?
:smt082 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:x

:crazyeyes: The most basic of logic escapes him:
He claims that the "magical light" replaced "fast light" at the time of "the split", and this "split" happened 4400 years ago. By his own accounts: we are not seeing the "fast/magical" light anymore. The most basic of logic dictates that:
1. We would not bee seeing stars beyond 4400 light years (distance) because the "slow/present" light is too slow to get here that fast.
2. Therefore the only way to see the stars beyond 4400 light years (distance) is if we're seeing the "magical light", but as I pointed out even by Dad's own accounts we are not seeing the "fast/magical light".

Since the blatant contradiction is exposed, we can safely assume that there couldn't have possibly been anything such as "fast light", else it would be visible now or the stars beyond 4400 light years would NOT be visible now. And since we're not seeing "fast light", the only thing that we can conclude is that "slow light" has existed long enough to travel billions of years in order to get here from stars billions of light years away!

This is as basic of logic as it can get, yet Dad fails even at this! I can't make it any simpler, nor could he comprehend it even if I did!

 

[dad]

I can claim that the source of light wasn't there because NOWHERE is it said that it was! Nowhere does it say that God was hovering in order to provide light! PERIOD!

It is inferred, because the day was divided from the night already! No other source, but God, a biblically known light source is given. Elementary.

You called it "magical", I don't care about the semantics: fast light, past light, magical light... It doesn't matter what you want to call it, it didn't exist and you have no proof that it did. Your "deductions" are wrong, nowhere in the bible does it say that there was a different light, YOU HAVE NO CASE!

It had to exist if it got to earth in a man's life time from far stars. Elementary.

What this means is that anything past 4400/6000 light years (distance) has to be "magical light" even today, because the "present light" couldn't get here that quick. I'm telling you, basic logic escapes you!

No! It means ALL light, near and far is present light now. Do you thinkk that light stopped coming to earth at any time after creation? No. That is utterly absurd.

It matters how far it is because as I told you, anything past 4400 light years away would NOT be visible because the so called "current" light is too slow to get here that fast. Yet we are seeing the stars beyond 4400 light years away and it's not because of some "magical light", we are seeing the "current" light. This is the most basic of logic that ANYBODY can employ and you can't even do that... How can you not understand the most basic logic? I am simply amazed by your lack of cognitive reasoning!

The universe and it's former light were left in this state. So light THEN was our light, and continued to come in as such.

 

[Guest]

I can claim that the source of light wasn't there because NOWHERE is it said that it was! Nowhere does it say that God was hovering in order to provide light! PERIOD!

It is inferred, because the day was divided from the night already! No other source, but God, a biblically known light source is given. Elementary.

Nope, you're just really confused. Nothing like that is inferred!

You called it "magical", I don't care about the semantics: fast light, past light, magical light... It doesn't matter what you want to call it, it didn't exist and you have no proof that it did. Your "deductions" are wrong, nowhere in the bible does it say that there was a different light, YOU HAVE NO CASE!

It had to exist if it got to earth in a man's life time from far stars. Elementary.

Nope, as I said, you are a very confused person. See below why your argument fails by default!

What this means is that anything past 4400/6000 light years (distance) has to be "magical light" even today, because the "present light" couldn't get here that quick. I'm telling you, basic logic escapes you!

No! It means ALL light, near and far is present light now. Do you thinkk that light stopped coming to earth at any time after creation? No. That is utterly absurd.

Well you tell me: how did light from the stars which are 50k light years away get here in 4400 years? You say it's elementary, but it's obvious that elementary logic escapes you!

It matters how far it is because as I told you, anything past 4400 light years away would NOT be visible because the so called "current" light is too slow to get here that fast. Yet we are seeing the stars beyond 4400 light years away and it's not because of some "magical light", we are seeing the "current" light. This is the most basic of logic that ANYBODY can employ and you can't even do that... How can you not understand the most basic logic? I am simply amazed by your lack of cognitive reasoning!

The universe and it's former light were left in this state. So light THEN was our light, and continued to come in as such.

Whatever that's supposed to mean, it still doesn't explain why we're seeing stars which are millions of light years away when we only have the "current light". The current light would need to travel millions of years in order to get here, yet you claim we got our "current light" 4400 years ago. Basic (elementary) logic dictates that if the light only existed for 4400 years anything beyond 4400 light years would not be visible yet, because the light wouldn't be here yet! This is as ELEMENTARY as it gets, yet you don't seem to understand the MOST BASIC OF LOGIC!

 

[dad]

Nope, you're just really confused. Nothing like that is inferred!

Well, more than inferred, the fact that day was separated from the darkness is in black and white.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

So, yes to have day and night, a light source is needed. One that moves!!!

Well you tell me: how did light from the stars which are 50k light years away get here in 4400 years? You say it's elementary, but it's obvious that elementary logic escapes you!

No, there was is no such thing as 50k real light years. Light years can ONLY be used for distance and is meaningless to any real time, except since the split. The starlight that is, (in distance) 50 ly away got here in creation week. It was really not more than days away. Not thousands of years. Same with light at any distance that got here.

Whatever that's supposed to mean, it still doesn't explain why we're seeing stars which are millions of light years away when we only have the "current light".

Yes, it sure does. Our light started to exist at the onset of the temporary universe state we are in. It is the bits of the former light that can exist in this state. It kept coming in as it now is. the different light had no current universe limits!