Bible Study GOD HATES SHRIMP!!

[Kasey]

[quote="Orthodox Christian":7137f]I find Kasey's parallel between muder, adultery, and the eating of shrimp utterly ridiculous. Dietary law was not written on tablets of stone. Further, my eating of shrimp does not afflict or abuse my brother. You will find that the Decalogue is entirely relational, as Jesus demonstrated in His 2 Great Commandments.

He Himself said that it was not went into a man that defiled him, but what comes from a man's heart that does.

Should I need point out the obvious?

I dont care how you find this to be. Its a dietary health statute that was instituted for the good of the people. However, yes, it does afflict and abuse your brother because if you say that its ok to eat shrimp to your brother, your telling him its ok to sin because this statute is a statute commanded by God to keep.

According to Paul, and according to the decision at Jerusalem in Acts 15:20, dietary laws do not apply to Gentiles. As for "abuse"- we are warned only not to let our freedom serve as a stumblingblock to the weaker brother 1 cor 8:9- so I wouldn't serve or eat shrimp in your presence.
Now, do you argue also that we all must be circumcised?

Oh, by the way, you took that quote entirely out of context. Its abou eating with un-washen hands as was dictated by the Traditions of the Elders from the Pharisees which become the Babylonian Talmud of Judaism.

Get your facts straight before you dare to try to use them to support what you say.

You forget, Kasey, that this admonition from Christ is found in Matthew 15- where the context is washing- AND in Mark 7, where my point is well founded. But let's allow the scriptures to speak:
Mark 7:14, KJV

And when he had called all the people [unto him], he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one [of you], and understand:
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, [it] cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Do you not understand this teaching, Kasey? It is the very teaching that led Paul to preach observance to the spirit of the Law, not the letter of the Mosaic statutes.

So Kasey, have you got your facts straight now?
Have a great day.
O.C.[/quote:7137f]

All those things that Paul mentioned in Acts 15:20 are direct quoations from the Law and the Prophets. How convienent that you did not mention that.

You think that just because Christ mentioned the word "meats" that that included violating God's statutes against eating unclean meats? Perhaps you should look that the Context of ALL of this. Its talking about the Traditions of the Elders as stated contexually by Mark 7:3. The Traditions of the Elders was NOT God's Law. There is a difference.

Yeah, "you" REALLY need to get your facts straight. Stop teaching that its ok to eat unclean meat when God specifically told people not to for the good of their own health. Your promoting sin and because of that, if you dont turn around, you will share the consequences of those stated in Matthew 7:21-23.

You, by all means, have a day.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Kasey: did you miss this question?

Now, do you argue also that we all must be circumcised?

What part of "there is nothing from without a man that entering him can defile him" do you not understand, Kasey?
perhaps the words of James in Acts 15:20 didn't make the point for you- let's read the instructions to the Gentile churches in Acts 15:24

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:

Subverting souls, Kasey, this is what you are doing with your Pelagianist/Ebionite doctrine. Can the scriptures be any clearer?

Regarding the health issues- when it comes to health, shrimp really is no problem- no more than the kosher fish fillets laden with mercury. If you wish to discuss the relative health merits of eating thus and such, fine, couch them as discussions of health, not matters of salvation and righteousness.

O.C.
PS I work out 4-5 days a week, I'm 42 and have 6% bodyfat, blood pressure and cholesterol good, resting heart rate 52. I fast from meat and dairy over half the year. I know health, my good man- and I know scripture.

 

[Kasey]

Kasey: did you miss this question?

Now, do you argue also that we all must be circumcised?

What part of "there is nothing from without a man that entering him can defile him" do you not understand, Kasey?
perhaps the words of James in Acts 15:20 didn't make the point for you- let's read the instructions to the Gentile churches in Acts 15:24
[quote:4f3b9]Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:

Subverting souls, Kasey, this is what you are doing with your Pelagianist/Ebionite doctrine. Can the scriptures be any clearer?

Regarding the health issues- when it comes to health, shrimp really is no problem- no more than the kosher fish fillets laden with mercury. If you wish to discuss the relative health merits of eating thus and such, fine, couch them as discussions of health, not matters of salvation and righteousness.

O.C.
PS I work out 4-5 days a week, I'm 42 and have 6% bodyfat, blood pressure and cholesterol good, resting heart rate 52. I fast from meat and dairy over half the year. I know health, my good man- and I know scripture.[/quote:4f3b9]

That question is not the issue. The issue is whether or not to keep God's commandments, statutes and judgment.

They were teaching that you need to keep the Levitical Priesthood Law. Its not talking about God's Law because Paul quoted from God's commandments, statutes and judgments in the previous verses - Acts 15:20.

What part do you not understand that the context being spoken about by Christ was the Traditions of the Elders and not God's commandments, statutes and judgments?

Im not promoting anything else outside of the scriptures. You believe in Roman Catholic and Judeo-Christian lies that basically pick and choose which laws you want to keep. The dietary and health laws were instituted for the Health of God's people. Who are "you" to try to make them out to be something that we dont have to keep? Its a violation of God's Law to eat them, because its harmful to humans. Thats a fact.

It has everything to do with rightouesness. Psalms 119:171-172 states that God's statutes and commandments are rightouesness. If you say for one second that the statutes of clean and unclean meats have nothing to do with rightouesness, then your an out-right liar. Your promoting sin, which is the violation of GOd's Law as stated in 1 John 3:4.

If you think you know scripture, then you should know full and well that if you promote sin, you are practicing iniquity and therefore, according to Matthew 7:21-23, you are going to be rejected by Christ.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

LOL
You're dodging the circumcision question, aren't you?
<bump>


"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him"
Iesou

 

[Kasey]

LOL
You're dodging the circumcision question, aren't you?
<bump>


"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him"
Iesou

Circumcision is not the issue. God's Law is. As with your petty little quote - the context is the Traditions of the Elders - that which became the Babylonian Talmud of Judaism, not God's commandments, statutes and judgments.

Case closed.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

As with your petty little quote

I don't think anything Jesus said could ever be considered a "petty little quote." I have great respect for every word that He spoke and speaks.

I can understand why you are avoiding the circumcision issue, it's a done deal. That's why you're dancing around the semantics of dietary rules for the Hebrews.

"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him"

Kasey, the nothing means nothing, not something. It's quite simple.

Eat hearty.

 

[Kasey]

As with your petty little quote

I don't think anything Jesus said could ever be considered a "petty little quote." I have great respect for every word that He spoke and speaks.

I can understand why you are avoiding the circumcision issue, it's a done deal. That's why you're dancing around the semantics of dietary rules for the Hebrews.

[quote="A good friend of Jesus relating the very words of the Master":e1138]"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him"

Kasey, the nothing means nothing, not something. It's quite simple.

Eat hearty.[/quote:e1138]

It used the word "petty" as that scripture that you quoted was used in a petty way to try to discredit what I was saying. It didnt work. Period. Christ was speaking in context of what the Pharisees were talking about and that is the Traditions of the Elders.

You say you put great value on what Christ said, yet, since you ignore the context, that makes that statement null and void, that makes you a liar.

Circumsicion is not the issue at all. I think you know this and you are desperately trying to use that as to gain credibility to make me look like IM avoiding the issue when Im not - you are. The issue is keeping God's commandments, statutes and judgments, not circumsicion.

Clean and UNclean meats are a statute of God. You have no right to say that you dont have to keep it as Christ himself told numerous people numerous times to keep God's commandments, STATUTES and judgments.

Cased closed. Keep God's commandments, statutes and judgments; that includes the dietary and health laws. If you dont, you are practicing iniquity - the violation of God's Law according to Strong's Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon. As a result of that, read your obituary, its in Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

It used the word "petty" as that scripture that you quoted was used in a petty way to try to discredit what I was saying. It didnt work. Period. Christ was speaking in context of what the Pharisees were talking about and that is the Traditions of the Elders.

Actually, according to you, my use of that verse was liberal, not petty.
Petty would define your reading of that verse

Marked by narrowness of mind, ideas, or views

Or your personna on this board

Marked by meanness or lack of generosity, especially in trifling matters

All the clean food in the world will not wash a heart full of murder, Kasey.

You say you put great value on what Christ said, yet, since you ignore the context, that makes that statement null and void, that makes you a liar.

I value the whole counsel of scripture, which makes it abundantly clear that Christ's words were taken quite literally by the Apostles at the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15). Paul captures this spirit thus:

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean

It is you, Kasey, who are a liar, and an abusive, petty individual with a narrow and poor command of the teaching of Christ.

Circumsicion is not the issue at all. I think you know this and you are desperately trying to use that as to gain credibility to make me look like IM avoiding the issue when Im not - you are. The issue is keeping God's commandments, statutes and judgments, not circumsicion.

You avoid speaking of circumcision, for you know that it is a thread that when pulled unravels the whole sweater.

Clean and UNclean meats are a statute of God. You have no right to say that you dont have to keep it as Christ himself told numerous people numerous times to keep God's commandments, STATUTES and judgments.

I in myself have no right to say so, but the New Testament, specifically Paul, makes the argument for me. Put your angry red face in the midst of the New Testament and read some time.

Cased closed. Keep God's commandments, statutes and judgments; that includes the dietary and health laws. If you dont, you are practicing iniquity - the violation of God's Law according to Strong's Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon. As a result of that, read your obituary, its in Matthew 7:21-23.

Kasey, that's a cowardly, indirect way to tell me to go to hell- well in keeping with the spirit of the rest of your posts.

And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

 

[TING]

1) It was sin in the old testament. That was the old testament, we live in a new day and age (since Jesus came back and died on the cross for us). We don't go by the old testament, although there are important things to know in there, we go by the new testament. What Jesus came back for.

This is an abomination, equal to the abomination of homosexuality. This one is important.

 

[Kasey]

It used the word "petty" as that scripture that you quoted was used in a petty way to try to discredit what I was saying. It didnt work. Period. Christ was speaking in context of what the Pharisees were talking about and that is the Traditions of the Elders.

Actually, according to you, my use of that verse was liberal, not petty.
Petty would define your reading of that verse

Marked by narrowness of mind, ideas, or views

Or your personna on this board
[quote:74301]Marked by meanness or lack of generosity, especially in trifling matters

All the clean food in the world will not wash a heart full of murder, Kasey.

You say you put great value on what Christ said, yet, since you ignore the context, that makes that statement null and void, that makes you a liar.

I value the whole counsel of scripture, which makes it abundantly clear that Christ's words were taken quite literally by the Apostles at the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15). Paul captures this spirit thus:

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean

It is you, Kasey, who are a liar, and an abusive, petty individual with a narrow and poor command of the teaching of Christ.

Circumsicion is not the issue at all. I think you know this and you are desperately trying to use that as to gain credibility to make me look like IM avoiding the issue when Im not - you are. The issue is keeping God's commandments, statutes and judgments, not circumsicion.

You avoid speaking of circumcision, for you know that it is a thread that when pulled unravels the whole sweater.

Clean and UNclean meats are a statute of God. You have no right to say that you dont have to keep it as Christ himself told numerous people numerous times to keep God's commandments, STATUTES and judgments.

I in myself have no right to say so, but the New Testament, specifically Paul, makes the argument for me. Put your angry red face in the midst of the New Testament and read some time.

Cased closed. Keep God's commandments, statutes and judgments; that includes the dietary and health laws. If you dont, you are practicing iniquity - the violation of God's Law according to Strong's Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon. As a result of that, read your obituary, its in Matthew 7:21-23.

Kasey, that's a cowardly, indirect way to tell me to go to hell- well in keeping with the spirit of the rest of your posts.

And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

[/quote:74301]

The Book of Romans speaks nothing of the sort that would contradict God's Law. It is speaking of those things that are outside of God's Law. If a man thinks he shouldnt eat beef, even though its ok to eat it according to God's Law, let him do it that way. If he desires to have another day unto the Lord aside from the Fourth-Commandment sabbath, let it be so.

For you to use Paul's words to twist the reality is utter non-sense. Paul does not speak against keeping God's commandments, statutes and judgments, He speaks against keeping the Levitical Priesthood Law - Hebrews 9-10 is only just a clue :roll:

Oh, and by the way, if you say that you dont have to keep God's Law, you ARE going to hell. Christ said that in order to have Eternal Life, you must keep God's commandments - Matthew 19:16-17.

Your a liar.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Oh, and by the way, if you say that you dont have to keep God's Law, you ARE going to hell. Christ said that in order to have Eternal Life, you must keep God's commandments - Matthew 19:16-17.

Your a liar.

A man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law, Ebionite/Pelagian heretic. You will be judged by Moses.

BTW:
'Your' is a possessive second person pronoun. You're is the contraction of you are, which is presumably what you were looking for. But perhaps not- I could see you signing off in this manner:
"Yours, a liar."

But I make no such claim. I claim that you are a heretic and a Judaizer, and as Paul says, it would be good if you went all the way and mutilated yourself proper.

 

[Kasey]

Oh, and by the way, if you say that you dont have to keep God's Law, you ARE going to hell. Christ said that in order to have Eternal Life, you must keep God's commandments - Matthew 19:16-17.

Your a liar.

A man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law, Ebionite/Pelagian heretic. You will be judged by Moses.

BTW:
'Your' is a possessive second person pronoun. You're is the contraction of you are, which is presumably what you were looking for. But perhaps not- I could see you signing off in this manner:

"Yours, a liar."

But I make no such claim. I claim that you are a heretic and a Judaizer, and as Paul says, it would be good if you went all the way and mutilated yourself proper.

Yeah, justified in faith in Christ Jesus who told people to keep God's commandments, statutes and judgments, of who kept those same commandmjents himself. You are not justified by keeping the Levitical Priesthood Law.

Get your head out of the dark and study up on the difference between God's commandments, statutes and judgments and the Levitical Priesthood System. I will give you a hit - the seperate markes is Exodus 24:3.

Roman Catholicism and JUDEO-Christianity is Judaism, not what im teaching. The Bible, or the Law and the Prophets is not Judaism - The Traditions of the Elders, or, The Babylonian Talmud and the Kabbalah are Judaism.

Ive been called worse, but the difference between me and you as that Im not the genuine liar or heretic, if you will, you are. You lead people into sin, into the violation of God's Law. Therefore, you are the one who shall meet your just reward and that is in Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Yeah, justified in faith in Christ Jesus (and not of works that any man should) who told people to keep God's commandments, statutes and judgments, of who kept those same commandmjents himself. You are not justified by keeping the Levitical Priesthood Law.

We are not justified by ANY works of the law, but are justified by faith in the Son of God. Avraham was likewise justified. You, who attempt to keep part of the law, demonstrate on this very thread that you ignore the weightier aspects- in particular, mercy. Ignorance can be forgiven. You claim that I am ignorant, and you are illumined. Therefore, as you stand and explain to Moses your failure in the keeping of God's covenant with Israel, may God show you mercy on the account of my prayer that He do so. BY the conduct and curses that you proclaim upon those with whom you disagree, you are in danger of fearful judgement, according to Matthew 5 :22 and Matthew 7:2.

When I say that you are a heretic, I mean that you are at odds/variance with established Christian doctrine. This by no means is equivalent with me saying that you are going to hell- I have no way of knowing who is, and who is not. However, when the Lord says that judgement will be harsh upon those who judge harshly, I am impelled to warn you. O foolish man, do you think God is angered by the consumption of shellfish, but winks at your murderous condemnation?

Get your head out of the dark and study up on the difference between God's commandments, statutes and judgments and the Levitical Priesthood System. I will give you a hit - the seperate markes is Exodus 24:3.

Thanks for the hint. Here's one in return: the "we" in the "we will do" is the nation of Israel. This is not the covenant with the Gentiles. The old covenant "waxed" and the new has come. "For that old system deals only with food and drink and ritual washing--external regulations that are in effect only until their limitations can be corrected." (Heb 9:10, NLT).
Food is nothing, drink nothing, love is everything. Those seeking to support the rituals of food and drink were a party to the death of the Savior. But we have been shown a profound liberty within the absolute confines of love.
"Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

Roman Catholicism and JUDEO-Christianity is Judaism, not what im teaching.

You are not well advised to teach, Kasey. In all sincerity, the tutor does not beat his students. A good teacher loves his subject matter, but his students more.

The Bible, or the Law and the Prophets is not Judaism - The Traditions of the Elders, or, The Babylonian Talmud and the Kabbalah are Judaism.

Ive been called worse, but the difference between me and you as that Im not the genuine liar or heretic, if you will, you are.

I haven't called you a liar, Kasey, that's your predisposition to do so. I called you a heretic, which you clearly are. You seem to take pride in being a heretic from 'established Christianity.' Therefore, I cannot imagin why you would take offense at this statement of fact. You, on the other hand, have engaged in spiteful name-calling.

You're forgiven.

You lead people into sin, into the violation of God's Law. Therefore, you are the one who shall meet your just reward and that is in Matthew 7:21-23.

I'm very concerned about whether my example is one that demonstrates the love of Christ. I think that I have need of God's mercy in that respect. As for teaching people to disobey God's law- I do not. You're demonstrably wrong regarding what God's commands are to Christians.

Kyrie eleison.