God drags us to Himself John 6:44

[electedbyhim]

We're instructed not to grieve the Holy Spirit. We can grieve Him by disagreeing to the point of being unkind to one another, but we can also grieve the Spirit by knowingly living in rebellion,

with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? Heb.3:17
KJV

I am not certain why you are posting this.

 

[Whatever]

".....that you may be sons of your Father in heaven"... ..what before that ? Why...may you be? Jesus specifically told His listeners to do something..."that [we] may be the children of our Father in heaven."

I don't know why you have to take a Scripture I post that has a message "God sends rain on the just and the unjust" and turn it around to something else without dealing with the actual point - that God sends common grace to all people. What He tells them to do is besides the point.

Pro 29:13 The poor man and the oppressor have this in common: The LORD gives light to the eyes of both.

 

[journeyman]

I am not certain why you are posting this.

I posted it because the people who kept grieving the Holy Spirit were damned.

 

[electedbyhim]

I posted it because the people who kept grieving the Holy Spirit were damned.

Need to stay focused on the topic.

I am quite confused by your posts.

 

[journeyman]

In all honesty you post was confusing. I am pretty certain you do not understand my heart and thoughts.

I'm not anyones Judge.

Again, the verses have nothing to do with salvation, it has to do with Gods wrath

It has to do with escaping Gods' wrath and that is plain from the text surrounding it.

and giving unregenerate man over to depravity.

If people were totally depraved to begin with God wouldn't have to "give anyone over to depravity."

You have also not kept to the op.

Please stay focused.

The op says God "drags" people to Himself. Looking at the text, God "draws" sinners by proofs, not by going eenie, meanie, miney, moe.
This idea that God arbitrarily chooses people for no reason sinners can understand isn't true.
And it says when sinners saw Gods' wrath falling, they repented. I think it would be useless to cite passages proving this.

 

[journeyman]

Need to stay focused on the topic.

I am quite confused by your posts.

Your point is grieving the Holy Spirit won't affect a believers salvation,

I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. Psa.95:11

You are wrong.

 

[JLB]

Jesus taught that all those chosen by the Father and given to the Son will be irresistibly drawn to Christ.

Judas continued with the other eleven when the other disciples turn away from following Him.

Judas was drawn and became a disciple.


Then he chose to become a traitor as God foresaw, in which He recorded in scripture.




Each of us has choice whether to serve Christ to the end or not.

Those who endure to the end will be saved.






JLB

 

[journeyman]

I don't know why you have to take a Scripture I post that has a message "God sends rain on the just and the unjust" and turn it around to something else without dealing with the actual point - that God sends common grace to all people.

And so Gods' point is....."Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you Mt.5:44 KJV

What He tells them to do is besides the point.

NO. Our Savior Jesus Christ is saying God shows grace to His enemies. He loves those who hate Him. He does good to those who curse Him. It sounds like a man with the power to destroy his enemies by blinking, but instead hangs from a cross enduring jeers.

Pro 29:13 The poor man and the oppressor have this in common: The LORD gives light to the eyes of both.

I'm not the one denying Gods' enemies can see the truth and repent. The Bible says I was an enemy of God by how I lived,

you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled Col.1:21 KJV

I was "reconciled" when I understood Jesus could have anihilated sinners including any wicked spirit from the word "Go."

His patience is meant to lead sinners to repentance......"do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?" Rom.2:4 NIV

You know how Jesus turned the wrath of His Father away right? Turned Gods' wrath away from the wicked. Now realize Who Jesus is, was and always will be.

 

[Whatever]

And those who endure to the end are God's elect. The Lord keeps them in the faith.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

Stands= Strong's G4739 - stēkō = to stand firm, to persevere, to persist, to keep one's standing
Made = Strong's G1415 - dynatos = able, powerful, mighty, strong

Jud 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy

I know, I know, what Paul is really saying is that Jesus is able to keep you from stumbling as long as you don't stumble yourself. Perfect logic

 

[electedbyhim]

Judas continued with the other eleven when the other disciples turn away from following Him.

Judas was drawn and became a disciple.


Then he chose to become a traitor as God foresaw, in which He recorded in scripture.




Each of us has choice whether to serve Christ to the end or not.

Those who endure to the end will be saved.






JLB

"Drawn" in the text is salvation.

John6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Judas was not saved.

John 17:12 "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

 

[electedbyhim]

Your point is grieving the Holy Spirit won't affect a believers salvation,

I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. Psa.95:11

You are wrong.

You make no sense in your replies.

I just do not understand what you are trying to say.

You jump all over the place.

Very confusing, which leads me to believe that you are confused yourself.

 

[JLB]

"Drawn" in the text is salvation.

John6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Judas was not saved.

Judas was drawn to Christ and followed Him for 3 years along with the others.

Judas was promoted to an Apostle with the others.

Judas was empowered with the Spirit and sent us to preach the Gospel to the lost with the others.

Then after these things Judas became a traitor, and never returned to Christ to be forgiven and restored as Peter did.

Judas instead committed suicide and died in his sins.

Judas did not endure to the end.


But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13






JLB

 

[journeyman]

You make no sense in your replies.

I just do not understand what you are trying to say.

You jump all over the place.

Very confusing, which leads me to believe that you are confused yourself.

I didn't bring up "grieving" the Holy Spirit. I showed how continuously grievingGods' Spirit led to being condemned. I simply pointed out that the NT writer is telling the NT church that story for a reason.

If that confuses you, the reason may be the false teaching that God will tolerate sin no matter what a believer does. Jesus said,

first be reconciled to thy brother and then come and offer thy gift. Mt.5:24 KJV

I'm not jumping. God doesn't ever hear people who think they can serve Him without repentance.

 

[electedbyhim]

Judas was drawn to Christ and followed Him for 3 years along with the others.

Judas was promoted to an Apostle with the others.

Judas was empowered with the Spirit and sent us to preach the Gospel to the lost with the others.

Then after these things Judas became a traitor, and never returned to Christ to be forgiven and restored as Peter did.

Judas instead committed suicide and died in his sins.

Judas did not endure to the end.


But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13






JLB

Thank you for your opinions, but your post has nothing to do with salvation.

This thread is about John 6:44

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Please stay on topic.

Please stay focused.

 

[electedbyhim]

I didn't bring up "grieving" the Holy Spirit. I showed how continuously grievingGods' Spirit led to being condemned. I simply pointed out that the NT writer is telling the NT church that story for a reason.

If that confuses you, the reason may be the false teaching that God will tolerate sin no matter what a believer does. Jesus said,

first be reconciled to thy brother and then come and offer thy gift. Mt.5:24 KJV

I'm not jumping. God doesn't ever hear people who think they can serve Him without repentance.

Again, what are you talking about repentance for?

Who is talking about God tolerating sin?

I cannot be regenerated if I did not repent of sins.

What does this have to do with the o.p.?

Your posts are very confusing.

 

[electedbyhim]

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.


ESV Study note - No one can come to me means “no one is able to come to me” (Gk. dynamai means “to be able”). This implies that no human being in the world, on his own, has the moral and spiritual ability to come to Christ unless God the Father draws him, that is, gives him the desire and inclination to come and the ability to place trust in Christ (see notes on Jn 6:37; 12:32).


John MacArthur - the Bible indicates that fallen man is unable, of his own volition, to come to Jesus Christ. Unregenerate people are dead in sin (Eph. 2:1; Col. 2:13), slaves to unrighteousness (John 8:34; Rom. 6:6, 17, 20), alienated from God (Col. 1:21), and hostile to Him (Rom. 5:10; 8:7). They are spiritually blind (2 Cor. 4:4) captives (2 Tim. 2:26) trapped in Satan’s kingdom (Col. 1:13), powerless to change their sinful natures (Jer. 13:23; Rom. 5:6), unable to please God (Rom. 8:8), and incapable of understanding spiritual truth (1 Cor. 2:14; cf. John 14:17). Although the human will is involved in coming to Christ (since no one is saved apart from believing the gospel—Mark 1:15; Acts 15:7; Rom. 1:16; 10:9–15; Eph. 1:13), sinners cannot come to Him of their own free will. (Moreover, a comparison of verse 44 with verse 37 shows that God’s drawing cannot apply to all unregenerate people, as proponents of prevenient grace argue, because verse 37 limits it to the redeemed whom God has given to Christ.) God irresistibly, efficaciously draws to Christ only those whom He chose for salvation in eternity past (Eph. 1:4–5, 11).



Martin Luther - Luther has put these words into classical form: “I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the gospel, … and will at the last day raise up me and all the dead, and give unto me and all believers in Christ eternal life. This is most certainly true.”


Spurgeon - “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him.” John 6:44

When man fell in the garden, manhood fell entirely; there was not one single pillar in the temple of manhood that stood erect. It is true, conscience was not destroyed. The pillar was not shattered; it fell, and it fell in one piece, and there it lies along, the mightiest remnant of God’s once perfect work in man. But that conscience is fallen, I am sure. Look at men. Who among them is the possessor of a “good conscience towards God,” but the regenerated man? Do you imagine that if men’s consciences always spoke loudly and clearly to them, they would live in the daily commission of acts, which are as opposed to the right as darkness is to light? No, beloved; conscience can tell me that I am a sinner, but conscience cannot make me feel that I am one. Conscience may tell me that such and such a thing is wrong, but how wrong it is conscience itself does not know. Did any man’s conscience, unenlightened by the Spirit, ever tell him that his sins deserved damnation? Or if conscience did do that, did it ever lead any man to feel an abhorrence of sin as sin? In fact, did conscience ever bring a man to such a self-renunciation, that he did totally abhor himself and all his works and come to Christ? No, conscience, although it is not dead, is ruined, its power is impaired, it has not that clearness of eye and that strength of hand, and that thunder of voice, which it had before the fall; but has ceased to a great degree, to exert its supremacy in the town of Mansoul. Then, beloved, it becomes necessary for this very reason, because conscience is depraved, that the Holy Spirit should step in, to show us our need of a Saviour, and draw us to the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[JLB]

Thank you for your opinions, but your post has nothing to do with salvation.

This thread is about John 6:44

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Please stay on topic.

Please stay focused.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth —

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 24:13






JLB

 

[electedbyhim]

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 24:13






JLB

Again nothing to do with the o.p.

If God draws His elect to salvation, He will also perfect them to the end.

The Bible does not teach that a Christian can walk away from the faith.

Start another thread on this.

Stay on topic.

Why is that so hard?

 

[JLB]

Again nothing to do with the o.p.

If God draws His elect to salvation, He will also perfect them to the end.

The Bible does not teach that a Christian can walk away from the faith.

Start another thread on this.

Stay on topic.

Why is that so hard?

Salvation requires enduring to the end.


Jesus Christ of Nazareth —

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 24:13

The Bible does not teach that a Christian can walk away from the faith.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1




JLB

 

[electedbyhim]

Salvation requires enduring to the end.


Jesus Christ of Nazareth —

But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 24:13


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1




JLB

Please start a new thread and we will debate this.

You are not understanding these verses.

Stay on topic, why is that so hard to do?

Human pride gets in the way.