God operating under the two covenants, and idolatry

[ezra]

Why should God rescue any Ba'al worshippers? The idea is to keep evildoers out of the kingdom. Not save them.

was we not evil doers at one time.. while i understand what your saying but this side of Grace we can be forgiven

 

[MarkT]

was we not evil doers at one time.. while i understand what your saying but this side of Grace we can be forgiven

I was never a Ba'al worshipper. Were you? Nevertheless, the word of God says No. The LORD will not listen to them in their time of trouble. Don't even pray for them.

 

[ezra]

I was never a Ba'al worshipper. Were you? Nevertheless, the word of God says No. The LORD will not listen to them in their time of trouble. Don't even pray for them.

a Ba'al worshipper. as in in real life NO did i serve the devil in the pleasures of sin for a season? yes was that a type worship ? could be so what sin is it that will send you to hell ? rejecting Jesus which is the unpardonable sin .here is what paul wrote
1 Corinthians 6

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. what is a idolaters ? what is a idol yes in the o.t Ba'al worshipper. were doomed . i am pointing this side of the cross=grace

 

[jasonc]

a person who commits abortion and or murder can be forgiven. paul commited murder In that he chained up the Christians to be brought to Jerusalem and these were executed by Rome on the behalf of the jews. yet we read much about how Paul was saved. the blood covers that sin.

 

[ezra]

a person who commits abortion and or murder can be forgiven. paul commited murder In that he chained up the Christians to be brought to Jerusalem and these were executed by Rome on the behalf of the jews. yet we read much about how Paul was saved. the blood covers that sin.

this is my whole point the Bible says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved .. why do we put limits ON GOD

 

[MarkT]

this is my whole point the Bible says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved .. why do we put limits ON GOD

The worshippers of Ba'al did not call on the name of the LORD. They called on the name of their Ba'al. ie. the Ba'al of Pe'or, Ba'alze'bub the god of Ekron, , Molech. They had many gods.

They built altars to Ba'al. They burned their sons and daughters in the fire as burnt offerings to Ba'al.

It's like a disease. The only way to wipe out Ba'al is to slay the Ba'al worshippers and their priests and the prophets of Ba'al.

 

[ezra]

The worshippers of Ba'al did not call on the name of the LORD. They called on the name of their Ba'al. ie. the Ba'al of Pe'or, Ba'alze'bub the god of Ekron, , Molech. They had many gods.

They built altars to Ba'al. They burned their sons and daughters in the fire as burnt offerings to Ba'al.

It's like a disease. The only way to wipe out Ba'al is to slay the Ba'al worshippers and their priests and the prophets of Ba'al.

sigh ******* you pick and chose what you want to respond to let me help you out i never said the called upon the Lord . i am well aware of both cuts o.t let m refresh your memory k ? i said this side of the cross can =Grace = forgiveness. the who soever will N.T

 

[MarkT]

sigh ******* you pick and chose what you want to respond to let me help you out i never said the called upon the Lord . i am well aware of both cuts o.t let m refresh your memory k ? i said this side of the cross can =Grace = forgiveness. the who soever will N.T

The LORD said he was bringing evil upon them which they cannot escape. 'Which they cannot escape' means he will not listen to them. He will not save them. True or false.

Do you think Jesus didn't know what the LORD said?

To say Ba'al worshippers can be forgiven or they will be saved is contradicting Scripture. It's contradicting the LORD.

The LORD said, "Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Ba′al, and every mouth that has not kissed him.” 1 Kings 19:18

Paul refers to this very Scripture in Romans 11:4
Romans 11:4
But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Ba′al.”

So only a remnant of Israel will be saved. Seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Ba'al.

Romans 9:27
And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved;
Romans 11:5
So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

 

[Jim Parker]

Why should God rescue any Ba'al worshippers? The idea is to keep evildoers out of the kingdom. Not save them.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Jhn 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

 

[ezra]

The LORD said he was bringing evil upon them which they cannot escape. 'Which they cannot escape' means he will not listen to them. He will not save them. True or false.

Do you think Jesus didn't know what the LORD said?

To say Ba'al worshippers can be forgiven or they will be saved is contradicting Scripture. It's contradicting the LORD.

The LORD said, "Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Ba′al, and every mouth that has not kissed him.” 1 Kings 19:18

Paul refers to this very Scripture in Romans 11:4
Romans 11:4
But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Ba′al.”

So only a remnant of Israel will be saved. Seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Ba'al.

Romans 9:27
And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved;
Romans 11:5
So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

are you legalistic ? what part of my Post this side of the cross = GRACE = FORGIVENESS

 

[MarkT]

are you legalistic ? what part of my Post this side of the cross = GRACE = FORGIVENESS

I know it's difficult for this generation, when everything is dumbed down, but linking words with equal signs doesn't work for me.

 

[MarkT]

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Jhn 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

And yet the LORD said he would bring evil upon them which they cannot escape; "though they cry to me, I will not listen to them." Jer. 11: 11 This was the word that came to Jeremiah the prophet of the LORD concerning the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Will God save them from the coming evil? No.

28 But where are your gods
that you made for yourself?
Let them arise, if they can save you,
in your time of trouble;
for as many as your cities
are your gods, O Judah. Jer. 2:28 RSV

But not all Israel will be destroyed. The LORD said, "Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Ba′al, and every mouth that has not kissed him.” 1 Kings 19:18 RSV

Implying those who had bowed to Ba'al would not be saved.

Keep in mind Jeremiah is prophesying against the house of Judah and the house of Israel who had turned their backs on the LORD and did not do what the LORD said.

And the LORD said, "What right has my beloved in my house, when she has done vile deeds? Can vows and sacrificial flesh avert your doom? Jer. 11:15

So God's desire to save the world does not include devil worshippers. According to the will of God, branches have been broken off.

Can they be saved? Seems to me they have already been sentenced.

 

[Conqueror]

And yet the LORD said he would bring evil upon them which they cannot escape; "though they cry to me, I will not listen to them." Jer. 11: 11 This was the word that came to Jeremiah the prophet of the LORD concerning the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Will God save them from the coming evil? No.

28 But where are your gods
that you made for yourself?
Let them arise, if they can save you,
in your time of trouble;
for as many as your cities
are your gods, O Judah. Jer. 2:28 RSV

But not all Israel will be destroyed. The LORD said, "Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Ba′al, and every mouth that has not kissed him.” 1 Kings 19:18 RSV

Implying those who had bowed to Ba'al would not be saved.

Keep in mind Jeremiah is prophesying against the house of Judah and the house of Israel who had turned their backs on the LORD and did not do what the LORD said.

And the LORD said, "What right has my beloved in my house, when she has done vile deeds? Can vows and sacrificial flesh avert your doom? Jer. 11:15

So God's desire to save the world does not include devil worshippers. According to the will of God, branches have been broken off.

Can they be saved? Seems to me they have already been sentenced.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,
not imputing their trespasses to them (2 Co 5:19).

Paul was wrong, if old covenant conditions were still applicable.


.

 

[MarkT]

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,
not imputing their trespasses to them (2 Co 5:19).

Paul was wrong, if old covenant conditions were still applicable.


.

What old covenant conditions? Circumcision? Sacrifices and burnt offerings and sin offerings? I agree they have been abolished. But Jesus didn't say we should go after other gods. He said keep the commandments ie. “You shall have no other gods before me."

Anyways, Jeremiah's prophecy is concerning the house of Israel and the house of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. So when he says 'the house of' he is referring to these two tribes. Jer. 11: 9-13 God declared he would bring evil upon them which they can not escape. So this is something they, meaning Israel and Judah, cannot escape.
Jeremiah 11:17
The Lord of hosts, who planted you, has pronounced evil against you, because of the evil which the house of Israel and the house of Judah have done, provoking me to anger by burning incense to Ba′al.”

 

[Conqueror]

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,
not imputing their trespasses to them (2 Co 5:19).

.

Jeremiah 11:17
The Lord of hosts, who planted you, has pronounced evil against you, because of the evil which the house of Israel and the house of Judah have done, provoking me to anger by burning incense to Ba′al.”

The Lord doesn't pronounce evil under the New Covenant (2 Co 5:19).

At the judgement people will be condemned by the word of God or not !!!!!


.

 

[MarkT]

The Lord doesn't pronounce evil under the New Covenant (2 Co 5:19).

At the judgement people will be condemned by the word of God or not !!!!!


.

Certainly Jesus talked about hell and who will be cast into the fire. Isn't that pronouncing evil? They sure thought he was talking about them.

 

[Conqueror]

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,
not imputing their trespasses to them (2 Co 5:19).

.

The Lord doesn't pronounce evil under the New Covenant (2 Co 5:19).

At the judgement people will be condemned by the word of God or not !!!!!


.

Certainly Jesus talked about hell and who will be cast into the fire. Isn't that pronouncing evil? They sure thought he was talking about them.

A prophecy isn't cursing people with evil.



.

 

[MarkT]

A prophecy isn't cursing people with evil.



.

What prophecy? The LORD said he would destroy the men of Judah and Israel because they had gone back to devil worshipping.

Could he be talking about destroying them in the lake of fire?

Nevertheless he said he would not pity or spare or have compassion on them, that he should not destroy them. Jer. 13:14

Anyways this is about their doings and their destruction.

So what does 2Cor. 5:19 have to do with their destruction?

 

[I_love_Springtime]

What do you all think about the prophecy in the book of Revelation, where anyone who bowed down to the beast and had the number of the beast in their hand/forehead would be destroyed with fire and brimstone? And how is this similar to the ones who bowed to Baal under the old covenant?

I'll take a stab, it's a pretty straight forward one at that. Neither group wanted to turn to God, or to repent.

 

[Conqueror]

What do you all think about the prophecy in the book of Revelation, where anyone who bowed down to the beast and had the number of the beast in their hand/forehead would be destroyed with fire and brimstone? And how is this similar to the ones who bowed to Baal under the old covenant?

I'll take a stab, it's a pretty straight forward one at that. Neither group wanted to turn to God, or to repent.

He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive (PUT) a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name (Rev 13:16-17 NKJV).

85.33 δίδωμι: to put or place an object,
with the implication of some type of transfer
of location or possession - ‘to put [Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996)].

The Roman Canon was FORCED upon Christendom
and a sacerdotal authority in the 12th to19th century
dealt with those who dared to disagree.

The result is the current scenario whereby the inhabitants of the earth
were made drunk with the wine of her fornication (Rev 17:2 NKJV ).

That mark is on forehead or hand is RECEIVED
or not in the harvest (Rev 14:9).
The verb λαμβανω describes an action into the possession
or control of a receiver — in short: to take.
http://www.abarim-publications.com/DictionaryG/l/l-a-m-b-a-n-om.html#.W5cwt_YRWUk

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