God does not love all people

[Deborah13]

Some men were ordained to condemnation? Did God love these men?...............For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ORDAINED to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the GRACE of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ..................Jude:4

Mark 3:14
And he ordained (poieo) twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained (prographo) to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I have added the Greek words actually used in writing the scriptures. In the English, we have them translated as the same word. Sometimes our English language can't always show the differences.
I think in Jude, what is being said, is that in the OT that these kinds of people had been written about and others had been warned about in these old writings.



poieo = Strong's G4160 =

1. to make
   1. with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
   2. to be the authors of, the cause
   3. to make ready, to prepare
   4. to produce, bear, shoot forth
   5. to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
   6. to make a thing out of something
   7. to (make i.e.) render one anything
      1. to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
      2. to (make i.e.) declare one anything
   8. to put one forth, to lead him out
   9. to make one do something
      1. cause one to
   10. to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
2. to do
   1. to act rightly, do well
      1. to carry out, to execute
   2. to do a thing unto one
      1. to do to one
   3. with designation of time: to pass, spend
   4. to celebrate, keep
      1. to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover
   5. to perform: to a promise

Prographo = Strong's G4270 =

1. to write before (of time)
   1. of old set forth or designated before hand (in the scriptures of the OT)
2. to depict or portray openly
3. to write before the eyes of all who can read
4. to depict, portray, paint, before the eyes

http://v3.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G4160&t=KJV

 

[Eventide]

How about the rest of your family... are they all chosen as well ?

Hopefully they're chosen also or they're going to burn for eternity as they were ordained... right ?

 

[Randy]

At this point it is irrelevant.

The Myth Buster has stepped in and officially declared the Gospel of Election as a Certified Myth.

It's over now, my work is done.

Moving along.

Agreed, God never made a spirit, planned for a spirit, or ordained a spirit to be put into a person for failure. Man has always made the choice despite what God had planned. We can choose the plan and perfect path of God which is fully laid out or we can walk in the path of darkness out of the will of God.

Choose who you will serve this day, for it's recorded in heaven. Choose to be blessed or choose to be cursed. Choose to have life or choose death. It is recorded by what we say (Matt 12) and what we take action to. Speaking and/or Actions denotes our choice.

If God knew ahead of time what that choice might be, there would bare no recored or hand written ordinance for or against us. If God elected our choices then we would not have been told to choose. It's really simple to understand. No scripture will ever contradict another no matter what religious doctrine your stuck in.

Jesus knew before then (last supper) that one of them was a devil. Judas helped himself to the money bag and was noted as a thief. Its clear to me he loved money more then God. God's purpose was ordained (Jesus on the cross) but Judas made his own choices.

Sad, Judas did not take the hint at that comment of Jesus and change his money bag grubbing ways. The Lord knew he was stealing and just allowed him to think he had not been caught. Very interesting on how we would have responded.

Mike.

I think God knows the hearts and minds of the people. God knew the track record of the leadership of Israel and rightly called their unbelief in His message via the Son (Jesus) Despite the many signs given. (not the same as ordained to unbelief) We note their reaction when Lazarus was called forth from the grave. But I would state history shows in any religion when church and state are fused hypocrisy reigns. There is a theme in scripture that God resists those who are proud in their innermost thoughts but gives grace to the humble. Jesus's birth, in the City of David, was revealed to the humble shepherds in the field (Jews). Their reaction "Lets go so what the Lord has revealed to us" I guess they weren't worried about losing their positions of leadership.

 

[Pizzaguy]

If a chosen one never hears of Jesus - is that one lost or does he make it anyway?

Jesus Christ always brings someone with his word to his lost sheep at the appointed time....".How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed.? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach except they be sent. As it is written HOW BEAUTIFUL are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things:......Romans 10:14 and 15 And they are odained(his people) for that purpose. "As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.."........Acts 13:48

Some men were ordained to condemnation? Did God love these men?...............For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ORDAINED to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the GRACE of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ..................Jude:4

Basicly, all of God's choosen, bloodbought children will hear the gospel at the time appointed by god and will be given his spirit.....You must be Born again. Not one will fail to come to God when he calls ,because they were choosen in him before the world was formed , justifed and redeemed by him to such a wonderfull paln of salvation and how beautiful it is to be included in ANY part of his powerfull , perfect Salvation plan. We worship an amazing, powerfull and Soverign God. To him be ALL the glory, honor, and praise now and forever. HE will not fail!

Oh, so there is no such thing as a chosen one who does not hear.

So of all the people who HAVE heard, many are chosen - but we can tell who was NOT chosen, cause they are the ones who never heard.
Odd how there are actual groups of people who never heard - these groups did not contain ONE chosen person? Must be God put a lot of the unchosen together in this life.

And funny how so many of the chosen just happened (in most of the last century) to have lived where they'd hear - in the USA and the largely Catholic countries.


But I like the question above - do families consist of "chosen ones" only? And what impact would it have on you if you realized, one day, that God chose you but, say only one of your two or three kids?
At least if I end up facing such a situation, I'll know it's my kid who rejected Him - but you must live with the 'fact' that God did NOT love your child.

Wow, not good to be you.

 

[Brother Mike]

I think God knows the hearts and minds of the people.

I think that is the thing that bugs me. I hear that God knows the end for the beginning, and God lives outside of time, to even God elected every single step you take. For me it was a big wake up call after studying scriptures because the thought is that no matter how goofy you are or things you do that somehow it all works for the good of God anyway. What if, God does not the heart? Scripture clearly says he does for God knows all things, and the subject was pertaining to the heart in John.

1Jn_3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
1Jn_3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

God to Moses..................... I am Sure!!!

Exo 3:19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.

This is not a comment about election, or full knowing, or knowing the end from the begging. This is a comment of someone that has divine insight into the Heart of Pharaoh. This changes the ballgame for me because I no longer have the sense it all works out for the good of God anyway.

Exo 4:9 And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe also these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour it upon the dry land: and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land.

If they shall not believe.................. IF....................

Reading this you get a picture that God is pretty much "Expecting" them not to believe or get in line. God already said he was sure it would take a pretty mighty thing to get Pharaoh to play ball.

There are not absolutes in God's statements, he is going by knowing the heart, and by that knowing he is making provisions.

If your faithful in little, more shall be given, or be faithful in another man's things. If your not faithful then God has no reason, knowing your heart to give you more.

Gen_18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

This is a very good statement about how God perceives things on the throne. He tells us how he operates and what He can do and know. This is far different than mans versions of God knowing the end for the beginning or God predestining things. He hears something spiritual like the cry of sin, so he has to go down to check it out to see if what he is hearing matches the deeds.

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

When did God Know Abraham would follow and have faith until the end? When Abraham was willing to give up his most valued possession. God says now I know, you have not withheld your only son from me. (Gen 22:16)

Now we get an understanding of why God gets grieved in heart for even making man, why God repents for making Saul King, Why God changes his mind about Eli's family, and how God deals with Pharaoh.

We also get more understanding into what Peter said. Peter said we heard the voice on high, saw all the Miracles, personal prophecy, but we have a more sure Word.

What is written is not conditional, what God tells us personally is conditional depending on how we respond. God declares the end from the begging even for our life, but ............... for the Word nothing can change it, for us personally nothing can change it but our lack of obedience and following the plan.

God tells you something and you say you will do it and don't do it.............................. That is a very bad thing because God only has your past obedience and faithfulness to go by. This is why we don't make a vow to the Lord and break it because doing so means we have nothing to come to him with to prove different later.

The thought I get from people is that God knows my heart and knows I will "eventually" get obedient and that is not the case according to scriptures. It's not going to be alright until God knows you will stay steady and on track. This may take longer than we like for the next promotion as God sees if we do what we say we will and stay on course before He moves things on our behalf.

A faithful person that always responds to God gets the same back from God. Whom will honor me, I will honor.............

He is able to do exceeding far above all we ask or think according to the power that works in us. Part of that power is our honor toward God, our love walk, our obedience. (Eph 3:20)

We need to stay on course and do all God said do, and now I know that my actions and response to God is how He is going to respond back to me. Just because your called does not mean you get chosen or make it. Just living a life waiting on heaven with no obedience to God is a defeated life, and no rewards later.

Mike.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

There is no unrighteousness with God, Who, through foreknowledge, sees the attitude of both these boys and judges accordingly. God has Mercy and Compassion on those who meet his Condition.

That's not what the test you quoted seems to indicate. And if you study Jacob, you won't find a man that was the picture of godliness. Jacob was a swindler basically from the womb. He was a father that stirred division amongst his kids and he was a man that often made his mind up to do his own thing in rebellion to God's will. Dude wrestled with God! His attitude was hardly a commendable one. Esua's greatest transgression appears to be that of selling his birth right to his underhanded little brother. Neither man is depicted as a model citizen according to the scriptures. One seemed to just by happenstance (pre-ordination perhaps) get the benefits of God's blessings and of history recording him as the winner.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

How about changing the title to:

God Does Not Love All People Equally

 

[josefnospam]

How about changing the title to: God Does Not Love All People Equally

Well we could..........But then comes those who say God Loves some people less than others. God loves some and hates others and men just don't like that. They want a God of Love who would NEVER hate or pass Judgement on people., without there concent or input. God IS the God of Love but he is also the God of Judgement and he created evil, and darkness.....I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things...............Isaiah 45:7 He has prepared his throne for Judgement Plsm. 9:7 and he shall Judge the world in Rightousness.

God is the god of ALL things Were can we go to hide or flee from him. "If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there"..........Plsm 139:9
We should fear and worship him in spirit and truth and in awe and amazment for he has the keys of life and death in his hands. What a GREAT God we worship. His Name is Jesus Christ the Lord
.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

They want a God of Love who would NEVER hate or pass Judgement on people., without there concent or input.

What most people want is a god like David (Acts 13:22). What I mean by that is they want God to be to them what David was to God, and that is a god after man's own heart who will do whatever man wants. To many, God is the personification of man's ideals and biases as it pertains to authority on what is right, moral, and good. Liberal thinking communities will have God being a god of love and tolerance whereas those on the opposite conservative fire and brimstone side will put forth God as being an iron fisted judge that will not stand for wickedness.

His Name is Jesus Christ the Lord

Actually His name is something different. See Psalm 68:4. Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

http://2001translation.com/Jehovah.htm
Has more info on the Divine name if you're interested.

 

[Pizzaguy]

They want a God of Love who would NEVER hate or pass Judgement on people., without there concent or input.

What most people want is a god like David (Acts 13:22). What I mean by that is they want God to be to them what David was to God, and that is a god after man's own heart who will do whatever man wants. To many, God is the personification of man's ideals and biases as it pertains to authority on what is right, moral, and good. Liberal thinking communities will have God being a god of love and tolerance whereas those on the opposite conservative fire and brimstone side will put forth God as being an iron fisted judge that will not stand for wickedness.

This is a very clear insight. And I like the twist on David; "A god after man's own heart..."
You said a LOT in very few words.

 

[josefnospam]

Actually His name is something differe

My God is Jesus Christ the Lord and saviour of his people. The Lord has many other names. But we know him as Jesus Christ. He that honoreth not the son honoreth not the father which has sent him.................John 5:23 and "this is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he sent.........John 6:29 He is called wonderfull, counsoler the bright and morning star,(REV. 22:18) and many other names. He is GOD allmighty and his people know him as Jesus Christ. If we deny him, he will also deny us. 2 Tim 2:12 Jehovah is one name. JAH another. Our God is the God of salvation. "He that is our God is the God of Salvation and unto GOD the LORD belong the issues from death.

Jesus Christ is God and we know him as Jesus Christ the Lord and Saviour. Why would anyone deny that most precious and Holy name the name above all names. Jesus Christ. Of course he is called the Lord, and many other names. I will not deny his name if he allows me to do so(reminded me of Peter who denied him). I and the father are one...........................By the way I looked at this 2001 translation thing and find it to be .....................well best is to say nothing about it as I do not talk badly of other tranlations. Only that they are just that....Other translations.

Use what you like. I endorse and use the KJV and others use many other translations and that's fine. When I want to check out a scripture I look to see what the kjv says............others may do so with whatever Translation they like. May God bless you as only he can do:p

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

My God is Jesus Christ the Lord and saviour of his people.

Christ is NOT a name. No really, it's not. And JAH (really YAH) is the shortened version of YHWH (aka the LORD). I know you use the KJV, so I quoted Psalm 68:4 from that very translation. Jesus, the Christ/Anointed One is your saviour and king. He is God's (YAH's) Anointed and He proved to be faithful so YAH (God) gave Jesus a name above all names (Philipians 2:8-9).

 

[JLB]

And JAH (really YAH) is the shortened version of YHWH (aka the LORD).

YHWH = yehowshuwa = Jesus

 

[Deborah13]

http://2001translation.com/Jehovah.htm
Has more info on the Divine name if you're interested.

Hey. Are you aware that this link has a links to a Jehovah's Witness sites? This is a JW production?

I got curious because of the major deal they were making about the name Jehovah. So I went to the home page.

 

[Randy]

I think that is the thing that bugs me. I hear that God knows the end for the beginning, and God lives outside of time, to even God elected every single step you take. For me it was a big wake up call after studying scriptures because the thought is that no matter how goofy you are or things you do that somehow it all works for the good of God anyway. What if, God does not the heart? Scripture clearly says he does for God knows all things, and the subject was pertaining to the heart in John.

I think God knows all things as in "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge". However with man I think mankind is highly predictive in behaviors such as "unbelief". So God knew the conditions that Jesus was born into. God is Love and God is Holy. God didn't ordain those conditions and in fact a loving God warns and warns for our Good for God will show Himself Holy. The importance today is, "whoever calls on the Lord shall be saved", thats a little general but people understand the meaning. Rev 3:20

Randy

 

[Brother Mike]

I think God knows all things as in "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge". However with man I think mankind is highly predictive in behaviors such as "unbelief".

Right, and my point not to have unbelief, ever, in front of God. This is how God knows, and deals with us for future things. We get promotions or we get nothing.

To Abraham God said............ Now I know............. when he was about to sacrifice Issac, God knew that Abraham would trust and obey without reserve, giving to God what he valued most. It's important that God think the same about us, and deals with us knowing that we also are someone he can go to and get the job done. It's a awesome thing when God exalts you, and honor's you.

You can't fool God because he has this vast wisdom and knowledge about you. People repent for not being faithful, thinking that God just knows somehow that they will get in line. God forgives and is faithful, but God is not fooled by the constant repenting into thinking you get promoted anyway based on forgiveness. You can be forgiven just fine staying poor and sick all the time, living a defeated life. It's the life that honor's God who God's blesses for if someone is faithful in little things, then God knows they will be faithful in the true riches and bigger things.

Even asking God for a car, and all God sees with your current car is Mcdonald wrappers and empty coke cans roll out every time you open the door because you don't even appreciate the car you do you have. Not going to work with God.

Being saved is one thing, but having all your prayers come to pass, and being blessed coming in and going out is another. We need to know that everything we do, say and the way we respond determines everything. This is why Paul talked a lot about running his race, staying the course that he may obtain the high prize and calling. He understood, and wanted more and more of that powerful anointing in life having considered everything else worthless.

Blessings.

Mike.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Hey. Are you aware that this link has a links to a Jehovah's Witness sites? This is a JW production?

Not that I am aware of. Here's the words of the translator regarding this question: http://2001translation.com/FOREWORD.htm#_7

Unfortunately, this Name (Jehovah), which was used by almost all religions and Bible translations prior to the 20th Century, has fallen into disrepute in recent years, because one religious group seems to have claimed it as their own. And because it's use in modern Bibles has become so uncommon, many think that the reason why we have restored God's Name is because this Bible is a product of their religion… it isn't.
The Divine Name was probably pronounced Ya-h'wĕh in Hebrew; so, 'Jehovah' is likely not how it was originally pronounced. But, remember that the names of Jesus (Yĕh-sous) and his disciples such as Peter, James, and John (Petro, Ya-ka-bu, and Yo-han-oi) are also commonly mispronounced in English, as are almost all Bible names and terms. So, we have followed the rule of using the common English pronunciations here.

 

[Deborah13]

Hey. Are you aware that this link has a links to a Jehovah's Witness sites? This is a JW production?

Not that I am aware of. Here's the words of the translator regarding this question: http://2001translation.com/FOREWORD.htm#_7

Unfortunately, this Name (Jehovah), which was used by almost all religions and Bible translations prior to the 20th Century, has fallen into disrepute in recent years, because one religious group seems to have claimed it as their own. And because it's use in modern Bibles has become so uncommon, many think that the reason why we have restored God's Name is because this Bible is a product of their religion… it isn't.
The Divine Name was probably pronounced Ya-h'wĕh in Hebrew; so, 'Jehovah' is likely not how it was originally pronounced. But, remember that the names of Jesus (Yĕh-sous) and his disciples such as Peter, James, and John (Petro, Ya-ka-bu, and Yo-han-oi) are also commonly mispronounced in English, as are almost all Bible names and terms. So, we have followed the rule of using the common English pronunciations here.

Go here to the HOME page, scroll to the bottom, in the Gold lettered links. There is one that says, "JWs and Scripture", is links to a JW site. There are others that do, as well. http://2001translation.com/

I would never believe what is presented on a JW site. We are not to worship a name and they do. They don't believe that Jesus was God come in the flesh. They say, "the Word was a god" If they can't translate this correctly, why would a Christian believe their other translation statements to be correct?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I would never believe what is presented on a JW site.

The links definately show that JW's seem to like this translation, don't they? But what does that mean other than they find it to be a good translation? Are you saying that anything the JW's like should be immediately rejected by christians just because they like it? What if the site said God created the Heavens and the Earth in 6 days? What if the site said Jesus was born in Bethleham? Get the point? We can't use blanket reasoning and throw out the baby with the bath water when we encounter a couple issues because if we do then there is nothing we would be able to hold on to because nothing in this world is error free. Let's not be the liberal that ignores everything on Fox News because it's a more conservative news outlet.

Don't get me wrong, the JW's definately teach some error, but what sect does not? We've got to be able to have enough to discerment to where we can see the good and separate it from the error. JW's claim Jesus pre-existed as the Chief Messenger (Arch-Angel Michael), they tend to emphasize keeping the Law, and they say that we live in the last days and have predicted multiple end of the world scenarios that have been wrong. So a total buy in to their line of doctrine is foolish. (as would a total buy into any of the 1000s of man made religions loosely produced from the Bible). However, they do teach some things that line up more accurately with the Bible than what is taught by other sects.

Jesus was God come in the flesh.

As far as this is concerned, I honestly don't know the answer. A couple years ago I would've declared this to be the case without batting an eye, but after looking into this conclusion more deeply I am less inclined to say that is what the Bible teaches. The Greek word "logos" in John 1 and in 1st John presents a challenge.
Looking at the totality of the scriptures I believe multiple reasonable conclusions can be drawn about Jesus' nature. One is that He was the embodiment of God that took up a human tent and dwelt among us. Another is that He was always fully God and is equal to the Father in deity. A third is that Jesus was the embodiment of God's creative purpose as He was able to NOT fall short of God's glory as Adam had and because of that has been given the reign to the Kingdom of God. There is simply not enough info given for me to be dogmatic about either possibility and to dismiss the others.

 

[JLB]

The links definately show that JW's seem to like this translation, don't they? But what does that mean other than they find it to be a good translation?

Jehovah is not by any stretch a good translation.

There are no "J's" in Hebrew.

The Name is YHWH. Men added some letters to the FOUR LETTERS which make up the NAME.

Jehovah is not a recognized name by any of the Jewish scholars -

This pronounceable form of YHWH was introduced in 1520 by Galatinus but immediately strongly contested. Because the Hebrew script only has consonants, the vowels had to be inserted when the text was read out loud.




The Jewish Encyclopedia:
“Jehovah — a mispronunciation of the Hebrew YHWH the name of G-d. This pronunciation is grammatically impossible.â€
(“Jehovah,†The Jewish Encyclopedia, vol. 7, 1904 ed.)

Jehovah is a compound word, meaning it is two words together that form a word.

Here are the two words that form the word Jehovah -

Yah - strong’s number 3050

The other part of this compound word is:
Hovah strong’s number 1943

1. ruin, disaster

Another form for 1943is:
havvah strong’s number 1942

1. desire
   1. desire (in bad sense)
2. chasm (fig. of destruction)
   1. engulfing ruin, destruction, calamity

If you want to add some letters to YHWH add these -


YHWH= YeHoWsHuwa = Jesus

KJV (15) - calamity, 4; iniquity, 1; mischief, 1; mischievous, 1; naughtiness, 1; naughty, 1; noisome, 1; perverse thing, 1; substance, 1; wickedness, 3;

# 1942 is from the word - hava'

1. to fall

JLB