God drags us to Himself John 6:44

[electedbyhim]

I have really been enjoying the book Foundations of Grace by Steven Lawson.

It has brought back great memories when the Lord opened my eyes to His doctrines in the Bible.

Reading this book and coming to the subject of Irresistibly Drawn, has brought back early memories when I struggled with the word "drawn" in John 6:44. Over the years the Lord has really revealed His sovereignty and love for me, it truly shows how much He loves His people that cannot come to Him for salvation. This just refutes any idea that man has a free will to come to Him.

For those that do not believe in the Doctrines of Grace your head will explode after reading what this word truly means.

Here is a quote from Pastor Lawsons book.


Irresistibly Drawn. Jesus explained that all the elect of God—here identified as “ ‘all that the Father gives me’ ”—are drawn to believe upon Him. The divine power guarantees this coming to Christ:

“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.… No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.… This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

—John 6:37, 44a, 65​

Jesus taught that all those chosen by the Father and given to the Son will be irresistibly drawn to Christ. This effectual drawing is so omnipotent that it cannot and will not be resisted. Arthur Custance explains, “The word draw in this passage is a strong one. According to Moulton and Milligan (Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament), the Greek form helkō or helkuō has almost the sense of dragging by force. It is used of hauling bricks, of towing, of dragging along, and even in connection with impressing people as labourers. Thayer (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) says it is used of dragging people, as when Paul is dragged into the market place (Acts 16:19) or out of the Temple (Acts 21:30). John uses it in 18:10 of drawing a sword, and in 21:6 and 11 of failure and then success in dragging a net. James 2:6 uses it in the sense of dragging the poor before a judge. In the Septuagint the use follows very much along the same lines. Obviously there is something here much stronger than the mere attractiveness of a sweet personality, and it is significant that even in John 12:32 the same word is employed: ‘I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me.’ The mere presentation of the drama of Calvary, no matter how effectively or appealingly it is made, will not be enough to attract men. Contrary to popular sentiment, there is a real sense in which sinners are not attracted to the cross but dragged to it. Such is the deadness of the human spirit.”55 Those who come to Christ do so because the Father brings them to Him.

Regarding this powerful drawing, Pink writes, “In what, we may inquire, does this ‘drawing’ consist? It certainly has reference to something more than the invitation of the Gospel. The word used is a strong one, signifying, the putting forth of power and obliging the object seized to respond. The same word is found in John 18:10; 21:6, 11. If the reader consults these passages he will find that it means far more than ‘to attract.’ Impel would give the true force of it here in John 6:44. As said above, the unregenerate sinner is so depraved that with an unchanged heart and mind he will never come to Christ. And the change which is absolutely essential is one which God alone can produce. It is, therefore, by Divine ‘drawing’ that any one comes to Christ. What is this ‘drawing’? We answer, It is the power of the Holy Spirit awakening within him a sense of need. It is the power of the Holy Spirit overcoming the pride of the natural man, so that he is ready to come to Christ as an empty-handed beggar. It is the Holy Spirit creating within him an hunger for the bread of life.”56

4. Supernaturally Taught. Jesus further declared that the elect are taught supernaturally by the Holy Spirit. That is, they are spiritually enabled to comprehend the truth of the gospel, causing them to come to Christ:

“It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.”

—John 6:45​

Jesus maintained that God teaches all of those who are drawn to Him. That is, they receive divine instruction in the truths of the gospel and God’s kingdom that are essential for salvation. This is necessary because fallen man is spiritually blind and ignorant of the gospel. He cannot understand his need for grace. Neither can he genuinely perceive who Christ is. The sinner must be taught by God in order to comprehend the real meaning of the gospel. Hendriksen explains, “It is God who draws before man comes; it is He that teaches before man can listen and learn. Unless the Father draws, no one can come. That is the negative side. The positive is: everyone who listens to the Father and learns of Him will come. Grace always conquers; it does what it sets out to do. In that sense it is irresistible.”57 This is a work of sovereign grace in the heart of “all,” that is, the elect. Calvin writes, “The word ‘all’ must be limited to the elect, as only they are the true children of the church.… From this it follows that not one of God’s elect will not share faith in Christ. Again, just as Christ previously said that not everyone is suitable for believing until they have been drawn, so he now declares that the grace of Christ by which they are drawn is effective, so that they necessarily believe. These two clauses completely overturn the whole ideal of free will.”

 

[Fastfredy0]

Moulton and Milligan (Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament), the Greek form helkō or helkuō has almost the sense of dragging by force.

Interesting ... my notes on the word "draw" says: Kittel’s Theological Dictionary defends draw as to compel by irresistible superiority]
... I wonder if there is a Free Willian Greek dictionary translation with different definitions

 

[electedbyhim]

Interesting ... my notes on the word "draw" says: Kittel’s Theological Dictionary defends draw as to compel by irresistible superiority]
... I wonder if there is a Free Willian Greek dictionary translation with different definitions

I have been meaning to get Kittel.

 

[jasonc]

Interesting ... my notes on the word "draw" says: Kittel’s Theological Dictionary defends draw as to compel by irresistible superiority]
... I wonder if there is a Free Willian Greek dictionary translation with different definitions

IsawGodbymyselfandfellinlove.

 

[journeyman]

Interesting ... my notes on the word "draw" says: Kittel’s Theological Dictionary defends draw as to compel by irresistible superiority]
... I wonder if there is a Free Willian Greek dictionary translation with different definitions

Hello Fastfredy0.
The meaning doesn't have to be changed to include the biblical teaching that Gods' grace can be resisted. The "irresistable drawing" is by what Jesus was doing,

when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.....Jesus
therefore perceived they would come and take him by force to make him a king...Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Jn.6:14-15, 26 KJV

Now the text shows people who profess faith in Him right? And had we been there would we have said, "This is that Prophet.....this is the Messiah"???

Look at the text. Why does Jesus say,

Do not labor for the food which perishes Jn.6:27 NKJV

Why does Jesus say,

from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. Mt.11:12 KJV

Apparently some believers believed Jesus was going to ascend to the throne of David and they wanted him to get there fast.

You see what's happening here? There's a mix of people with different ideas about what the Messiah was going to do.
Even after He conquered death, the Apostles wanted to know if He was going to wipe the Romans out,

Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Act.1:6 KJV

It's astonishing how we can now understand how they later learned His victory over death
conquered the decree of Pontius Pilate and therefore Rome itself.

Also where the judgment of "Babylon" is concerned, Mt.23:35 and Rev.18:24 are identical. It's a fulfillment of Psa.2:2 (KJV (Act.4:26.)

 

[electedbyhim]

Hello Fastfredy0.
The meaning doesn't have to be changed to include the biblical teaching that Gods' grace can be resisted. The "irresistable drawing" is by what Jesus was doing,

when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.....Jesus
therefore perceived they would come and take him by force to make him a king...Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Jn.6:14-15, 26 KJV

Now the text shows people who profess faith in Him right? And had we been there would we have said, "This is that Prophet.....this is the Messiah"???

Look at the text. Why does Jesus say,

Do not labor for the food which perishes Jn.6:27 NKJV

Why does Jesus say,

from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. Mt.11:12 KJV

Apparently some believers believed Jesus was going to ascend to the throne of David and they wanted him to get there fast.

You see what's happening here? There's a mix of people with different ideas about what the Messiah was going to do.
Even after He conquered death, the Apostles wanted to know if He was going to wipe the Romans out,

Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Act.1:6 KJV

It's astonishing how we can now understand how they later learned His victory over death
conquered the decree of Pontius Pilate and therefore Rome itself.

Also where the judgment of "Babylon" is concerned, Mt.23:35 and Rev.18:24 are identical. It's a fulfillment of Psa.2:2 (KJV (Act.4:26.)

The meaning doesn't have to be changed to include the biblical teaching that Gods' grace can be resisted. The "irresistable drawing" is by what Jesus was doing,

You missed the whole point of the o.p.

God's irresistible grace cannot be resisted.

Please re-read and then comment.

 

[journeyman]

You missed the whole point of the o.p.

God's irresistible grace cannot be resisted.

Please re-read and then comment.

I understand what you're saying. The Bible plainly shows mankind resisting Gods' grace. Act.6 is a good example of how Gods' grace can be irresistable but resisted,

And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake Act.6:10 KJV.....“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Act.7:51 NIV

The gospel shows that Jesus warned the people who hated Him because He did not want them to be destroyed.

electedbyhim,
In my last post I clearly showed how "grace is irresistable" when observers see what's happening and are honest about it. That's all the OT, the Messiah and the Apostles say about it in scripture.

Like the lowest of society knew what they were and wanted forgivness vs. the elite who decided for themselves what was in the hearts of others. And not for any real correction, or Godly advice to a loved one out of concern for them.

That Man wept out of grief for people who murdered Him. It's also possible many religious leaders who hated our Lord never witnessed any miracle 1st hand, or the puppet king or Pilate. But that's no excuse for anything.

 

[electedbyhim]

I understand what you're saying. The Bible plainly shows mankind resisting Gods' grace. Act.6 is a good example of how Gods' grace can be irresistable but resisted,

And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake Act.6:10 KJV.....“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Act.7:51 NIV

The gospel shows that Jesus warned the people who hated Him because He did not want them to be destroyed.

electedbyhim,
In my last post I clearly showed how "grace is irresistable" when observers see what's happening and are honest about it. That's all the OT, the Messiah and the Apostles say about it in scripture.

Like the lowest of society knew what they were and wanted forgivness vs. the elite who decided for themselves what was in the hearts of others. And not for any real correction, or Godly advice to a loved one out of concern for them.

That Man wept out of grief for people who murdered Him. It's also possible many religious leaders who hated our Lord never witnessed any miracle 1st hand, or the puppet king or Pilate. But that's no excuse for anything.

These verses have nothing to do with salvation.

The point of the o.p. is that when the Lord chose from the beginning of time, those He would grant salvation, that those people (His elect) will not and can not resist salvation.

Its all about God's sovereignty in salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have really been enjoying the book Foundations of Grace by Steven Lawson.

It has brought back great memories when the Lord opened my eyes to His doctrines in the Bible.

Reading this book and coming to the subject of Irresistibly Drawn, has brought back early memories when I struggled with the word "drawn" in John 6:44. Over the years the Lord has really revealed His sovereignty and love for me, it truly shows how much He loves His people that cannot come to Him for salvation. This just refutes any idea that man has a free will to come to Him.

For those that do not believe in the Doctrines of Grace your head will explode after reading what this word truly means.

Here is a quote from Pastor Lawsons book.


Irresistibly Drawn. Jesus explained that all the elect of God—here identified as “ ‘all that the Father gives me’ ”—are drawn to believe upon Him. The divine power guarantees this coming to Christ:

“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.… No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.… This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

—John 6:37, 44a, 65​

Jesus taught that all those chosen by the Father and given to the Son will be irresistibly drawn to Christ. This effectual drawing is so omnipotent that it cannot and will not be resisted. Arthur Custance explains, “The word draw in this passage is a strong one. According to Moulton and Milligan (Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament), the Greek form helkō or helkuō has almost the sense of dragging by force. It is used of hauling bricks, of towing, of dragging along, and even in connection with impressing people as labourers. Thayer (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) says it is used of dragging people, as when Paul is dragged into the market place (Acts 16:19) or out of the Temple (Acts 21:30). John uses it in 18:10 of drawing a sword, and in 21:6 and 11 of failure and then success in dragging a net. James 2:6 uses it in the sense of dragging the poor before a judge. In the Septuagint the use follows very much along the same lines. Obviously there is something here much stronger than the mere attractiveness of a sweet personality, and it is significant that even in John 12:32 the same word is employed: ‘I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me.’ The mere presentation of the drama of Calvary, no matter how effectively or appealingly it is made, will not be enough to attract men. Contrary to popular sentiment, there is a real sense in which sinners are not attracted to the cross but dragged to it. Such is the deadness of the human spirit.”55 Those who come to Christ do so because the Father brings them to Him.

Regarding this powerful drawing, Pink writes, “In what, we may inquire, does this ‘drawing’ consist? It certainly has reference to something more than the invitation of the Gospel. The word used is a strong one, signifying, the putting forth of power and obliging the object seized to respond. The same word is found in John 18:10; 21:6, 11. If the reader consults these passages he will find that it means far more than ‘to attract.’ Impel would give the true force of it here in John 6:44. As said above, the unregenerate sinner is so depraved that with an unchanged heart and mind he will never come to Christ. And the change which is absolutely essential is one which God alone can produce. It is, therefore, by Divine ‘drawing’ that any one comes to Christ. What is this ‘drawing’? We answer, It is the power of the Holy Spirit awakening within him a sense of need. It is the power of the Holy Spirit overcoming the pride of the natural man, so that he is ready to come to Christ as an empty-handed beggar. It is the Holy Spirit creating within him an hunger for the bread of life.”56

4. Supernaturally Taught. Jesus further declared that the elect are taught supernaturally by the Holy Spirit. That is, they are spiritually enabled to comprehend the truth of the gospel, causing them to come to Christ:

“It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me.”

—John 6:45​

Jesus maintained that God teaches all of those who are drawn to Him. That is, they receive divine instruction in the truths of the gospel and God’s kingdom that are essential for salvation. This is necessary because fallen man is spiritually blind and ignorant of the gospel. He cannot understand his need for grace. Neither can he genuinely perceive who Christ is. The sinner must be taught by God in order to comprehend the real meaning of the gospel. Hendriksen explains, “It is God who draws before man comes; it is He that teaches before man can listen and learn. Unless the Father draws, no one can come. That is the negative side. The positive is: everyone who listens to the Father and learns of Him will come. Grace always conquers; it does what it sets out to do. In that sense it is irresistible.”57 This is a work of sovereign grace in the heart of “all,” that is, the elect. Calvin writes, “The word ‘all’ must be limited to the elect, as only they are the true children of the church.… From this it follows that not one of God’s elect will not share faith in Christ. Again, just as Christ previously said that not everyone is suitable for believing until they have been drawn, so he now declares that the grace of Christ by which they are drawn is effective, so that they necessarily believe. These two clauses completely overturn the whole ideal of free will.”

Why did you have to read a book?
The bible clearly states that all those the Father chooses He will give to Jesus.
That goes beyond drawing....it states Father will GIVE TO JESUS those He has picked.

Question is: How do they get picked?

The reply is in
John 6:45
45“It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.


In Jeremiah God tells us that He Himself will teach us.
Jeremiah 31:34

The Bible is the BEST book to read.
We get God's perspective, and not that of another man.

 

[GodsGrace]

These verses have nothing to do with salvation.

The point of the o.p. is that when the Lord chose from the beginning of time, those He would grant salvation, that those people (His elect) will not and can not resist salvation.

Its all about God's sovereignty in salvation.

WHERE does the bible say that God chose from the beginning who will be saved?
I have yet to see this.

 

[electedbyhim]

Why did you have to read a book?
The bible clearly states that all those the Father chooses He will give to Jesus.
That goes beyond drawing....it states Father will GIVE TO JESUS those He has picked.

Question is: How do they get picked?

The reply is in
John 6:45
45“It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.


In Jeremiah God tells us that He Himself will teach us.
Jeremiah 31:34

The Bible is the BEST book to read.
We get God's perspective, and not that of another man.

The Lord gave Pastors/teachers that understand more then laymen.

He chooses them.

 

[electedbyhim]

WHERE does the bible say that God chose from the beginning who will be saved?
I have yet to see this.

I have given you these verses in the other threads.

However, you did not reply to those verses that I provided.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Lord gave Pastors/teachers that understand more then laymen.

He chooses them.

I agree generally.
We need theologians.

I'm happy you found the book edifying.
I wish you believed that all persons have a hope of being saved .
'Night.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have given you these verses in the other threads.

However, you did not reply to those verses that I provided.

Too late now to reply but do you remember where?

Tomorrow.

 

[electedbyhim]

I agree generally.
We need theologians.

I'm happy you found the book edifying.
I wish you believed that all persons have a hope of being saved .
'Night.

But the Bible does not teach that all persons will be saved, so I cannot believe that.

Jesus clearly states "few" are chosen.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I wish you believed that all persons have a hope of being saved . Electedbyhim replied: But the Bible does not teach that all persons will be saved, so I cannot believe that.

electedbyhim .... She believes you don't even need to know of Christ to be saved which is another gospel and contradicts scripture. I recall her saying Muslims can go to heaven.


... leads to interesting questions that I never get answers to like:
1) which gospel is more efficient: Salvation via faith in Christ or this other gospel
2) define this other gospel of how one gets saved without knowledge of Christ
3) If one is saved via this other gospel and then hears of Christ and does not believe ... is the person still saved?

If I had a nickel for every time I heard the Romans 1 is proof of salvation without Christ I'd probably have a dollar. *giggle*

 

[journeyman]

These verses have nothing to do with salvation.

The point of the o.p. is that when the Lord chose from the beginning of time, those He would grant salvation, that those people (His elect) will not and can not resist salvation.

Its all about God's sovereignty in salvation.

Oh no my friend. All scripture is crystal clear that when the Lord chose from the beginning of time, those He would grant salvation, that those people (His elect) would not and could not resist salvation. Not because they could not if they wanted to. It's because they began to understand why they should not and that is why they would not.

That is the point of God speaking through prophets.

 

[journeyman]

But the Bible does not teach that all persons will be saved, so I cannot believe that.

Jesus clearly states "few" are chosen.

Few but more than could be counted like sand by the grain.
So maybe few compared to more that won't reoent.

 

[journeyman]

Why did you have to read a book?
The bible clearly states that all those the Father chooses He will give to Jesus.
That goes beyond drawing....it states Father will GIVE TO JESUS those He has picked.

Question is: How do they get picked?

The reply is in
John 6:45
45“It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

In Jeremiah God tells us that He Himself will teach us.
Jeremiah 31:34

The Bible is the BEST book to read.
We get God's perspective, and not that of another man.

Exactly right. He took control of defining scripture in a way that offended the the temple priests and many rabbis.

It's truly amazing from Gods' perspective as a man that He was a witness to the evil in every sinner. What I'm wondering is if anyone here can tell me what or where "the horrible pit" is in this passage,

He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, Psa.40:2 KJV

 

[journeyman]

WHERE does the bible say that God chose from the beginning who will be saved?
I have yet to see this.

It's right here,

but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit and trembleth at my word. Isa.66:2 KJV

I also have heard thee saith the LORD. 2Kin.22:19 KJV

Why? Read the text.