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Gnosticism!

ÃÂoppleganger said:
Gnostics call it that not me, christianity isn't transcendentalism either. IF faith and salvation were based on it most people would die a 2nd spirtual death anyways. Thats the message of the gospels & Epistles. Your message doesn't come from the Bible and you can't show me any proof it does! Only certain people, special people can have that! Well God gave many gifts to man I don't ever read Transcendence being 1 of them. I was given the gift of prophecy once! And it totally came true. I don't need your fake religion to enlighten me, Thank-you very much!?!
Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Proverbs 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Job 15:2 Should a wise man utter vain knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind? {vain...: Heb. knowledge of wind}

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. {law: or, doctrine} {converting: or, restoring}

Psalms 107:43 Whoso is wise, and will observe these things, even they shall understand the lovingkindness of the LORD.

Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

Ecclesiastes 9:17 The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.

Ecclesiastes 8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment. {shall...: Heb. shall know}

Isaiah 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! {in their own sight: Heb. before their face}

Proverbs 24:23 These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.

Jeremiah 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain. {in vain made...: or, the false pen of the scribes worketh for falsehood}

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools


Amen ÃÂoppleganger!

Such nonsense as many of these gnostic pushers present on these boards is pure rubbish, perversions of the teachings in the bible.
As far as I am concerned, they are in the same category as Dan Brown! and they only present deception of truth!
Way too many Gnostics are very adept at luring the innocent Christian, who is still only on the milk of the word, into a den of sensuality of self aggrandizement... A den of "feelings" in which they feed on and get high on!

And, those who are privy to the deceptive ways of these liberal gnostics, know that demons present themselves as angels of light! Many of the gnostics uplift self and honor the inverted experience. The gnostics get high on their own "feelings" of being enlightened! They speak half truths and then go on to ignore what Christianity is really all about! Christianity is not about transcendence or yoga positions or meditating on "emptying" your mind! It is not about the experience of self and feelings you get from going inward! The essence of many of these gnostic mystics and their teachings is to look inward and to get high on self, to high on "feelings", with or without the aid of some kind of drug! Drugs are allowed if they want. It's based on a "personal" perference. Though some do not use drugs as an aid. It's a "personal" experience that is not totally reliant on the 'HOLY" Spirit of JHVH GD. They rely on the spirit alright! But it is NOT the 'HOLY" Spirit of JHVH GD. The think that all spirits are special. And they totally take for granted the teachings of the characters of "spirit", as taught in the bible!

So then, I must say, that is not what Christ Jesus is all about! Not at all!
This Transcendence rubbish is so very misleading!

Many of the gnostics allow astrology and Tarot classes to be held in the basements of their churches. They allow hypnotism as a form of therapy, they allow homosexuality is being acceptable to them and they also allow wiccans to practice their rituals as usual. The gnostics do not the teach the true meaning and value of repentance, at all! Instead they accept all forms of heathenism, paganism, and mysticism from their members personal preferences to be practiced. They don't encourage anyone to change hedonistic behaviors, but they allow it even in the basements of their church buildings! :o

The gnostic churches are the most liberal, "unity/universalists" churches you will find on the planet!

Before I got serious about Jesus Christ being in my life and allowing His Holy Spirit to work on transforming my life, I frequented plenty of those kinds of Churches! And found so much deception in their practices and teachings! I was shocked at what I saw! Totally shocked!

Most gnostics don't teach repentance of any kind! As a matter of fact, many of them exclude any mention of repentance for application in their lives, and instead they pass off a false teachings about what grace is, and they proceed to teach falsely that grace is the excuse for having reason to carry on as they want to. They don't preach to "GO AND SIN NO MORE". Except, they continue IN their sins, and don't see anything the "world" considers as being "mysticism" as being a sin at all. :-? They don't consider many of the pagan religions as being against the truth in the gospels, but they consider pagan religions as being in unity with spirit of love. :o

Rubbish teachings! They twist and pervert the truth about the meaning of what is HOLY and what is NOT HOLY! They think that the Kingdom of Heaven is within "themselves" BUT they leave out the fact that the only way to receive the truth about the Kingdom of Heaven is to FOLLOW the teachings of the TORAH, Which by the way, ARE the teachings JESUS LIVED BY and taught! He of course rebuked the Pharisees from being ritualistic and haughty, but Jesus DID NOT eliminate the truth about what is HOLY and what is NOT HOLY!

The gnostics ignore the truth of what is considered HOLY and what is considered NOT HOLY, as stated in the BIBLE. They insist that the writings of the gnostics are acceptable. But in fact, even Paul the apostle of Christ Jesus rebuked those who followed after the gnostics!

Shame, such a shame, that these people here who preach others to follow after the gnostics are allowed to continue to do so without being banned from this place. Such a shame that young Christians who come here are lead to the den of these thieves! They steal and destroy the truth right out from under the innocent young Christians. Those who are still feeding on the milk of the scriptures.


Beware of the Gnostics! There is much deception in their teachings. They take you on paths that are full of self aggrandizement and fantasy! They take you on that path to some kind of a hippy high! It is all misleading and only leads to a dead end, emptiness. There is no "real salvation from sin" in those teachings of the gnostics! Instead, the gnostics accept many forms of idolatry, hedonism, and false gods as being a way to enlightenment.

Only Christ Jesus teaches salvation from ALL sin! There is no other teaching that teaches salvation from sin by way of taking up your own cross and following Jesus! Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life. Not some Mystic of Buddha or Guru, or Transcendent experience!

Mysticism is a form of idolatry and hedonism! So beware of the gnostics in their acceptance of many forms of mysticism and liberal acceptance of paganism in many different forms!


.
 
Soma Sight, what do you consider yourself? A Gnostic? Orthodox? or some kind of hybrid?

I had a vision of Jesus Christ as He was in the Garden of Gethsemane plain as day. I have wrote about it before.

IT WAS THE SINGLE MOST AMAZING EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE.

Is this kind of experience Orthodox? Probably not....

Is this kind of experience Gnostic? Possibly?

Am I a hybrid? Probably....
 
Relic,

I guess you imply that there are no Gnostics that Love Jesus and try to live a Holy life to the best of their abilities?

lol.

Why the anger?

No where that I have seen do Gnostic proponents say "Do what thy wilt" and just get "high".

What a misrepresentation you spew.

Is it evil to seek God DIRECTLY? (without Church mediation and doctrinal prerequistes?)

Is it Satanic to want to experience the LIVING GOD JESUS CHRIST in your own life rather than just as an idea?

Is it a doctrine of Devils to ask Jesus to "live through you"?


If you answered NO to any of these than you may have a "Gnostic" bent.

There are so many "forms" of Gnosticism now just like there are many forms of Protestantism etc. There is no "fundamentals of Gnosticism" as it is an evolving belief system.

But one thing is certain....

GNOSTICS (that I know) BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST AS LORD AND SAVIOUR WHICH IS ALL THAT REALLY MATTERS IN THE END.
 
Unlike Hermeticism and Neoplatonism, which as spiritual philosophies do not depend on a particular "external" religious figure for salvation, Gnosticism, like Christianity, is very much a Divine Savior-orientated belief-system. The difference is that according Christian doctrine the supernatural Savior confers Love but at the same time denies Knowledge and self-effort ("not through works but through faith", etc); while in Gnosticism - whether Christian, Sethian, or some other form - the Savior confers spiritual Knowledge (Gnosis) yet at the same time dose not negate spiritual self-effort. In Gnosticism then, Christ is not a blood-sacrifice figure who has to be tortured and executed to atone for man's guilt and sin, but rather a messenger of saving Knowledge, very much like the Buddha who taught the way to Enlightenment and Nirvana.

And while the Christian religion, being profoundly anti-metaphysical, simply equates Christ with God-Almighty (while further befuddling things with the three-in-one Trinity; Constantines' politically expedient creation at the Council of Nicea), the Gnostic cosmology sees the Savior as simply one emanated Divine Principle among many.


http://www.kheper.net/topics/Gnosticism/savior.html
 
Gnosis in general

Although Gnosis is usually thought of as an aspect of "religion", it in fact differs from religion or "Faith" in one extremely important respect. With Religion, knowledge of higher things is not realised intuitively, but rather enforced as a body of knowledge - a dogma or revelation - imposed from without, e.g. Bible, Koran, Gita, etc. In the more extreme forms of religion, the so-called "fundamentalist" tendency, the believer is expected to accept this revelation without question.

With Gnosis, one may indeed be inspired or stimulated by external teachings and revelations, but the essential knowledge comes from within. What this means basically is that there are as many Gnostic teachings as there are Gnostics, and vice-versa. A modern-day gnostic may be (and in fact usually is) a part of some tradition (Sufi, Kabbalistic, Tantric, Christian, etc), but he/she will always interpret that tradition in an individual way.

If one could sum up the differences between "Western" materialism, religion, and Gnosticism and also "Eastern" religion and philosophy, one could say that the "Western" position is more concerned with the "Manifest", with the creation, nature, and ultimate purpose of the cosmos and of man/woman. This is so both in the case of exoteric or conventional religion - Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Baha'ism, and the secular religion of Marxism - and esoteric gnosis - Gnosticism, Neoplatonism, Manichaeism, Ishraqism, Sufism, Kabbalah, Theosophy, and Anthroposophy. In contrast the "Eastern" position is more concerned with the "Unmanifest", with the Transcendent and how to attain It. Of course, putting things simply in this way is to be guilty of gross over-generalisation, and I would add that there are very many exceptions to the rule on both sides.



http://www.kheper.net/topics/Gnosticism/intro.htm
 
I totally agree Relic ! Thank - you. Thank you very much !! O by the way Soma, the Owl is a symbol of the Bohemian Grove, Molech and Paganism. And it only takes 3 licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop! Now theres a wise Owl?!?
 
I totally agree Relic ! Thank - you. Thank you very much !! O by the way Soma, the Owl is a symbol of the Bohemian Grove, Molech and Paganism. And it only takes 3 licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop! Now theres a wise Owl?!?

I wonder if anyone ran that by the Owl? That he symbolizes George W. Bush worshipping a huge Owl idol god up in Northern Cali?

I doubt it.....

By the Way....

You know all those "Jesus Fish" stickers you see on the cars of Fundamentalist Cristians???

The fish symbol has been used for millennia worldwide as a religious symbol associated with the Pagan Great Mother Goddess.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_symb.htm
 
The fish symbol has been used for millennia worldwide as a religious symbol associated with the Pagan Great Mother Goddess.

- Yes! Some interesting information: The sign of the fish is widely used as a symbol of Christianity, but originated in Pagan sacred geometry. Two circles, symbolic of spirit and matter, are brought together in sacred marriage. When the circumference of one touches the center of the other they combine to produce the fish shape known as vesica piscis. The ration of height to length of this shape is 153:265, a formula know to Archimedes in the third century BCE as the "measure of the fish". It is a powerful mathematical tool, being the nearest to whole number approximation of the square root of three and the controlling ration of the equilateral triangle.

- Interesting stuff, especially when you read in the Gospel of John when Jesus helps his disicples catch a large amount of fish, and that number is 153. Heh.
 
Hey, I have a great idea! Let's all believe everything we read on the Internet, especially from the Religious "Tolerance" site!

Come on guys, your reasoning is very fallacious. The fish became a symboly of Christianity because the Greek name for "fish," ichthus, forms the acrostic (in Greek letters of course): Jesus Christ God's Son Saviour. Not to mention the miraculous stories involving fish.
 
The New Agers are so easily misled...

Free said:
Hey, I have a great idea! Let's all believe everything we read on the Internet, especially from the Religious "Tolerance" site!

Come on guys, your reasoning is very fallacious. The fish became a symboly of Christianity because the Greek name for "fish," ichthus, forms the acrostic (in Greek letters of course): Jesus Christ God's Son Saviour. Not to mention the miraculous stories involving fish.
Thanks Free and Relic and ÃÂoppleganger for bringing some sense to this thread. How easily some are misled....

fish.jpg


To support Free's explanation, here is another quote:

Karen and Walter Gast said:
The initial letters of the Greek phrase "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior" form the Greek word ICHTHUS, which means "fish." This symbol was used by believers in the early days of persecution as a secret sign of their shared faith. One person would draw an arc in the sand, and the other would complete the sign to show his brotherhood in Christ.
Source: http://home.att.net/~wegast/symbols/symbols.htm (under "fish")

Great site for Christian symbols:
http://home.att.net/~wegast/symbols/symbols.htm

symbnner.jpg
 
Yea, I know about all that stuff it dont fool me

FirstV_2_03.gif


I got ur fishy rt here - no pun or offense intended :angel:

boeotian.jpg

Nice Swaztikas too maybe that means the circle of life?!?
This is a Boeotian funerary amphora! Hope she was a Christian?!?
(I hope these pics aren't banned by the moderators I meant no offense, I'm merely trying to demonstrate gnostic new age symbols aren't Christian!)

Its how people use it - who uses it - and its intended purpose

Its just like these gNOSTIC 's that question Pauls writings, they forget that Paul became nearly blind by the end of his life, and many letters ascribed to him were dictated by others; Philemon being an excellent example of this. More Than Likely the dictators of these texts, added there own style as well. Philemons subject Onesimus is a play on words between greek and latin meanings. Here Paul salutes Mark and Luke using Latin verbage!

24 Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.

2 Thessalonians 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

Dont use word games with me it wont work!
 
The Bands That Connect The Two Fishes Of Pisces

In Job 38:31 "Loose the bands of Orion." Job 9:9 refers to bind or loose the tie, implying to loosening of the bands by which the constellation Orion is held fast.

Bands is from Heb. mowshekah, mo-shek-aw’, active particle feminine of Heb. mashak, maw-shak’, to draw, thus something drawing, i.e. (fig.) a cord, band. Also found is the Heb. mowser, mo-sare’, also (in plural) feminine mowserah, mo-say-raw’, or moserah, mo-ser-aw’, from Heb. yasar, yaw-sar’, to chastise, properly chastisement, a halter, restraint, band, bond.

The band or bridle which connects these two fishes is tied to the back of the head of Cetus, The Sea Monster. As the story goes we are born in bondage to sin. Man is not free, he is bound with a chain to Satan who turns us wherever he wishes. This is the bondage that Christ has redeemed us from. The other intersection is that the foreleg of Aries, The Ram (or Lamb), is a picture of Christ with his paw placed on those Bands tied to the Sea Monster, which portrays Christ as taking the bridle in His own hand. He redeems us from the monster Cetus (Satan) and sets us free.

One fish moves toward the Polestar and the other along the ecliptic. The first fish may be the Old Testament saints already taken by Christ to heaven, to the extreme north. Revelation 14:4 "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth". The other fish is following the Son (Sun) in the ecliptic (the Sun’s path through the heavens) a picture of what the Church should be.

Here Aries the Ram Cuts the ties that Bind
http://philologos.org/__eb-tws/images/24aries.gif

This is not to be confused with this ->

The fish headdress of the priests of Ea-Sumero-Semitic-Romanish God later becoming the miter of Christian bishops.
OR
In Greece the Greek word "delphos" meant both fish and womb. The word is derived from the location of the ancient Oracle at Delphi who worshipped the original fish goddess, Themis. The later fish Goddess, Aphrodite Salacia, was worshipped by her followers on her sacred day, Friday. They ate fish and engaging in orgies. From her name comes the English word "salacious" which means lustful or obscene. Also from her name comes the name of our fourth month, April. In later centuries, the Christian church absorbed this tradition by requiring the faithful to eat fish on Friday - a tradition that was only recently abandoned.

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/fishsymbol.html

We shouldn't confuss Aries The Lamb /Ram /Christ with a pagan whore called April /Themis /Aphrodite or her symbols. Nor should we confuse Sun/Mithra with Sunday! OOps gotcha! Happy Sabbath Day People!
 
Free said:
Hey, I have a great idea! Let's all believe everything we read on the Internet, especially from the Religious "Tolerance" site!

Come on guys, your reasoning is very fallacious. The fish became a symboly of Christianity because the Greek name for "fish," ichthus, forms the acrostic (in Greek letters of course): Jesus Christ God's Son Saviour. Not to mention the miraculous stories involving fish.

You're pretty much both right. Prior to the advent of Christianity, the fish was a pagan symbol representing, among other things, fertility and womanhood and a whole host of other things. This is largely why it was co-opted by Christians while they were being persecuted. It's pretty safe to start using a symbol that everyone assumes is representative of ancient pagan beliefs.

I suppose it could all just be a wacky coincidence, but it's a given that the use of the fish symbol and the word "ichthys" predate Christianity. I don't much see why it matters. The fact that someone, somewhere, at some point, used a particular symbol for something you find distasteful means precisely squat. Unless you wish to also refuse to celebrate Christmas because we stole the timing from the pagan winter solstice festival. The history of Christianity is rife with Christians taking things from other sources and making them their own. You can either make peace with the notion, or look silly every time you get into a debate over the matter with someone who's done their homework.
 
You're pretty much both right. Prior to the advent of Christianity, the fish was a pagan symbol representing, among other things, fertility and womanhood and a whole host of other things. This is largely why it was co-opted by Christians while they were being persecuted. It's pretty safe to start using a symbol that everyone assumes is representative of ancient pagan beliefs.

I only brought up the pagan fish origin (Babylonian) because someone dissed my Owl avatar......

By the way....

Ever see the Pope's hat? Turn it sideways and what do you get?

A Babylonian High Priest (Dagon) complete with pagan fish symbol!

Dagon_Priests_Hat.jpg
 
Ok Soma Sorry just tryin 2 Make a point, I like owls, I just dont like the use of it some times, nice picts too!
 
Ok Soma Sorry just tryin 2 Make a point, I like owls, I just dont like the use of it some times, nice picts too!

Its ok... we are all just trying to have a hoot of a time around here anyways.... :oops:
 
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