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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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God does not love all people
- Thread starter josefnospam
- Start date
Eventide
Member
There's not a shred of doubt in my mind that He did and does, they are His creatures.
Pizzaguy
Member
No, it is not truth. You preach a different Gospel.
A false and self-serving gospel.
G
Guest
Guest
[MENTION=94634]josefnospam[/MENTION] But you didn't answer my question, I don't think. Hatred is an emotion you feel inside of you. There has to be a reason behind the hatred. For example, I hate eggplant because it makes me sick. The reason I feel hatred towards it is because it makes me sick. So God hated Esau before he was even born because???? why?? Does God hate for no reason, no! There has to be a purpose behind it.
The purpose behind God's hatred towards Esau is so that God can prove that he's an asshole?
The purpose behind God's hatred towards Esau is so that God can prove that he's an asshole?
Sinthesis
Member
You should notice that 'hated' is past-tense, so not eternal. The same is true of God's 'love' for Jacob in this context. So what is really being described is the blessing or lack of blessing on the people groups identified with Jacob(Israel) or Esau(Edom) as evidenced by their relative prosperity by the time Malachi was written. This is not personal hatred directed at individual souls.
The reason it plainly says hated is because there is no Hebrew word for loved less.
http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/lovehate.htm
This is especially pertinent in the case of God loving Jacob but hating Esau; as other commentators have noted, God does not hate Esau in the Genesis story, but chooses Jacob over Esau, not for Jacob's own salvation over Esau, but to be the vessel of salvation history leading to the Messiah. Thus Esau is promised to have blessing in Jacob's blessing.
The author of this article demonstrates how the comparative phrase is sometimes used in the OT and NT to mean comparative degrees or kinds of love, since Hebrew and Aramaic (underlying the written Greek) didn't have ways to clearly express this preference in direct grammar. So idioms were used instead, such as this one.
JLB
:amen
josefnospam
Member
Right...................There is no way you say can "Esau I loved less" because it is so VERY PLAINY stated in scripture by the word of God "ESAU I hated."
Can't be changed ,wished away, covered up or glossed over, by comparative phrases. ESAU I HATED.................
And Romans 9 verse11 tells us why. For the children not being yet born, neither having done any good or evil,, that the PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, NOT OF WORKS BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH. The purpose was to show election might stand. This is what the scriptures say, not me. And 2 Peter 2:10 says .........."Breathern, Give deligence to make your Calling and Election sure. for if you do these things ye shall never fail" What great and comforting words, if you make your CALLING and ELECTION sure you will NEVER fail. We are the remnant according to the election of grace......Romans 11:5 Israel has not obtained it, But the election hath obtained it and the rest were blinded...Romans 11:7 As touching the election, THEY are beloved for the fathers sake................Romans 11:28. Thats why Paul can say in 1st Thess.1:4 Knowing, breathen beloved, your election of God. And because we are elected and beloved by God, good works do accompany Salvation,(EPH. 2:10) and not a form of godliness, denying the power of God. Rather we endorse and confirm his amazing plan of salvation for his people, by Giving ALL the honor, praise and Glory due his name.
josefnospam
Member
Not my choice but his. I am so thankfull he included me in his plan of Salvation. This way I can give him all the praise, honor and glory due his name, and I am accepted by God the father thru and in his Son our Lord and Saviour. He, Christ, is my only rightousness and hope in this sin cursed world.
common sense goes a long way with this also.
God the ultimate authority in the universe, tells ALL of us to LOVE EVERYBODY, deal righteously with EVERYBODY, Be JUST with everybody.
We even have a saying on this planet that most people know,"Do as I say, not as I act." Most all normal persons know what the underlying meaning of this statement means.
Your definition of "Hate" comes from your theology, not from the word of God. You NEED to see that as God hating the person of Esau to make your theology work. It needs to be salvation in your interpretation to fit your theology.
God says and acts exactly the same.
With your definition of hate, one verse in particular stands out. "love or hate your neighbor as yourself."
We are to be "conformed to His image" If He hates one of His creatures, then we must hate some of His creatures also? Love your neighbor as yourself?
For us Josefno, we have a CALLING first, then an election. The calling is for us to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation. We are elected if we believe that calling from God. God does not force someone or change someones volition to believe.
God did not hate Esau, with your definition of hate. The wonder of it is how did God Love Jacob!
God has impersonal unconditional love for ALL of His creatures. Its called virtue Love, He loves us because of who He is, not because of who the creature is.
Paul uses the debaters technique in the very next verse to address the very way you are interpreting this verse.
{Paul's Debater's Technique - Is Loving One and Hating the Other . . . Fair?}
14~~To what conclusion are we forced?
{idiom: literally: 'what shall we say?'}
There is not injustice with God, is there?
{idiom: literally 'not injustice with God?'
Emphatically no!
{idiom: literally 'let it not become so'}.
If God actually "hated" Esau the way you are defining "Hate" He would be Unjust/unfair.
Ps 9:8~~And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.
Rom 1:16-17~~16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it(salvation) [the] righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS [man] SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
His righteousness would not be revealed If He did not judge Esau with equity.
And it has been noted, this verse that you are using is talking about Gods election of Israel and the Messiah coming through them. Jacob(Israel). Not personal salvation.
josefnospam
Member
The scriptures uses the word. I didn't write it.........................And it its not MY theology but God's word. "that the PURPOSE of God according to election might stand' ..............I didn't say this . And Romans 16:17 says..........'.mark them which cause division and avoid them" And we shold take note of people who do not confess Christ as there saviour and attempt to worship and be with those we believe belong to him. We are to LOVE the breathen and tell the whole world and the heathens they need a Saviour. That is how we love ALL people. Tell them about our saviour and God and there need of the same Saviour. When the breathern assemble and worship God with one accord, this is Love. "Behold how good and how pleasent it is for breathern to dwell together in unity" ...Plsm 133:1 Let us dwell together in unity.....................
May God bless you as only he can do. But please don't attack or try to get me to abandon that great and comforting God glorifing doctrine of God's magnificant salvation plan through his choosen, elected, called and justified blood bought children. "Who has saved us and called us with a HOLY calling..........".2 Tim. 1:9 And, " Breathen, give diligence to make your calling(HOLY CALLING) and election sure for if you do these things you shall never fail." 2 Peter 1:10.
Just a thought--those are God's words, but we need to keep in mind the historical context. He was speaking to the people from back then, from a different language and a different culture; their word usage can differ from our's. Often, in language, extremes were used to get a point across--the word "hate" could be used and not mean literal hate.
Hopefully I did this explanation justice even with my poor way of wording things.
Hopefully I did this explanation justice even with my poor way of wording things.
Josefno have you ever studied what Gods PURPOSE in election is?
what do you consider the PURPOSE to be?
"Hate" in the bible is called an 'Anthropopathism'. That means to use human terms to attempt to describe characteristics of God . . . though God does not have the emotions like human 'love and hate'. Esau was no better or worse than his twin brother Jacob (name means 'chiseler'). But Jacob was a believer and 'it was imputed to his account for righteousness' as it was with Abraham - and every believer ever. So, God loves His own righteousness that He imputed in the believer. As a believer, Jacob was IN the plan of God - an elected one.}
So Josefno, what is Gods PURPOSE? What is your definition of Gods PURPOSE?