God makes some vessels unto honor, some unto dishonor-- are both God's elect?

[Deborah13]

No problem.


I think that's fine, we can't all spend the time and energy to read their works. I definitely wouldn't recommend it unless you're 1) Reformed in your soteriology, or 2) really into Church History.

I would give one more reason to study Reformed doctrine, and that would be if one is going to enter into a debate with someone who is Reformed.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I would give one more reason to study Reformed doctrine, and that would be if one is going to enter into a debate with someone who is Reformed.

True, but I wouldn't put someone through reading the Bondage of the Will or Calvin's Institutes just to have a debate. Perhaps reading through some of the applicable texts and of course reading the Canons of Dort and the Westminster Confession are good for getting a cursory understanding of Reformed soteriology.

 

[Deborah13]

True, but I wouldn't put someone through reading the Bondage of the Will or Calvin's Institutes just to have a debate. Perhaps reading through some of the applicable texts and of course reading the Canons of Dort and the Westminster Confession are good for getting a cursory understanding of Reformed soteriology.

I researched it because of close friends who are Reformed and I wanted to know what they believe. This was a few yrs. ago. Then they were visiting from Mich. just this last week. She an I were visiting and she brought it up. Turns out the she was raised Reformed and spent all her school yrs. going to a Reformed private school. By the time she was in high school she had decided the I in TULIP, just wasn't true. So when tested on this subject she had written a long essay on what she believed quoting scriptures on the subject. It raised quite a ruckus, her parents were called into the school, etc. You just never know what someone truly believes, unless they tell you.

 

[jonahmano]

This is funny because that's exactly what I was thinking your doctrine does, lol.

The fundamental problem with your doctrine is that it contradicts plain scripture that tells us God wants all men to be saved, not just a few he purposely made to be saved apart from their own will to be saved, while the rest of mankind is made to perish apart from their own choice to do so because they are neither given the chance to believe nor are they even crafted with the capacity to do so.

I in no way think it's right to say we are to take something on faith and just trust God's so-called wisdom when that wisdom plainly contradicts other plain evidence in the scriptures. I'm not doing that with the scriptures anymore.

Hey man I don't have any doctrine. I told you already I can't go against scriptures. My job is to receive what is written in the Word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. As far as I'm concerned right now as I'm talking to you, I can embrace or forsake the gift of salvation.

Anyways who are you to be worried about another soul? He is the creator and we are the creation. It's better we understand what we can grasp with this foolish mind. That's more than enough for our salvation.

 

[jonahmano]

If I understand you properly, it seems as if you are saying "Doctrine is inferior to the Bible." Is that an accurate summary of what you are saying? Please correct or expand that assumption before proceeding further.

The second question I ask you is "From where do we get doctrines, and how are doctrines decided as truth?"

As religion was considered as fig leaves so are these doctrines. In each age certain set of spiritual or political leaders institute a set of beliefs connected to the Word of God known as doctrines but in the matter of salvation, The Word of God is as simple as to understand. That's why I pointed out not to complicate the simplicity of the gospel.

That's the reason I don't believe in Pre-trib or post-trib or mid-trib. We know that Jesus is coming back and it doesn't matter when He comes. The only thing is that if we are ready to receive the bridegroom.

 

[Deborah13]

Hey man I don't have any doctrine. I told you already I can't go against scriptures. My job is to receive what is written in the Word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. As far as I'm concerned right now as I'm talking to you, I can embrace or forsake the gift of salvation.

Anyways who are you to be worried about another soul? He is the creator and we are the creation. It's better we understand what we can grasp with this foolish mind. That's more than enough for our salvation.

This is just a general statement. Not that I think a Calvinist is a sinner and not saved.
But we should be concerned for other people's soul. We are to be a light to the world and share the Gospel. But here's another verse....

"Anyways who are you to be worried about another soul?"

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any among you may go astray from the truth, and any one may turn him back,
Jas 5:20 let him know that he who did turn back a sinner from the straying of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.

 

[By Grace]

As religion was considered as fig leaves so are these doctrines. In each age certain set of spiritual or political leaders institute a set of beliefs connected to the Word of God known as doctrines but in the matter of salvation, The Word of God is as simple as to understand. That's why I pointed out not to complicate the simplicity of the gospel..

Well you sorta flubbed on the first question and totally evaded the second. Therefore, I will try another way.

Is the Apostle's Creed proper doctrine?

In your estimation, how is doctrine derived?

BTW
I am not attempting to "set a trap".All I am attempting is to get an explanation of this, your post"

jonahmano said: ↑
Why are you so much concerned about doctrines? Why can't you embrace the simplicity of the gospel?

Does that make sense to you?

That's the reason I don't believe in Pre-trib or post-trib or mid-trib. We know that Jesus is coming back and it doesn't matter when He comes. The only thing is that if we are ready to receive the bridegroom

That is not germane to the OP, nor to the discussion at hand. Therefore I prefer to ignore it.

 

[jonahmano]

Well you sorta flubbed on the first question and totally evaded the second. Therefore, I will try another way.

Is the Apostle's Creed proper doctrine?

Should we believe creeds or should we believe the bible. Everything in the apostle creed is fine except the mention of catholic church. So better we believe the Word of God than creeds. FYKI when I was a catholic I didn't understand one inch of the creed but when I became born-again God opened my eyes

In your estimation, how is doctrine derived?

I already told you I don't believe in a set of doctrines. I have understood the meaning of the word "doctrine" by the dictionary. Please don't take it personal. I more simple and sticking to the Word of God than the doctrines. Doesn't matter many men of God have contradicted each other in the course of time but His Word will not change.

BTW
I am not attempting to "set a trap".All I am attempting is to get an explanation of this, your post"

Doesn't matter even if you are trying to trap me. I know I'm not as intellectual or learned as you guys. It's more like learning from me rather than getting embarrassed. I haven't joined this thread to win but to learn.


Does that make sense to you?

Thank God for the sense I have. I don't want to have more sense so that I will be doomed by complicating the simplicity of the gospel



That is not germane to the OP, nor to the discussion at hand. Therefore I prefer to ignore it.

 

[By Grace]

By Grace said: ↑ Well you sorta flubbed on the first question and totally evaded the second. Therefore, I will try another way.

Is the Apostle's Creed proper doctrine?

[quote="jonahmano, post: 920609, member: 370" Should we believe creeds or should we believe the bible. Everything in the apostle creed is fine except the mention of catholic church. So better we believe the Word of God than creeds. FYKI when I was a catholic I didn't understand one inch of the creed but when I became born-again God opened my eyes

[/QUOTE]

Are you aware that by using the lower case c in catholic, it refers to the universal church, and NOT the particular Roman church? does that make a difference to you?

By saying what you stated above, are you aware that you are also creating your own doctrine?

In your estimation, how is doctrine derived?

I already told you I don't believe in a set of doctrines. I have understood the meaning of the word "doctrine" by the dictionary. Please don't take it personal. I more simple and sticking to the Word of God than the doctrines. Doesn't matter many men of God have contradicted each other in the course of time but His Word will not change.

I understand your effort to stay clear of doctrines foreign to what the Bible teaches and I respect that. But that was not the question I asked.

I was asking how you believe the saints of old determined that "This is proper doctrine, and THAT is not.".

BTW
I am not attempting to "set a trap".All I am attempting is to get an explanation of this, your post"

Doesn't matter even if you are trying to trap me. I know I'm not as intellectual or learned as you guys. It's more like learning from me rather than getting embarrassed. I haven't joined this thread to win but to learn.

Good, so did I

Does that make sense to you?

Thank God for the sense I have. I don't want to have more sense so that I will be doomed by complicating the simplicity of the gospel

No problem there

 

[jonahmano]

Are you aware that by using the lower case c in catholic, it refers to the universal church, and NOT the particular Roman church? does that make a difference to you?

You very well understand that I was meaning catholic church.

By saying what you stated above, are you aware that you are also creating your own doctrine?

I said that I believe some parts of apostle creed which are well in the line of scriptures and not the mother mary thing. Do you want me to mean that "I believe in Mother Mary" Now come on you understand what I mean why are you pulling my leg?

I understand your effort to stay clear of doctrines foreign to what the Bible teaches and I respect that. But that was not the question I asked.

I was asking how you believe the saints of old determined that "This is proper doctrine, and THAT is not.".


Good, so did I

Whatever saints wanted to reveal us it's was from the new testament. Is that not enough? Do we also want more from outside. I respect whatever saints say but I can't accept contradictions to the scripture. Any thing in line with the scriptures is acceptable for me.


No problem there[/quote]

 

[WIP]

Friendly reminder:
Try to keep this discussion away from getting personal. Keep on the topic and not each other.

Thanks.

 

[Sparkey]

The saints of God have a God-given common goal: To work toward the unity of the faith.

Now, this being a goal also means that it has not yet been accomplished. We are living closer to the time that God has chosen to accomplish this (in us or others) than the first Christians did. How will God accomplish all that He has declared?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yo, jonahmano, why does 'predestined' have to mean 'predetermined'?

Why does something being predestined to have a predictable outcome mean it was purposely predetermined ahead of time to be that way?

 

[elijah23]

Romans 9:21 God makes some vessels unto honor, some unto dishonor-- are both God's elect?

I am a new Christian. Can I get your input? Are some people put here to cause us to have trouble in our lives?

No, no one is put here to cause us to have trouble. We do cause each other a lot of trouble, don't we?

 

[elijah23]

Romans 9:21 God makes some vessels unto honor, some unto dishonor-- are both God's elect?

I am a new Christian. Can I get your input? Are some people put here to cause us to have trouble in our lives?

Romans 9:21 says this in the Revised Standard Version, which is my favorite Bible:

Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use?

 

[By Grace]

Are you aware that by using the lower case c in catholic, it refers to the universal church, and NOT the particular Roman church? does that make a difference to you?

You very well understand that I was meaning catholic church.

No, I cannot read your mind. That is why I asked for a clarification.

By saying what you stated above, are you aware that you are also creating your own doctrine?

I said that I believe some parts of apostle creed which are well in the line of scriptures and not the mother mary thing. Do you want me to mean that "I believe in Mother Mary" Now come on you understand what I mean why are you pulling my leg?

No, I do not know what you mean by that "mother mary thing. " And I am also wondering about how you link that with the Apostle's Creed, where speaking of the birth of Jesus, she is referred to as "virgin Mary". Are you perhaps doubting the virgin birth of our Lord?

I understand your effort to stay clear of doctrines foreign to what the Bible teaches and I respect that. But that was not the question I asked.
I was asking how you believe the saints of old determined that "This is proper doctrine, and THAT is not.".

Whatever saints wanted to reveal us it's was from the new testament. Is that not enough? Do we also want more from outside. I respect whatever saints say but I can't accept contradictions to the scripture. Any thing in line with the scriptures is acceptable for me.

In order to properly respond, I ask what you consider to be a saint, and how do you believe that the revelations of the saints are passed on?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Romans 9:21 God makes some vessels unto honor, some unto dishonor-- are both God's elect?

I am a new Christian. Can I get your input? Are some people put here to cause us to have trouble in our lives?

They do cause trouble in our lives. Yhwh would rather they repent. Until they repent, and unless they repent, they are under control/sway of the prince of darkness like we all once were according to Scripture (will look up later if you can't find it).

Not just people, but demons also cause trouble, as does flesh, mankind, society, sin, temptations and so forth, all exactly as Scripture says.

REJOICE in trouble, as this works in us patience, endurance, long-suffering, and eventually peace and righteousness(sheer grace!) if we endure and rely on and trust God by faith in Jesus Christ.

well known verse : "God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him, ..."
Romans 8:28
New International Version (NIV)
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

 

[jonahmano]

No, I cannot read your mind. That is why I asked for a clarification.


No, I do not know what you mean by that "mother mary thing. " And I am also wondering about how you link that with the Apostle's Creed, where speaking of the birth of Jesus, she is referred to as "virgin Mary". Are you perhaps doubting the virgin birth of our Lord?


sorry I was quoting a manipulated one having in the end "I believe in the rosary..." and all. Sorry and that was the mother mary thing and not as you thought.

 

[Stan1953]

Romans 9:21 God makes some vessels unto honor, some unto dishonor-- are both God's elect?
I am a new Christian. Can I get your input? Are some people put here to cause us to have trouble in our lives?

I think first of all, IMO, Paul is asking a question, not making a statement, but who God chooses to fulfill His will, is based on His foreknowledge. You can ONLY be God's elect once you are saved. The elect are NOT people God chooses to be saved, they are saved that He makes His elect.
Romans 8:28-30