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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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God the Father and Jesus the Lord:
- Thread starter shad
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #2
Here they are, page 1:
Mark 13:32 (New International Version)
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
John 3
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:19 (New International Version)
19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
John 8:28-29 (New International Version)
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 17
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
1 John 5:9 (King James Version)
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Acts 4:30 (New International Version)
30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I a returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.""
Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
Mark 13:32 (New International Version)
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
John 3
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:19 (New International Version)
19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
John 8:28-29 (New International Version)
28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 17
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
1 John 5:9 (King James Version)
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Acts 4:30 (New International Version)
30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I a returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.""
Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
- 38,271
- 185
add those verses that jesus claims what only the father has.shad said:
ie the statement in John vision that he is the first and the last.
or that he is , was , and is yet to come.
hard to claim that if one aint God.
how does only worship God the father yet recieves worship?
- Thread starter
- #5
Page 2:
Romans 1
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1
1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 8:6 (New International Version)
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (New International Version)
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[a] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
2 Corinthians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
2Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
4Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
Galatians 1
1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Ephesians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 4:5-6 (New International Version)
5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Philippians 1
1Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
2Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
1 Thessalonians 1
1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1
1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Timothy 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Timothy 2:5 (New International Version)
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
2 Timothy 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Titus 1
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Philemon 1
1Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,
2And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:
3Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 2:5-13
5It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6But there is a place where someone has testified:
"What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
7You made him a little[a] lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
8 and put everything under his feet."
In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. 12He says,
"I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises."[c] 13And again,
"I will put my trust in him."[d] And again he says,
"Here am I, and the children God has given me."[e]
James 1
1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
1 Peter 1
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Peter 1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
2 John 1
1The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
3Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
Jude 1
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
Romans 1
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1
1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 8:6 (New International Version)
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (New International Version)
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[a] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
2 Corinthians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
2Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
4Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
Galatians 1
1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Ephesians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Ephesians 4:5-6 (New International Version)
5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Philippians 1
1Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
2Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
1 Thessalonians 1
1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1
1Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Timothy 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Timothy 2:5 (New International Version)
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
2 Timothy 1
1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Titus 1
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Philemon 1
1Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,
2And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:
3Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 2:5-13
5It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6But there is a place where someone has testified:
"What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
7You made him a little[a] lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
8 and put everything under his feet."
In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. 12He says,
"I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises."[c] 13And again,
"I will put my trust in him."[d] And again he says,
"Here am I, and the children God has given me."[e]
James 1
1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
1 Peter 1
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Peter 1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
2 John 1
1The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
3Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
Jude 1
1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
- Thread starter
- #7
jasoncran said:
Jason, I am only talking about clear verses. You trinitarians always use ambiguous verses to make up your own doctrine. That's why Trinity is out of context with so many of the clear verses. There are overwhelmingly many.
Any way, I made this list for Francis and dodof10. I know I cannot communicate with you.
thanks.
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
- 38,271
- 185
not ambiguous at all shad, not all, you cherry pic.
how can the the son claim what only the father says he has or is alone?
if the father is the first and the last, then how can the son(jesus be that at the same time)
or be worshipped when the holy commandments says that thou shalt worship the lord thy god.
if jesus isnt god then to whom do we only worship?
didnt jesus say the if recieve him you recieve the father?
or this for if you have seen me, you have seen the father, yet John says no man has seen the father at any time?
no shad, you pick verses which support what you want to see, i dont.
i dont have to fully understand the trinity or these verses but i accept them as that is what they say.
do you take the genesis acoount of creation as literal?
if so why? doenst the world and science say that can be real? the earth wanst globally flooded nor were animals(predators) herbavores before the flood.
yet as much as they makes no sense to me.i believe it.
how can the the son claim what only the father says he has or is alone?
if the father is the first and the last, then how can the son(jesus be that at the same time)
or be worshipped when the holy commandments says that thou shalt worship the lord thy god.
if jesus isnt god then to whom do we only worship?
didnt jesus say the if recieve him you recieve the father?
or this for if you have seen me, you have seen the father, yet John says no man has seen the father at any time?
no shad, you pick verses which support what you want to see, i dont.
i dont have to fully understand the trinity or these verses but i accept them as that is what they say.
do you take the genesis acoount of creation as literal?
if so why? doenst the world and science say that can be real? the earth wanst globally flooded nor were animals(predators) herbavores before the flood.
yet as much as they makes no sense to me.i believe it.
- Thread starter
- #9
jasoncran said:
I picked the ones clearly talking about God and Jesus. They are over overwhelmingly many and you dont have to rely on ambiguous verses to know the identity of God and Jesus. Their identities are not mystical as trinitarians are making it out to be.
If there were only a few of them, I would not even bother to argue about it. You did not even take time to read them. So please stay out of this thread if you are not interested in reading what the thread is about.
It took me hours to gather them up. Please be considerate.
thanks.
westtexas
Member
- Jul 6, 2009
- 1,263
- 20
Shad, the above statement is what is wrong with your doctrine and your theology. You have no answers when confronted with any tough theological questions. When Jason asks about John 1:1 "and the Word was God" or John 1:14 "and the Word became flesh", your only answer is "That is not a clear verse". When confronted with the over 2000 uses of "Elohim", which is a plural form of the "Supreme God", your only answer is "That is not a clear verse". When confronted with any of the verses in Isaiah or any of the "I AM" verses your only answer is "That is not a clear verse".shad said:
You asked for this thread to be with Joe and Dadof10, so I won't say anything else, but when you are confronted with 2 serious students of the Bible, I can't wait to see how many times you say "That is not a clear verse". I'll be counting
God the Father=God the Son=God the Holy Spirit
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- #11
westtexas said:
Your comment is a cop out. Your doctrinal interpretation is out of context with so many verses I just listed up. Not one of those verses even implies what you just said.
Those verses say God the Father, and Jesus our Lord. You are twisting it around. Take a look at them. It seems like you did not even read them.
And please stay out of this thread if you are not interested in reading it.
thanks
- Apr 2, 2003
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shad,
Since you and I like the NIV:
Joh 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.'"
Joh 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Notice that Jesus is referred to as "God the One and Only."
Edited to add: "Those verses say God the Father, and Jesus our Lord. "
Are you prepared to defend your assertion that only Jesus is Lord and not the Father?
Since you and I like the NIV:
Joh 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.'"
Joh 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Notice that Jesus is referred to as "God the One and Only."
As I have just shown, your understanding of all the passages you posted are out of context with the entirety of Scripture. As I have stated before, your position must necessarily ignore or change many passages of Scripture.shad said:
Edited to add: "Those verses say God the Father, and Jesus our Lord. "
Are you prepared to defend your assertion that only Jesus is Lord and not the Father?
- Thread starter
- #15
Free said:
Of course, I am. That's why I started this thread.
Because I am not a scholar and I cannot disprove that kind of ambiguous verse. That's why I focus on the clear and plain verses. My point is that you dont have to rely on foggy verses to know the identity of God and Jesus and their relationship.
You trinitarians rely on those vague verses because the plain ones are harder to twist to mold into what you already believe.
You are ignoring too many clear and plain verses. Face those plain verses instead of foggy ones.
Mysteryman
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- Feb 16, 2010
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Here again we are dealing with translations as one's source of reason. Which btw is not the way in which to study the scriptures.
Look at the NIV and the KJV in the same verse
NIV
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
KJV
Joh 1:18 - No man hath seen God at any time ; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he (the Son) hath declared him ( The Father, which is God ) "
Notice the huge difference in translation !
If this is the way in which you come to your conclusion that Jesus is God, I actually emplore you to reconsider your method of studying the scriptures !
I understand the Word , when it tells us of blindness, when speaking spiritually.
If Jesus is God, then you have seen God, plain and simple. Which would contradict this very verse which states that no man has seen God at any time !
The only way in which to defend a false doctrine, is to totally ignore clear verses of scripture, as shad has said.
This is what is called spiritual blindness.
The Word of God states clearly, that Jesus the Christ is the Only begotten Son of God.
Son of God <<<
Not - God the Son
There is only One God, which is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ
Twisting of scripture is not honest ! In fact, it is unrighteous, and all unrighteousness is sin !
Look at the NIV and the KJV in the same verse
NIV
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
KJV
Joh 1:18 - No man hath seen God at any time ; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he (the Son) hath declared him ( The Father, which is God ) "
Notice the huge difference in translation !
If this is the way in which you come to your conclusion that Jesus is God, I actually emplore you to reconsider your method of studying the scriptures !
I understand the Word , when it tells us of blindness, when speaking spiritually.
If Jesus is God, then you have seen God, plain and simple. Which would contradict this very verse which states that no man has seen God at any time !
The only way in which to defend a false doctrine, is to totally ignore clear verses of scripture, as shad has said.
This is what is called spiritual blindness.
The Word of God states clearly, that Jesus the Christ is the Only begotten Son of God.
Son of God <<<
Not - God the Son
There is only One God, which is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ
Twisting of scripture is not honest ! In fact, it is unrighteous, and all unrighteousness is sin !
dadof10
Member
- Nov 5, 2006
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I don't have much time, but wish to touch on this quickly.
Define "clear verses". I see Jn. 20:28 as one of the clearest verses in Scripture. Thomas simply says "my lord and my God" directly to Jesus, and Jesus replies directly to Him, "You have BELIEVED because you have seen..."
Where is the ambiguity?
shad said:
Define "clear verses". I see Jn. 20:28 as one of the clearest verses in Scripture. Thomas simply says "my lord and my God" directly to Jesus, and Jesus replies directly to Him, "You have BELIEVED because you have seen..."
Where is the ambiguity?
Mysteryman
Member
- Feb 16, 2010
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jasoncran said:
Hi Jason:
If Jesus raised himself from the dead, then Jesus didn't die ! A dead person can not get up from the dead on their own. The Word is clear, that God raised his Son from the dead.
Jesus laid down his life for the sheep. And after he was raised from the dead, he "pick it up again" where he left off prior to his death. < This is what this comment in the scripture is saying ! After his life here upon this earth, and his death, and then after his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was still here upon this earth in his resurrected body for the next 40 days. His job, to do the will of the Father who sent him , was not finished , even after his death and resurrection. Jesus always did the will of his Father. When Jesus was about to die, he commended his Spirit into the hands of his Father. His Father is also his God (John 20:17), and it was God who raised him from the dead.
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
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as a former anti-trinitarian, i agree with dad of 10. one cant ignore what the whole bible says about god, so that you grasp a few verses that make sense to you.
one need to be a scholar to understand jn 1;1. or jn 20:28. just let the holy spirit show you.
shad heres one that would stump some if they never prayed or asked some on what the greek said
if any man HATETH not his mother and father he cant be my disciple.
no if you just look at that and the ten commandments or the other commandments to obey and honor one parent you would take that to mean we must hate our parents. that isnt what the greek says, it means we must love less. i didnt know greek, but since i know the ot well i took that to mean that we love the lord more then our parent. that is how one reconciles verses.
one need to be a scholar to understand jn 1;1. or jn 20:28. just let the holy spirit show you.
shad heres one that would stump some if they never prayed or asked some on what the greek said
if any man HATETH not his mother and father he cant be my disciple.
no if you just look at that and the ten commandments or the other commandments to obey and honor one parent you would take that to mean we must hate our parents. that isnt what the greek says, it means we must love less. i didnt know greek, but since i know the ot well i took that to mean that we love the lord more then our parent. that is how one reconciles verses.