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Bible Study God at the first did visit the Gentiles

hhh - Adah bare JABAL: he was THE FATHER OF ALL SUCH AS DWELL IN TENTS, AND such as HAVE CATTLE.
Ge. 4:20

Eugene - Did Jesus sleep in tents or have Cattle? What’s your point?

hhh - And the LORD appeared unto ABRAM, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land; and there he builded an altar unto the LORD who appeared unto him.
And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and PITCHED HIS TENT, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the LORD.
Ge.12:7-8
AND ABRAM WAS VERY RICH IN CATTLE,...
Ge. 13:2

Eugene – Are you attempting to say Abraham is the direct descendent of Jabal? Doesn't context have to line up with scripture such as the genealogy we read of in Matthew and Luke?

hhh - Then Laban overtook Jacob. NOW JACOB HAD PITCHED HIS TENT IN THE MOUNT:...
Ge. 31:24
And it shall come to pass when Pharaoh shall call you, and shall say, What is you occupation?
That ye shall say, THY SERVANTS TRADE HATH BEEN ABOUT CATTLE FROM OUR YOUTH EVEN TILL NOW, BOTH WE AND OUR FATHERS: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians.
Ge. 46:33-34
What banners did the twelve tribes bear?

Eugene - Banners, or standards (Flags or ensigns).
Son 2:4 He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love.
Psa 60:4 Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth. Selah.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Does this conflict with Exo 20:4? Num 2:2 Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard, with the ensign of their father's house: far off about the tabernacle of the congregation shall they pitch.

Numbers Chapter Two lists the standards of each tribe.

Gen 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp . .
Genesis Chap 49 gives different names to the tribes
There are many links such as the following URL giving opinions as to what the flags bore as ensigns of the individual tribes.
http://banahtorah.blogspot.com/2006/07/12-tribes-of-israel-banners.html
 
Eugene said:
Dear brother, I have not kept notes deeper than the following, and I know there is prophesy in the Old Testament referring to Jesus' place with Israel. And you are not a bother. :)

Psa 135:4 For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own (Who were these if not Israel), and his own received him not.

Joh 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. (In what manner since without blood there is no remission?)
Click to expand...


His own would be a reference to those of the man [Abraham] whom He made a Covenant with, before He became flesh.

The natural descendants of Abraham.

Hi own peculiar people.

Because He came to His own nation, whom He raised up, does not necessarily mean He was a Jew.

He was born in the house of Joseph, but Joseph was not His father.

People considered Him a Jew, but that does not in and of itself make Jesus a Jew.

He was born under the law, as He was born into the house of Joseph. That would qualify Him as a native born.

Salvation is of the Jews, as they did crucify Jesus, or have him crucified. This does not necessarily make Jesus a Jew.

Jesus' blood was pure, as His bloodline can not be traced to a man, either Jew nor Gentile, as Melchizedek.

1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace," 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually. 4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. 5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; 6 but he whose genealogy is not derived from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. Hebrews 7:1-5


Jesus is called the son of David, and will sit on the throne of David, as He was born in the house of Joseph, of the lineage of David.

1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us." Matthew 1:1,18-23


48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. 49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you." Exodus 12:48-49


JLB
 
JLB said:
His own would be a reference to those of the man [Abraham] whom He made a Covenant with, before He became flesh.

The natural descendants of Abraham.

Hi own peculiar people.

Because He came to His own nation, whom He raised up, does not necessarily mean He was a Jew.

He was born in the house of Joseph, but Joseph was not His father.

People considered Him a Jew, but that does not in and of itself make Jesus a Jew.

He was born under the law, as He was born into the house of Joseph. That would qualify Him as a native born.

Salvation is of the Jews, as they did crucify Jesus, or have him crucified. This does not necessarily make Jesus a Jew.

Jesus' blood was pure, as His bloodline can not be traced to a man, either Jew nor Gentile, as Melchizedek.

1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace," 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually. 4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. 5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; 6 but he whose genealogy is not derived from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. Hebrews 7:1-5

Jesus is called the son of David, and will sit on the throne of David, as He was born in the house of Joseph, of the lineage of David.

1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us." Matthew 1:1,18-23

48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. 49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you." Exodus 12:48-49

JLB
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Dear Brother JLB, I certainly can’t deny what you have brought forth, but is there more? We read in Mat 26:24 The Son of man . . In Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, (G76) which was the son of God. The word Adam here is not the word meaning mankind in general, but Adam himself. Did law dictate such language because Jesus surely is linked to David through Mary and Nathan?

I am reminded of Num 36:2 And they said, The LORD commanded my lord to give the land for an inheritance by lot to the children of Israel: and my lord was commanded by the LORD to give the inheritance of Zelophehad our brother unto his daughters. Coming through Mary did not diminish Jesus being born of mankind as it were. Regardless of the law to be fulfilled, Jesus was not born of Joseph.

You brought forth the fact that Melchizedek was without genealogy after the manner of Jesus I think it was, and according to law that would pertain to Jesus’ birth and ministry. In actuality Jesus did not have beginning of days noted, and as our high priest unlike the Aaronic priesthood with qualifications, He didn’t need them. If I’m not making myself clear jump right in the middle of me, and thanks. :)
 
Hi Eugene, Can we please go a little bit slower?

In the geneaolgies, there are 8 people on the ark; where are the wives named? Who is the last human born in Cain's lineage, before the flood?

Wouldn't a sister of Tubal-cain be handy to have around? on a boat full of spiritual men? She could understand making fire; wasn't there a time in history, when women were the fire keepers? and the keepers of mysteries?

A woman who learned about cattle, tent making, musical instruments, fire, iron, and brass from helping her brothers, Jabal, Jubal, and Tubal-cain could be pretty handy on the ark, couldn't she?

Regardless of whether you accept Na'amah as being on the ark, the Bible calls Jabal, and Jubal the fathers of the people who do things Abraham, Israel, and David are famous for.

Where do the four women on the ark come from?

How has your understanding of the geneaologies excluded the daughters of Cain, and/or his gand-daughters from being married to Noah, and/or his sons?
 
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hhh said:
Hi Eugene, Can we please go a little bit slower?

In the geneaolgies, there are 8 people on the ark; where are the wives named? Who is the last human born in Cain's lineage, before the flood?

Wouldn't a sister of Tubal-cain be handy to have around? on a boat full of spiritual men? She could understand making fire; wasn't there a time in history, when women were the fire keepers? and the keepers of mysteries?

A woman who learned about cattle, tent making, musical instruments, fire, iron, and brass from helping her brothers, Jabal, Jubal, and Tubal-cain could be pretty handy on the ark, couldn't she?

Regardless of whether you accept Na'amah as being on the ark, the Bible calls Jabal, and Jubal the fathers of the people who do things Abraham, Israel, and David are famous for.

Where do the four women on the ark come from?

How has your understanding of the geneaologies excluded the daughters of Cain, and/or his gand-daughters from being married to Noah, and/or his sons?
Click to expand...
hhh - How has your understanding of the genealogies excluded the daughters of Cain, and/or his grand-daughters from being married to Noah, and/or his sons?

Eugene – I would ask why you have studied these things. To me I have to go no further than the genealogies presented in Matthew and Luke. The names of Noah’s wife and daughter-in-laws are not told, but if you’ll believe non-biblical writings there are different names suggested at this following link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wives_aboard_Noah's_Ark

Gen 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

hhh - A woman who learned about cattle, tent making, musical instruments, fire, iron, and brass from helping her brothers, Jabal, Jubal, and Tubal-cain could be pretty handy on the ark, couldn't she?

Eugene – What gift available is not one that God can grant? God is not limited nor subject to our thinking. In Exo 35:30-35 Bezaleel was filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship.

A thought comes to me concerning Cain and Abel. Cain was a farmer, and Abel the keeper of cattle. Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. Maybe the rebuke from God made him have cattle from that time on. :)
 
Hi Eugene, You ask, Why have I studied these things?

Because, I noticed that Acts 15:14 says,

Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles to take out of them a people for his name.

So, I read the next verse that says, And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Acts 15:15; so, I began to search the prophets to cofirm what The Bible tells me I should find in agreement with...

God at the first did visit the Gentiles; when did God visit the Gentiles?
At the first.

Why did God visit the Gentiles at the first?
To take out of them a people for his name.
Acts 15:14

Personally, I don't see how Jabal and Jubal could be the fathers of all who dwell in tents, and keep cattle, and play the harp, which the prophets make clear were, Abraham, Israel, and David, without believing that Jabal and Jubal, are related to David, via daughters of Jabal, and Jubal.

Why this study?

What do the names Jabal, Jubal, and Japheth all have in common?
 
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Dear hhh, please note that the word “Father” used here can be figurative such as the originator of an art; not necessarily the progenitor of all that use the harp for instance. Surely you realize that there is no blood line in everyone that ever had a cow or sheep. And then we are speaking of things spiritual when we talk of a people for God’s name. In that case both Adam and Eve were made coverings becoming the first saved, next Abel, and then Seth.

Gen 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
Strong’s Jabal = "stream of water"
The son of Lamech by Adah and brother of Jubal; described as the father of such as dwell in tents and have cattle.

Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Strong’s Jubal = "stream"
The son of Lamech by Adah and the inventor (Father?) of musical instruments

Strong’s Japheth = "opened"
The 3rd son of Noah whose descendants after the flood settled on the coastal lands of the Mediterranean spreading north into Europe and parts of Asia.
Gen 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents.

Dear hhh, I have no idea where you’re taking this, and unless you have direct scripture stating something I’ll wait to see where you take this. You never revealed the names of Noah’s wife and daughter-in-laws, so I’m coming to the conclusion I’m spinning my wheels. Sorry.
 
Sorry Eugene, I can't tell you the specific name of Noah's wife, or daughter-in law; just scriptures to support my view: but, you knew that. I don't see you offering any ideas on who they could be, just nay saying mine.
Please, don't be offended; but I don't consider the Strongs to be a good source for a dictionary.

Look up, unicorn, behemoth, and leviathan. If you really think the leviathan is a crocodile... we can drop this now too.
I'm sorry Eugene, this has gotten more into a debate on opinion than I ever intended.
I repent.
He must increase, but I must decrease.
Jn. 3:30
 
hhh said:
Sorry Eugene, I can't tell you the specific name of Noah's wife, or daughter-in law; just scriptures to support my view: but, you knew that. I don't see you offering any ideas on who they could be, just nay saying mine.
Please, don't be offended; but I don't consider the Strongs to be a good source for a dictionary.

Look up, unicorn, behemoth, and leviathan. If you really think the leviathan is a crocodile... we can drop this now too.
I'm sorry Eugene, this has gotten more into a debate on opinion than I ever intended.
I repent.
He must increase, but I must decrease.
Jn. 3:30
Click to expand...
Thanks hhh. I'm sorry, but I reckon I'm just not open to supposition or theories not directly supported by scripture. Red flags go up making me think of such phrases as 2 + 2 = 5.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_+_2_=_5

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
 
Eugene said:
Thanks hhh. I'm sorry, but I reckon I'm just not open to supposition or theories not directly supported by scripture. Red flags go up making me think of such phrases as 2 + 2 = 5.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_+_2_=_5

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...
Eugene said:
Thanks hhh. I'm sorry, but I reckon I'm just not open to supposition or theories not directly supported by scripture. Red flags go up making me think of such phrases as 2 + 2 = 5.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_+_2_=_5

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...

Hey Eugene, I was thinking that your claim of, "Not being open to supposition or theories not directly supported by scriptures," is diametrically opposed to what I have seen here, considering all the links, and refrences you have posted in this thread, which are not directly supported by scripture, including the one I am quoting now.
 
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Eugene, I had to edit my last post to fit. I used every letter; I don't want to end on that note.
Can we please in the future, use more scriptures, and less that cannot be directly supported by scripture?
The LORD bless thee, and keep thee.
 
Gets tough doesn't it.

I am often put off because I think outside accepted boxes.

Matthew 12:6
My words ( something / someone greater than the temple is here).

The Gentiles (being without the law) do the very things the law says, showing that the law is written in their hearts.o

This all calls for something beyond the concrete. Genetics IMHO is concrete. All the double helix structure can be examined in the physical. Genetics exists. Beyond (and in my opinion greater than) genetics are abstract things that define our spiritual existance and development. Hope, faith, love, belief, and a host of other terms. These are cross linked just like genetics. When a gentile is called, he has no physical geonology on which to rely. Grafted into father Abraham by faith is his only hope. Salvation comes by faith in Christ.

The study of faith, love, belief is just as complicated as genetics. Genes define our physical man. What defines our eternal man?

A visited gentile is desperate. He is without Gd and undone.


eddif
 
eddif said:
Gets tough doesn't it.

I am often put off because I think outside accepted boxes.

Matthew 12:6
My words ( something / someone greater than the temple is here).

The Gentiles (being without the law) do the very things the law says, showing that the law is written in their hearts.o

This all calls for something beyond the concrete. Genetics IMHO is concrete. All the double helix structure can be examined in the physical. Genetics exists. Beyond (and in my opinion greater than) genetics are abstract things that define our spiritual existance and development. Hope, faith, love, belief, and a host of other terms. These are cross linked just like genetics. When a gentile is called, he has no physical geonology on which to rely. Grafted into father Abraham by faith is his only hope. Salvation comes by faith in Christ.

The study of faith, love, belief is just as complicated as genetics. Genes define our physical man. What defines our eternal man?

A visited gentile is desperate. He is without Gd and undone.


eddif
Click to expand...

:agreed
 
This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.
But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob; but thou hast been weary of me O Israel.
Is 43:20-21
 
hhh said:
This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.
But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob; but thou hast been weary of me O Israel.
Is 43:20-21
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IMHO Ezekiel 6:7-8 defines a reminant that will ultimately bear witness while they ate scattered. This reminant will operate with a humbled heart. Most of Israel will be destroyed after 390 years of sin, and Judah will suffer for 40 years of sin.

This reminant will tell of the mighty works of God. Do I totally understand all this ? No. Does Ezekiel describe this? Yes .

Sometimes facing Ezekiel is tough.

The Gentiles are warned about their not being arrogant about being grafted in, and are told that Israel is a natural branch that can be brought back.

Jew and Gentile make up the one new man . IMHO

eddif
 
hhh. You are asking for answers that are hidden.
Not hidden in a wrong ungodly way, but still hidden (the way parables hide seeing and hearing).

When I start speaking, some think I am not using scripture. Things hidden / mystery from the foundation of the earth; is scriptural. I Corinthians 1:4

Hebrews 11:10 Abraham was looking for a city made by God, and not one made with mans hands. At a future time we learn more about this Bethel he was seeking.

IMHO I live in a tent. I am covered with hide (my skin), I have staves to give me shape (my bones), I am mobile and led by cloudy thinking by day and fiery dreams by night.

By knowing about flocks:
All have gone astray. We are dumb enough to need a shepherd. Etc.

Mississippi folks are just different. LOL

eddif
 
hhh said:
Who raised up the righteous man from the east...?
Isaiah 41:2
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Short answer :
Ezekiel 2:1-2
Ruac
Though we might just back up to Isaiah 40: 27-28 and deal a with the Us who made man in Our image.

Can get very long if you look at Abraham who walked (in belief) the land looking for a city. Hebrews 11: 8-11

eddif
 
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