Bible Study God at the first did visit the Gentiles

[hhh]

theres not word for female Hebrew in English and well chana weisenberg is an ashkenazic name. she does write. women cant address issues to women. look her up and see that she writes a lot. theres two jewess I now know. the other is mayim balik who does similar things. the later teaches and preaches sexual purity. I have read her article on that years ago...

God morning Jason, What would your Christian mother say about your spiritual/racial identity?
Mainly, I notice you are not only qualifying identities as being Hebrew, but also, qualifying Hebrews as being Ashkenazi, or not.
While I am finding places where Gentiles can be at least as blessed, as Jews... it seems to me you are very conscious of genetics making all of the difference.
I can be wrong in my observations; will you please clarify the differences you appear to see between, Hebrews, Jews, Israelites, Gentiles, and Ashkenazis?

 

[hhh]

I agree

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumsized; that righteousness might be imparted unto them also:

Other surrounding text makes it clearer that Abraham is the father of Jew and Gentile alike.

eddif

Good points Eddif.
Thank you for your contributions.

 

[Deborah13]

I agree

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumsized; that righteousness might be imparted unto them also:

Other surrounding text makes it clearer that Abraham is the father of Jew and Gentile alike.

eddif

Yes, he is the father of us all, all those in Christ, Jew and Greek.

All those who are in the one Seed of Abraham, that the covenant was made with.

 

[hhh]

Yes, he is the father of us all, all those in Christ, Jew and Greek.

All those who are in the one Seed of Abraham, that the covenant was made with.

Thank you Deborah, for your word of unity.

Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1 Co. 10:32

 

[hhh]

I believe in the idea of proselytes as per the Talmud; lest Jesus would not be a Jew.

Hi Eugene, Inspite of the fact that I have been pointing out Gentlies in Jesus' geneaology, it never crossed my mind that Jesus wasn't a Jew; just that most people don't have a clue what a Jew really is.

For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Ro. 2:28-29

I would appreciate it if you would take the time to explain how a Talmudic understanding is necessary for you to see Jesus as a Jew.

Maybe I don't understand what you're saying?

It almost seems like an accusation to say that; but, it looks like that's the way you meant it.

If you would explain what you mean, I will be very thankful.

 

[hhh]

theres not word for female Hebrew in English and well chana weisenberg is an ashkenazic name. she does write. women cant address issues to women. look her up and see that she writes a lot. theres two jewess I now know. the other is mayim balik who does similar things. the later teaches and preaches sexual purity. I have read her article on that years ago.
then in the days of moses it was the tribe that was mentioned. daughter of so and so or of the tribe. implied to be all Hebrew.

theres not word for female Hebrew in English...

Hebrewess:
Je. 34:9

 

[agua.]

Good morning @ague, and good question. Without finding all scripture pointing that lineage went through the man, and the example is in Matthew Chapter One as it's traced back to David through Solomon on down to Joseph, but Jesus was not born of Joseph but of God through Nathan to Mary, I hope I'm making this clearer than it sounds. My explanation appears to be taking on the genesis of the song "I'm my own grandpa."

1Ch 3:1 Now these were the sons of David . .
1Ch 3:5 And these were born unto him in Jerusalem; Shimea, and Shobab, and Nathan, and Solomon . .

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

"I'm my own grandpa." "D

Ok Eugene thanks mate. I thought the line through Solomon down to Joseph was to grant Jesus' right to the throne of David ( Judah's scepter ) which legally came through the father to make Jesus King of the Jews.

 

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene, Inspite of the fact that I have been pointing out Gentlies in Jesus' geneaology, it never crossed my mind that Jesus wasn't a Jew; just that most people don't have a clue what a Jew really is.

For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Ro. 2:28-29

I would appreciate it if you would take the time to explain how a Talmudic understanding is necessary for you to see Jesus as a Jew.

Maybe I don't understand what you're saying?

It almost seems like an accusation to say that; but, it looks like that's the way you meant it.

If you would explain what you mean, I will be very thankful.

Hi hhh, I do think I understand your thought which is fairly common, but in these early chapters of Romans Paul is bringing forth the fact that the immoral, the moral, and the religious are not just before God and ends with Rom 3:23, All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Now in Rom 2:28-29 when he says, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Paul in effect is saying those claiming to be Jews are guilty before God just as all else without Christ are. This in no way says we becomes Jews or that they are Jews unless that circumcision of the heart takes place; they need a spiritual birth.

Next there is neither Jew or Gentile in Christ for we are become one with Him as the very body of Christ. Again, Israel has been set aside to take out of the Gentiles a people, but they will not remain so. Now if this is not your understanding I might be wrong according to you. I perceive you attempting to reach back to Abraham as that time talked of as being first visiting the Gentiles. In your opinion were there Jews at that time before Jacob? Thanks.

 

[Eugene]

"I'm my own grandpa." "D

Ok Eugene thanks mate. I thought the line through Solomon down to Joseph was to grant Jesus' right to the throne of David ( Judah's scepter ) which legally came through the father to make Jesus King of the Jews.

You're not wrong in that. Again the right of lineage in Israel's eyes belonged to the man which was Joseph, thus the genealogy shown in Matthew Chapter One. At least that's my understanding.

 

[hhh]

Hi Eugene, I don't believe Abraham was God's first visiting of the Gentiles.

And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
And I behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Ge. 9:8-9

And the sons of Noah that went forth of the ark, were Shem, Ham, and Japheth:...
Ge. 9:18

The sons of Japheth...
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; everyone after his own tounge.
10:2-5

...Japheth the elder...
Ge.10:21

If you'll explain how the Talmud convinces you Jesus wouldn't be a Jew, without what the Talmud says, I'll show you an earlier one.

 

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene, I don't believe Abraham was God's first visiting of the Gentiles.

And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
And I behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Ge. 9:8-9

And the sons of Noah that went forth of the ark, were Shem, Ham, and Japheth:...
Ge. 9:18

The sons of Japheth...
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; everyone after his own tounge.
10:2-5

...Japheth the elder...
Ge.10:21

If you'll explain how the Talmud convinces you Jesus wouldn't be a Jew, without what the Talmud says, I'll show you an earlier one.

I do not know that I believe anything the Talmud says as I have only read some items of tradition. I would have to research that again to find why I found the possibility of credence there as to how certain proselytes were considered Jews.

With that said I now have no idea the direction you're taking on this with Japheth that became a foreign nation (Gentiles); was he in your opinion the people for God's name's sake? In that sense maybe Cain would have been the first of the foreign nations. How are any taken out for His name's sake other than in Christ? I'll wait now for your end game on this attempting to discover your purpose. I've seen before how you ask questions while already knowing the answer you desire.

 

[hhh]

I do not know that I believe anything the Talmud says as I have only read some items of tradition. I would have to research that again to find why I found the possibility of credence there as to how certain proselytes were considered Jews.

With that said I now have no idea the direction you're taking on this with Japheth that became a foreign nation (Gentiles); was he in your opinion the people for God's name's sake? In that sense maybe Cain would have been the first of the foreign nations. How are any taken out for His name's sake other than in Christ? I'll wait now for your end game on this attempting to discover your purpose. I've seen before how you ask questions while already knowing the answer you desire.

Hi Eugene, Thank you for clearing that up. As a matter of fact, Cain is related to Abraham, all of Israel, and David.
If I can prove this, would you consider the possibilty, that the star of David, is the mark of Cain?

 

[hhh]

God morning Eugene, I have already told you, when I ask a question, I never think I know every possible answer. I might have an idea of what your answer will be; but, I never think I know everything, everybody else knows. No matter what question I ask, I always leave room to learn from my question. For example, I did a 180 degree turn based on your use of Nathan. I said, I never considered the scripture you posted, and presented a scripture that agreed with you. How you can think that I know the answers to all of my questions, given the fact that I have shown you that I am willing to abandon my position, based on scriptures you have presented, is beyond my comprehension.

 

[hhh]

bible? you say?

weren't those the nations that he judged and said in judges after Joshua that he wouldn't remove because of isreal' sin? yup the Moabites were there. jebusites? david took that city and made it Jerusalem. amorites? they were around look after david and well cannanite is all encompassing. that would make obed a sinner and jesse as well.

What's your point?

 

[hhh]

I believe in the idea of proselytes as per the Talmud; lest Jesus would not be a Jew.

I don't mean to bother you Eugene; but, you offered yourself as somebody who had studied this subject, and asked what I wanted to know about it.

When I read what you just posted, I have reason to believe that you have taken this study to a place I never considered.

Please bear with me as I re-phrase my question...

Do you not find evidence that Jesus was a Jew, in The Bible?

 

[Eugene]

Good morning hhh, just as with the Talmud, I put no stock in supposition as a means to establish doctrine. Show me the where scripture mentions the Star of David referencing Cain, or Japheth, and at that moment I’ll look further into this. What banners did the twelve tribes bear as they marched; were they not according to the Breastplate of Judgment? Without an established evil meaning to their symbol of Judaism by them I see no profit in seeking to find a hidden connation.

Israel becomes a people
Now let me attempt to ask who you think Israel became a people, and when it is put aside? Deuteronomy 27:9 And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the LORD thy God. This day Israel became God's peculiar people - Duet 26:18.

Does this fit the thought of taking a people out of the Gentiles (Nations) when God delivered Israel from Egypt? Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. This is an ongoing process at this very time.

Blindness to Israel
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel (Not all, some have become the body of Christ), until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Is this not the Israel that is not a Jew we read of in Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

 

[Eugene]

Do you not find evidence that Jesus was a Jew, in The Bible?

Dear brother, I have not kept notes deeper than the following, and I know there is prophesy in the Old Testament referring to Jesus' place with Israel. And you are not a bother.

Psa 135:4 For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own (Who were these if not Israel), and his own received him not.

Joh 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. (In what manner since without blood there is no remission?)

 

[hhh]

Dear brother, I have not kept notes deeper than the following, and I know there is prophesy in the Old Testament referring to Jesus' place with Israel. And you are not a bother.

Psa 135:4 For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own (Who were these if not Israel), and his own received him not.

Joh 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. (In what manner since without blood there is no remission?)

Thank you Eugene. I misunderstood what you were saying; those are good scriptures. I agree with your use of them. Even if I disagree with your additions to the text. Thank you

 

[hhh]

God evening Eugene...

Adah bare JABAL: he was THE FATHER OF ALL SUCH AS DWELL IN TENTS, AND such as HAVE CATTLE.
Ge. 4:20

And the LORD appeared unto ABRAM, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land; and there he builded an altar unto the LORD who appeared unto him.
And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and PITCHED HIS TENT, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the LORD.
Ge.12:7-8

AND ABRAM WAS VERY RICH IN CATTLE,...
Ge. 13:2

Then Laban overtook Jacob. NOW JACOB HAD PITCHED HIS TENT IN THE MOUNT:...
Ge. 31:24

And it shall come to pass when Pharaoh shall call you, and shall say, What is you occupation?
That ye shall say, THY SERVANTS TRADE HATH BEEN ABOUT CATTLE FROM OUR YOUTH EVEN TILL NOW, BOTH WE AND OUR FATHERS: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians.
Ge. 46:33-34

 

[hhh]

And his brother's name was JUBAL: HE WAS THE FATHER OF ALL SUCH AS HANDLE THE HARP AND ORGAN.
Ge. 4:21

...DAVID TOOK AN HARP, AND PLAYED WITH HIS HAND:...
Ge. 16:23

AND DAVID took the head of the Philistine, and brought it to Jerusalem; but HE PUT HIS ARMOUR IN HIS TENT.
1 Sa. 17:54

I am the LORD thy GOD, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no gods before me.
Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, ...
Dt. 5:6-8

Good question Eugene, What banners did the twelve tribes bear?

Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered unto me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
Yea, YE TOOK UP the tabernacle of Molech, and THE STAR OF YOUR GOD REMPHAN, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Acts 7:42-43