[__ Science __ ] Genesis chapter 1, the creation vs. Science. (1/3)

[Barbarian]

You are a nit-picker.

Words have meanings. If you don't use them as they are understood, you will always be misunderstood.

No... day does not require the sun.

By definition, "morning" does. So does "noon", for that matter.

Your narrow vision of the world may require it, but mine and God's view of the world do not.

I'm pretty sure God uses words correctly. Which is why we know that the days of creation are not literal days.

 

[dwb001]

You said "nuclear reaction." Which it isn't. Nuclear reactions involve fissioning nucleii.
The sun does fusion, a thermonuclear reaction that fuses two nucleii together.
It might seem like the same thing to some people, but it's the complete opposite.

Learn about it here:

Fission and Fusion: What is the Difference?

Learn the difference between fission and fusion - two physical processes that produce massive amounts of energy from atoms.

www.energy.gov

Yes there is a difference.
But both are examples of nuclear reactions.

 

[Barbarian]

And nuclear is in the name... so it is the same sort of thing.

It's like saying "hyperthermia and hypothermia are the same sort of thing." They are completely opposite. Yes, they may sound alike if you don't understand them, but they are very different things, even if "thermia" is in both words.

 

[dwb001]

You said "nuclear reaction." Which it isn't. Nuclear reactions involve fissioning nucleii.
The sun does fusion, a thermonuclear reaction that fuses two nucleii together.
It might seem like the same thing to some people, but it's the complete opposite.

Learn about it here:

Fission and Fusion: What is the Difference?

Learn the difference between fission and fusion - two physical processes that produce massive amounts of energy from atoms.

www.energy.gov

Encyclopedia Britannica:
The mass of the Sun, M☉, is 743 times the total mass of all the planets in the solar system and 330,000 times that of Earth. All the interesting planetary and interplanetary gravitational phenomena are negligible effects in comparison to the force exerted by the Sun. Under the force of gravity, the great mass of the Sun presses inward, and to keep the star from collapsing, the central pressure outward must be great enough to support its weight. The density at the Sun’s core is about 100 times that of water (roughly six times that at the centre of Earth), but the temperature is at least 15,000,000 K, so the central pressure is at least 10,000 times greater than that at the centre of Earth, which is 3,500 kilobars. The nuclei of atoms are completely stripped of their electrons, and at this high temperature they collide to produce the nuclear reactions that are responsible for generating the energy vital to life on Earth.

 

[dwb001]

You said "nuclear reaction." Which it isn't. Nuclear reactions involve fissioning nucleii.
The sun does fusion, a thermonuclear reaction that fuses two nucleii together.
It might seem like the same thing to some people, but it's the complete opposite.

Learn about it here:

Fission and Fusion: What is the Difference?

Learn the difference between fission and fusion - two physical processes that produce massive amounts of energy from atoms.

www.energy.gov

Both fission and fusion are nuclear reactions that produce energy, but the processes are very different. Fission is the splitting of a heavy, unstable nucleus into two lighter nuclei, and fusion is the process where two light nuclei combine together releasing vast amounts of energy.27 May 2021

https://nuclear.duke-energy.com/202...d fusion are,releasing vast amounts of energy.

 

[Barbarian]

Both fission and fusion are nuclear reactions that produce energy,

No, fusion is a thermonuclear reaction, the precise opposite of nuclear reactions:

Fission vs. Fusion – What’s the Difference?​

Fission vs. Fusion – What’s the Difference?

Look up during the day to see one of the most powerful examples of a nuclear reactor: the sun. Inside the sun, fusion reactions take place at very high temperatures and enormous gravitational pressures The foundation of nuclear energy is harnessing the...

nuclear.duke-energy.com

Read the link and learn about it. And this is one reason you don't go to encyclopedias to get scientific terms. Read the link and you'll understand.

 

[dwb001]

No, fusion is a thermonuclear reaction, the precise opposite of nuclear reactions:

Fission vs. Fusion – What’s the Difference?​

Fission vs. Fusion – What’s the Difference?

Look up during the day to see one of the most powerful examples of a nuclear reactor: the sun. Inside the sun, fusion reactions take place at very high temperatures and enormous gravitational pressures The foundation of nuclear energy is harnessing the...

nuclear.duke-energy.com

Read the link and learn about it. And this is one reason you don't go to encyclopedias to get scientific terms. Read the link and you'll understand.

Taken from your link:
Both fission and fusion are nuclear reactions that produce energy, but the processes are very different. Fission is the splitting of a heavy, unstable nucleus into two lighter nuclei, and fusion is the process where two light nuclei combine together releasing vast amounts of energy. While different, the two processes have an important role in the past, present and future of energy creation.

Maybe you should read the last paragraph before posting a link that debunks your own faulty ideas.

 

[Barbarian]

The difference between thermonuclear reactions and nuclear reactions, is as the link points out, thermonuclear reactions happen in the sun, while nuclear reactions do not. It is wrong to say that thermonuclear reactions are nuclear reactions.

 

[dwb001]

The difference between thermonuclear reactions and nuclear reactions, is as the link points out, thermonuclear reactions happen in the sun, while nuclear reactions do not. It is wrong to say that thermonuclear reactions are nuclear reactions.

The link you provided says that fission and fusion are both nuclear reactions.
If you can't read your own references that is not my problem.
I am quoting your references.

Now I remember why you are on my ignore list.
You refuse to accept a contrary fact even when you provide the facts that prove you wrong.

Why is this such an issue for you?
You provide a link that says they are both nuclear reactions... then say the link says they are not nuclear reactions.
Which one is it?

 

[Barbarian]

Just pointing out that thermonuclear reactions are different than nuclear reactions. As you see, they are entirely different and do entirely different things. Does it impact on the fact that a sun must exist for morning and evening to be? No. really doesn't.

 

[dwb001]

Just pointing out that thermonuclear reactions are different than nuclear reactions. As you see, they are entirely different and do entirely different things. Does it impact on the fact that a sun must exist for morning and evening to be? No. really doesn't.

Sorry to say that all your proof sources for your opinion show that you are wrong.
A thermonuclear reaction is a nuclear reaction, as per all your supplied links... and mine.
Why does the Bible say morning and evening on days 1-3 then say the Sun was created?

Morning is when there is light in the sky, and night is when there is darkness.
Nothing in that definition requires a sun.
It only requires light.

 

[Highway54]

My following knowledge was acquired long time ago from a well known pastor and eschatology from a guy.

The 6 days of creation was often attacked by non believers, they said no facts and not scientific, indeed it was, due to most of our knowledge and theological explanations. So today, I'm going to clear up this vague.

First of all, just ignore all the theology explanations, and let us base on the bible words itself. In order to explain it correctly, we have to explain the words exactly, cannot add nor minus, cannot distorted, and also conform to science.

"Created" appear on verse 1, and "made" on fifth day, and "created" on sixth day of human creation, aside from these, first to fourth day, the bible didn't said it is created or made.

Next we observed, water is already existed before day 1, See verse 2:

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Base on above, we can now say that God really created the universe, the earth, the sun and all of them, but it just the earth became without form... note the original text "earth was without form" can be translated to "earth became without form" It is not possible for God to create an earth without form, or darkness, and so God already created a beautiful earth before verse 1, how beautiful? there are dinosaurs and all sorts of prehistoric animals, plants etc... how long have it be been? wee don't know, but base on science, we do have some knowledge about those billions years ago's earth.

Now we think, who or how the beautiful world of prehistoric destroyed? Ans. Satan is already exist before verse 1, our world now is more or less 10 thousand years. It is a correct assumption that Satan destroyed prehistoric world.

So the assumption, when God use water to flood all over the earth, the surface of the water was covered heavily by clouds, and so the sun light cannot shine thru, note that only "darkness was upon the face of the deep." and other places were not, because outer space, sun and others were already exist, already created.

Then God said "let there be light, and there was light", this light is absolutely from the sun, because only the sun can let the earth having "night" and "day", and so every day of re-creation is ended in "And the evening was, and the morning was etc."

conclusion: verse 1's "in the beginning", in original text, is later than that John 1:1's "in the beginning" so this is the flow... John 1:1 literally said that the universe haven't existed yet, not even time, space and matter existed, and then Genesis 1:1, God created time, in the time container, then God created space (heaven) in it, then in the space-time container, God created matters (earth) in it. So actually verse 1 is God created the universe, including earth and also everything on earth, dinosaurs... they are just not written down, and even if write down all those creation in the bible, how can they understand those creatures? obviously not at ancient time, we know now that is because of science and technology.

to be continue...

You may be thinking they were 6 24 hour days Moody, but that is incorrect sir. The creative days were time periods, and may not even have been of the same length. What can help us to understand that the earth is much older than 7000 yrs? The fact that in the first century Paul stated we were still in the 7th day, the day of God's rest. Take note of this passage sir:
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;
Heb 4:5 and in this [place] again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience,

I believe we are still in that rest period Moody, but at least they were in the first century when Paul penned that, showing that the 7th day was much longer than 24 hrs, so logically they were too, such as saying about your grandfather you say in his day, indicating a time period rather than a singular day. It all falls into understanding of words. Bob

 

[dwb001]

You may be thinking they were 6 24 hour days Moody, but that is incorrect sir. The creative days were time periods, and may not even have been of the same length. What can help us to understand that the earth is much older than 7000 yrs? The fact that in the first century Paul stated we were still in the 7th day, the day of God's rest. Take note of this passage sir:
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works;
Heb 4:5 and in this [place] again, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience,

I believe we are still in that rest period Moody, but at least they were in the first century when Paul penned that, showing that the 7th day was much longer than 24 hrs, so logically they were too, such as saying about your grandfather you say in his day, indicating a time period rather than a singular day. It all falls into understanding of words. Bob

So why is it important to you that the Earth be old?
Do you require an old Earth for your evolutionary beliefs?
Do you need for Earth to be old so that you can call other parts of the Bible you disagree with as a metaphor?
Why would you not believe what God said when He said there was days with mornings and evenings(which definitely indicate 24hr days to me)?

 

[Barbarian]

Morning is when there is light in the sky, and night is when there is darkness.

No. If that was true moonrise would be morning.

So why is it important to you that the Earth be old?

It's important to God to be so. I merely conclude that He has it right.

Do you require an old Earth for your evolutionary beliefs?

As you know, evolution is an observed process. So it wouldn't matter. If someone poofed the world into existence last tuesday, evolution would work exactly as it does not.

Do you need for Earth to be old so that you can call other parts of the Bible you disagree with as a metaphor?

I merely agree with it as it is. Creationists have to add new doctrines to make it agreeable to them. I have no idea why you don't agree with what God said, but fortunately, the age of the Earth is not a salvation issue,so it doesn't matter where it really counts.

 

[Barbarian]

You may be thinking they were 6 24 hour days Moody, but that is incorrect sir. The creative days were time periods, and may not even have been of the same length. What can help us to understand that the earth is much older than 7000 yrs? The fact that in the first century Paul stated we were still in the 7th day, the day of God's rest. Take note of this passage sir:

Fact is, whether you think the world is younger than 10,000 years, or you think the days of the creation story are ages of various length, or you think the creation days are figurative, it really doesn't matter to the message God is giving you therein. Get that right,and you're all right.

 

[dwb001]

No. If that was true moonrise would be morning.

What do you mean about moonrise?
I have no idea where you get this idea from.

It's important to God to be so. I merely conclude that He has it right.

Where does God say the Earth is old?
I read that the Earth is young... as God says.

As you know, evolution is an observed process. So it wouldn't matter. If someone poofed the world into existence last tuesday, evolution would work exactly as it does not.

Your point does not make sense.
Evolution would remove the need for Jesus.

I merely agree with it as it is. Creationists have to add new doctrines to make it agreeable to them. I have no idea why you don't agree with what God said, but fortunately, the age of the Earth is not a salvation issue,so it doesn't matter where it really counts.

The age of the Earth is salvational. If God was being untruthful about the age of the Earth in the first book... why would you trust anything else in the book?
If the age of the Earth doesn't matter... why are you debating it?

 

[Highway54]

So why is it important to you that the Earth be old?
Do you require an old Earth for your evolutionary beliefs?
Do you need for Earth to be old so that you can call other parts of the Bible you disagree with as a metaphor?
Why would you not believe what God said when He said there was days with mornings and evenings(which definitely indicate 24hr days to me)?

Doesn't matter to me sir, but Christians do strive to be accurate in their teachings. That is why I showed you that the 7th day is longer than 24 hours, so logically the first 6 was as well. Since opinions vary on this, it will be one of those things that will be settled after the Kingdom comes D.

 

[Highway54]

Fact is, whether you think the world is younger than 10,000 years, or you think the days of the creation story are ages of various length, or you think the creation days are figurative, it really doesn't matter to the message God is giving you therein. Get that right,and you're all right.

Couldn't agree more sir, the fact that the creation account is so vague shows how important it is to God for us to know it. It was basically just a summary of how we came about.

 

[dwb001]

Doesn't matter to me sir, but Christians do strive to be accurate in their teachings. That is why I showed you that the 7th day is longer than 24 hours, so logically the first 6 was as well. Since opinions vary on this, it will be one of those things that will be settled after the Kingdom comes D.

When I enter my house.... do I spend all the remaining time on the doorstep/porch?
When God enters His rest... does He spend all eternity at the entry way?

How about if I am right you make me a smoothie from the Tree of Life every month for the first 100 years of eternity.
And if you are right... I will gladly treat you to a smoothie every month for the first 100 years.

 

[Barbarian]

The age of the Earth is salvational.

I realize some modern believers think so. Let's ask Jesus what determines where your eternal home will be...

Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Nothing there about the age of the Earth... let's look further...

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Looking further...

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38] This is the greatest and the first commandment. [39] And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

Nope. Sorry. No theology will save you. A heart tuned to God and your fellow man will save you, if you act on it. When the Good Thief on the cross admitted his guilt and asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom, Jesus did not say "Hold up. How old do you think the Earth is? He said to the man, "This day you will be with me in Paradise."