Bible Study God is not the God of the Dead, but of the Living: Your Soul Lives on Forever.

[Tenchi]

I am talking about the mysteries made known in the Bible they are not made known to any outside of Christ.

Okay. But these "mysteries" aren't in view in the parables in Luke 15 and 16.

A person cannot make up their own.

Sure they can. You seem to me to be doing this very thing in your analysis of the parables of Luke 15 and 16. Of course, people shouldn't make up their own spiritual mysteries but "shouldn't" implies that they can, right?

But of what value to Christ our spiritual understanding is limited to sola scriptura all things written in the law and prophets (Bible)

Not sure what you're saying here...

Mammon worldly riches in four different parables with the same conclusion (sheep . woman losing silver, rich father in that series is compared to the Riches of the Bible all things written in Moses and the prophets on like other parables

??? Jesus explained what the point of each of his parables was. Do you know his meaning better than he does? Here's what Christ himself indicated was the point of each of his parables:

The Lost Sheep

Luke 15:7
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner who repents, more than over ninety and nine just persons, who need no repentance.

The Lost Coin

Luke 15:9-10
9 And when she has found it, she calls her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.

The Prodigal Son

Luke 15:20-24
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight, and am no more worthy to be called your son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring here the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

The Unfaithful Steward

Luke 16:8-14
8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when you fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
10 He who is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he who is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if you have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

Lazarus and the Rich Man

Luke 16:27-31
27 Then he said, I pray you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brothers; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham said unto him, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them."
30 And he said, No, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent."
31 And he said unto him, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

What Jesus meant to teach in each of these parables is very clear, it seems to me. In none but one of his parables does he mention "mammon" and then he does so only to make a point about the faithlessness of the Pharisees who, though stewards of the Law of God, were servants of mammon (...the Pharisees, who were covetous... Luke 16:13). In all of the parables of Luke 15, Christ points to the heavenly joy over a lost sinner coming to repentance, not to a contrast between mammon "wisdom" and godly wisdom. And in the parables of Luke 16, Christ was driving at the covetousness, faithlessness, hypocrisy and hardness of heart of the Pharisees, not "mammon wisdom."

I'm being very direct in my responses to you, not couching my remarks in soft, tender language, because you seem to be trying to teach from God's word rather than just inquiring about, and discovering, it's truth. I hold those who propose to teach from Scripture, to tell others what it means, to a very high standard, however; and if they are in obvious error, I don't pussyfoot around the fact that they are. God's word is serious business and so I have little grace for poor teaching from it. In this, I emulate Paul, Peter, John and Christ himself. My directness isn't to make you feel offended but to treat God's word with the seriousness and carefulness it deserves.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Okay. But these "mysteries" aren't in view in the parables in Luke 15 and 16.

What is in view in that series .what is the spiritual understanding of the eternal not seen and that of the literal temporal seen ? Are you saying there are no parables in chapter 15 and 16?

ure they can. You seem to me to be doing this very thing in your analysis of the parables of Luke 15 and 16. Of course, people shouldn't make up their own spiritual mysteries but "shouldn't" implies that they can, right?

Yes, he has given us the interpreting tool to rightly divide the parables in order understand the mysteries of His faith.

Why study without it?

Why do you think he gave the mixing prescription to us.

To avoid finding the understanding of parables?

2 corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Mr. G Lee the parable is about the lost sheep. It is in the name. It isn't the parable of the 99 safe sheep. If it were about riches, logic would dictate the 99 were more valuable than the 1. The smartest choice would be to protect the 99 you have. Through time the herd will grow and the sheep would be replaced

I can preach. . Christ is the teacher who shows us how to rightly divide the parables.

I don't think we are talking about the smartest choice as the understanding to the parable

Simply comparing the riches of this world with lost sheep .

Parable.. . . that which comes along side of another revealing the spiritual eternal gospel understand .. . . as a figure of speech not the literal understanding what the eyes see the temporal

Then Jesus goes on to explain the parable.

The you do acknowledge it is a parable

You have this right. The Father is God. The son is born again. But the son during his time of "riotous living " (ya gotta love how the King James version phrases things) was in a backslidden condition. That is different than the sheep that was outright lost. So they are clearly not communicating the same message. Jesus is telling us that a person who is in a backslidden condition is still saved. The son knows who his father is. You notice that the father does not persue the son the way the shepherd pursued the lost sheep. In the prodigal son parable the Father watches and waits for the son's return. The rejoicing is the same when the son returns.

You would have to remember where that backsliding came .The rich father who owns ever thing gave the riches as mammon and he spend it foolishly. The same richness of the waiting Father drew him back a picture of repenting returning to his first love of the father.

 

[Tenchi]

What is in view in that series .what is the spiritual understanding of the eternal not seen and that of the literal temporal seen ? Are you saying there are no parables in chapter 15 and 16?

Just read my last post to you.

Yes, he has given us the interpreting tool to rightly divide the parables in order understand the mysteries of His faith.

And, many times, God gives to us a plain, straightforward explanation of what He means, as Jesus did in the parables of Luke 15 and 16. No convoluted "interpreting" necessary.

Why study without it?

Study does not require imposing meaning on Scripture. This is eisegesis and is a sure way to misunderstand God's truth.

Why do you think he gave the mixing prescription to us.

To avoid finding the understanding of parables?

Mixing prescription? I don't know what you mean.

2 corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

In context, this verse is easily understood:

2 Corinthians 4:14-18
14 knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.
15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day.
17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,
18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

In context, Paul is talking about the Christian's future hope of glory, their eternal, glorified existence with Christ. Unlike the physical bodies believers possess prior to death that "waste away," their inner, spiritual being is renewed daily by the Holy Spirit and is being prepared for an "eternal weight of glory." This passage, then, isn't offering an interpretive method in studying Scripture but making a simple distinction between one's temporal, physical body and one's spiritual and eternal being.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Mr.G Lee, the parables have to be understood the way Jesus intended them. We cannot force our own interpretation onto it. This is all the more true when He gives us His interpretation. If Jesus says what He meant, you or I cannot add to, or take away, anything from it.

"I can preach. . Christ is the teacher who shows us how to rightly divide the parables.

I don't think we are talking about the smartest choice as the understanding to the parable

Simply comparing the riches of this world with lost sheep ." Quote from Mr.G Lee

If you agree that Jesus is the teacher, why are you trying to change His teaching?
What is smarter than listening to Jesus?
Jesus did not compare the riches of this world with the lost sheep. I pointed out that what the shepherd did from a logical point of view was actually illogical. The shepherd didn't do the smartest thing did he? He left the 99. Anything could have happened to them during His absence. The shepherd left the 99 because the one that needed Him was lost. I don't know how to make that any more clear.

"Parable.. . . that which comes along side of another revealing the spiritual eternal gospel understand .. . . as a figure of speech not the literal understanding what the eyes see the temporal" Quote from Mr.G Lee

Here is a more detailed definition:

PAR'ABLE, n. L. parabola Gr. to throw forward or against, to compare to or against as in confero, collatum, to set together, or one thing with another. A fable or allegorical relation or representation of something real in life or nature, from which a moral is drawn for instruction such as the parable of the trees choosing a king, Judges 9 . the parable of the poor man and his lamb. 2 Samuel 12 . the parable of the ten virgins, Matthew 25

Instruction by parables has been in use from the earliest times. A large portion of our Lord's public teaching consisted of parables. He himself explains his reasons for this in his answer to the inquiry of the disciples, "Why speakest thou to them in parables?" (Matt. 13:13-15; Mark 4:11, 12; Luke 8:9, 10). He followed in so doing the rule of the divine procedures, as recorded in Matt. 13:13.

PAR'ABLE, To represent by fiction or fable.

"The you do acknowledge it is a parable" Quote from Mr.G Lee

I never wrote that it wasn't a parable.

"You would have to remember where that backsliding came .The rich father who owns ever thing gave the riches as mammon and he spend it foolishly. The same richness of the waiting Father drew him back a picture of repenting returning to his first love of the father." Quote from Mr.G Lee

Are you saying that the father was responsible for the son's behavior because the father granted the son's request? He did not have to give the younger son anything. He was a fair man and gave the younger son his portion of the inheritance. The father didn't know how the son would spend it. Riotous living probably drained the monetary resources fairly fast. We know the son was gone awhile because the father would go and watch for him. Also, the son was not returning as the man's son. The son was not coming back to seek more of the father's money. He just was hoping to be taken back as a hired hand. It was the father who ran out to greet the son and welcomed him back into the family. In fact, this was something the older son was not happy about. No sir, the father acted in good faith that his son would do well. He did not cause his son to lose all of the money.

Please read the parables again. I am trying to be respectful and answer your concerns. I hope I did.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[BB1956]

Tenchi said,
"Among the many odd "winds of doctrine" blowing about the Church today and catching up the biblically-illiterate, spiritually-immature and those who have little or no hermeneutical system is the idea that when a person's body dies, their soul returns to God as an undifferentiated "animating energy" subsumed into Him until the Final Resurrection when the dead are reconstituted as persons. In my experience, until recently, this thinking was held pretty exclusively by adherents to the Jehovah's Witnesses cult.[/QUOTE\]

I don't know where you get your information about Jehovah's Witnesses, but I haven't heard them teach that human beings have souls. They teach that human beings are souls, not that they have souls. So for you to say Jehovah's Witnesses teach that human beings have souls that return to God as animating energy. I haven't seen anywhere or heard any Jehovah's Witness believe or teach this.