God the Father and Jesus the Lord:

[Mysteryman]

as a former anti-trinitarian, i agree with dad of 10. one cant ignore what the whole bible says about god, so that you grasp a few verses that make sense to you.

one need to be a scholar to understand jn 1;1. or jn 20:28. just let the holy spirit show you.

shad heres one that would stump some if they never prayed or asked some on what the greek said

if any man HATETH not his mother and father he cant be my disciple.
no if you just look at that and the ten commandments or the other commandments to obey and honor one parent you would take that to mean we must hate our parents. that isnt what the greek says, it means we must love less. i didnt know greek, but since i know the ot well i took that to mean that we love the lord more then our parent. that is how one reconciles verses.

Hi Jason:

One who has a sound mind, will reconcile all scripture. Not just point to their pet verses that they think supports their man made doctrine.

You and I are both men, Jason. We are sons of our individual father's. You are not your father, and your father is not you. However, you came from the bosom of your father Jason. Just like the Son of God came from the bosom of his Father. You are not your father any more than Jesus is !

Jesus the Christ is the Son of God. And Jesus clearly has declared his Father to us, and Jesus has decalared to us, that his Father is our Father (speaking spiritually) and that his God is also our God.

Now anyone with a sound mind knows, that if Jesus has a God and his God is our God, then the one and only God, is not Jesus, because that would make more than one God, and that is idolatry. God told us not to have any other gods before him, and that means none !

One of the purposes of Jesus, was to declare his Father and reveal his Father and his God unto us.

The Apostle Paul writes ----- "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"

 

[Mysteryman]

mm what of the last command given in matthew to the disciples, go unto the world and make disciples and baptize them in the name of the father,the son, and the holy ghost?hmm
if theres only one why baptize like that?

Hi Jason :

If Matthew 28:19 is an infallible verse of scripture, then why didn't any of his disciples baptize this way ?

In fact, the truth is, they never baptized in this manner, as you can not find any scripture that will support this verse as it is written/translated !

 

[jasoncran]

then why are we told baptize in three different names.

the holy spirit is not the son. and neither is the father, or the son, yet the bible says theres but one God. how can that be?

what was jesus saying when he said that then, the holy spirit also can be grieved, so he cant be the father or the son, as they dont do the job of the comforter. and jesus spoke the holy spirit as "HE".

 

[jasoncran]

mm what of the last command given in matthew to the disciples, go unto the world and make disciples and baptize them in the name of the father,the son, and the holy ghost?hmm
if theres only one why baptize like that?

Hi Jason :

If Matthew 28:19 is an infallible verse of scripture, then why didn't any of his disciples baptize this way ?

In fact, the truth is, they never baptized in this manner, as you can not find any scripture that will support this verse as it is written/translated !

please, show where the orginal greek documents are falsfidied, and if so, through out the entire king james version. please.

ever heard of the statement of by christ, if you receive me you recieve the father, and theres the baptism of the holy ghost. to which you believe in that. hmmmmmm

 

[Mysteryman]

then why are we told baptize in three different names.

the holy spirit is not the son. and neither is the father, or the son, yet the bible says theres but one God. how can that be?

what was jesus saying when he said that then, the holy spirit also can be grieved, so he cant be the father or the son, as they dont do the job of the comforter. and jesus spoke the holy spirit as "HE".

Hi Jason:

One of the most difficult things to explain, is when one is talking with another who has not been taught correctly. Which is the case here.

Our bible translations are flawed. You need to accept this truth. Throughout the Word of God, God always establishes His Word - Always ! The way in which God does this, is to twice establish everything He says. This is why there is the first Adam and the second Adam. The first Adam was literal, or to say - terrestrial . The second Adam is spiritual, or to say - celestial > Ref: I Corinth. 15:40. In I Corinth. 15:47 - "The first man (Adam) is of the earth, earthy : the second man (Adam) is the Lord from heaven". God always establishes His Word - Twice. One the literal, the other the spiritual. The same with baptism, one with water, which is literal, and the other is spiritual, being baptized with the holy spirit and fire. 1. Water - literal 2. Fire = spiritual

The Holy Spirit is what God is (He). The Holy Spirit is the Father, as it was the Holy Spirit that overshadowed Mary, who gave birth to the Son of God. The Holy Spirit and the Father are one in the same.

We are not told to baptize in three different names. These are the flaws of our translations ! The disciples never baptized in three different names !

Jesus the Christ is the only begotten Son of God. Jesus has a God and his God is also our God and his Father is also our Father - John 20:17.

 

[Mysteryman]

mm what of the last command given in matthew to the disciples, go unto the world and make disciples and baptize them in the name of the father,the son, and the holy ghost?hmm
if theres only one why baptize like that?

Hi Jason :

If Matthew 28:19 is an infallible verse of scripture, then why didn't any of his disciples baptize this way ?

In fact, the truth is, they never baptized in this manner, as you can not find any scripture that will support this verse as it is written/translated !

please, show where the orginal greek documents are falsfidied, and if so, through out the entire king james version. please.

ever heard of the statement of by christ, if you receive me you recieve the father, and theres the baptism of the holy ghost. to which you believe in that. hmmmmmm

Hi Jason:

No, I will not show you where the greek documents are falsified, because the greek text are copies of copies of copies of copies and they changed over time. And then the translators changed wording whereever it pleased them to do so. You need to learn to trust God, to open up the eyes of your understanding. Don't ever ask for an explanation where man used his dirty hands/fingers to change what is written to suit themselves.

I believe that the KJV is the most accurate translation. However, it is flawed. God told us, that he wrote the epistle of Christ on our hearts, and not on stone, or on paper with ink. So why do you look there ? What do you think you will find on paper written with ink ?

Sure, we all read and quote from our bibles. But I do so with reservation. I have accepted the fact that our bibles are flawed.

We must look for what God has established within His Word. And not look for what supports an idea. Let the Word talk to us, and stop making the Word say what you want it to say.

 

[francisdesales]

I would like to list up all simple, clear verses identifying Jesus as our Lord and the Father as Jesus' God.

Fransis and dadof10;

I made this thread for you two.

Hello, Shad,

I just got here, and I see there is discussion over interpretation of Scriptures, even some talking about ignoring what is written and going on what is "written in their hearts"...

How about we do this a bit differently?

Let's discuss some of the attributes of God, based on Scriptures. What sets God apart from creation? What makes the divine, Divine?

From there, we can make a logical argument whether these attributes can be applied to the Messiah or the Son of God or the Word of God, all titles refering only to Who we call Jesus of Nazareth.

To begin with, let's look at what Jesus Himself says, His own testimony.

Jesus knows Himself to be over all creatures, men and angels.

He transcends all the prophets and kings of the Old Covenant. David regarded the Messiah, Jesus, as Lord (Mt 23:43, Mt 12:36, Lk 4:13). The angels are His servants, as they minister to Him. By merely asking, legions will come to His aid. Angels will accompany Him upon His second coming, sending them forth (HE sending them) to assemble the sinners and the just for judgment. As Son He stands above men and angels (Mt 24:36, Mt 13:32).

Jesus asserts of Himself that which in the OT is said of Jahweh, thereby making Himself equal to God.

Like God, Jesus sends out the prophets, seers and doctors of the law (Mat 23:34, Lk 11:49) and gives to them the promise of assistance (how can a man give assistance from afar?). Like God, He is Lord of the OT Law, in His own perfection of power, He completes and changes precepts of the OT, such as in Mt 5:21. He is Lord of the Sabbath. HE makes covenants with men. As Israel is the community of God, so His disciples are His community (Mat 16:18).

Jesus imposes obligations on His disciples, which none but God can impose upon men.

Jesus especially imposes belief ON HIS PERSON and of a supreme degree of love directed at Him personally, echoing the Shema. Faith in Jesus brings eternal life. What would an OT Jew say about such a claim? The demands for belief made by Jesus refer to His own person. He wishes to be the CONTENT and OBJECT of faith, such as Luke 9:26 or Mt 11:6. Jesus demands of His disciples a love that surpasses all earthly love for anything else, such as Mat 10:37. We must surrender our lives for His sake - but whoever loses their life shall preserve it. In addition, He accepts religious veneration.

Jesus is conscious of His divine power.

"All power is given to me in heaven and on earth" He uses this power in numerous miracles, some never before seen, such as curing a blind man from birth. He has the power to forgive sins, a sign that He is divine. In addition, HE gives to His disciples the power to work miracles and forgive sins in virtue of His divine power and commission. In giving up His life, He sees an adequate means of atonement for the ENTIRE human race...

He appropriates to Himself the office of Judge of the World, which, according to the OT, is something that God alone would exercise. His judgment extends even to an idle word. This judgment will be final and everlasting (Mt 25:46). The exercise of the office of Judge of the World presupposes a Being and a power above all nature, a divine power...

Jesus is conscious of being the Son of God.

No need to detail this...

{Summarization of "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma", Dr. Lugwig Ott, pp 128-132}

The testimony of Jesus to Himself is supported by His miracles, done in His OWN name, prophecies that were fulfilled, again, in His own name (rather than "thus says the Lord"), His holiness of life (being sinless) and the sublimity of His teachings, and the fact that He went to His death in vindication of His testimony - He was certain that He would rise again to prove that He was indeed, God.

Just from the testimony of Jesus, without detailing John's testimony or the rest of the NT, is quite sufficient to see that Jesus saw Himself as something that OT Jews would attribute to GOD.

The power to forgive sins, perform miracles in His own name, judge the world, demand faith in His person (similar to the Shema), knowledge of an eqaulity with God, and a knowledge of His relationship to the Father speaks volumes on Who Jesus is.

Regards

 

[Free]

Are you prepared to defend your assertion that only Jesus is Lord and not the Father?

Of course, I am. That's why I started this thread.

Then please tell me who is being referred to by 'Lord' in the following passages:

Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
Mat 1:22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
Mat 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us).
Mat 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,

Mat 21:9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, "Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!"

Mat 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

Mat 23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered him, "It is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.'"

Luk 4:12 And Jesus answered him, "It is said, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Luk 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.

2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Heb 1:10 And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;

2Pe 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Rev 4:11 "Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created."

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever."

All passages are from the ESV. I could have posted many more but this should suffice.

 

[Mysteryman]

Are you prepared to defend your assertion that only Jesus is Lord and not the Father?

Of course, I am. That's why I started this thread.

Then please tell me who is being referred to by 'Lord' in the following passages:

Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
Mat 1:22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
Mat 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us).
Mat 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,

Mat 21:9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, "Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!"

Mat 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

Mat 23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered him, "It is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.'"

Luk 4:12 And Jesus answered him, "It is said, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Luk 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.

2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Heb 1:10 And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;

2Pe 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Rev 4:11 "Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created."

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever."

All passages are from the ESV. I could have posted many more but this should suffice.

Hi Free:

All of these verses substanciate what shad has been already saying.

Where people become confused, is when they misuse certain words because of a lack of understanding. Which is clearly within your interpretation.

It starts with the word - "Lord"

Lord - simply means, one who is over , or who has authority over, or is in charge of, or is the overseer of.

Even Sarah called Abraham Lord. Then there is the Lord of the vineyard.

God is over all, he is Lord of all, because he is the head (Lord) of Christ is God - I Corinth. 11:3.

The reason we as Christians call Jesus Christ our Lord, is because he is the - head (Lord) of the body of Christ, in a marriage.

This is why King David made this comment, which we can read in Acts 2:34 - "The Lord (God) said unto my Lord (Christ - saviour - messiah ), Sit thou on my right hand"

Christ sits on the right hand of power. Christ also sits at the right hand of God. Christ sits also at the right hand of his Father.

 

[shad]

This is why King David made this comment, which we can read in Acts 2:34 - "The Lord (God) said unto my Lord (Christ - saviour - messiah ), Sit thou on my right hand"

This is a good example of mystic verses. They did not know Jesus in OT clearly. Jesus made distinction between God the Father and Jesus the Christ in the New Testament. That's why Jesus and His disciples made it clear abundantly. Not just in a few verses.

I would like to make my point clear:

This thread is about mystic verses which is trinitarians interpretations are based on, versus clear verses which we non-trins are based on which is abundant. That's why I listed them up how abundantly they are stressed by Jesus and His disciples.

I will not go into other directions. Please stay focused on my topic and point. So I will not reply to any posts that going to other directions.

Thank you.

 

[Free]

Hi Free:

All of these verses substanciate what shad has been already saying.

No, they do not. He clearly thinks that only Jesus is Lord and the Father is God. I just gave many examples where God is referred to as 'Lord.' Thus, his argument his proved false.

Where people become confused, is when they misuse certain words because of a lack of understanding. Which is clearly within your interpretation.

It starts with the word - "Lord"

Lord - simply means, one who is over , or who has authority over, or is in charge of, or is the overseer of.

And this is simply false. Even a cursory study will show this to be the case.

God is over all, he is Lord of all, because he is the head (Lord) of Christ is God - I Corinth. 11:3.

But that is not the argument that shad is making.

 

[Free]

This is why King David made this comment, which we can read in Acts 2:34 - "The Lord (God) said unto my Lord (Christ - saviour - messiah ), Sit thou on my right hand"

This is a good example of mystic verses. They did not know Jesus in OT clearly. Jesus made distinction between God the Father and Jesus the Christ in the New Testament. That's why Jesus and His disciples made it clear abundantly. Not just in a few verses.

I would like to make my point clear:

This thread is about mystic verses which is trinitarians interpretations are based on, versus clear verses which we non-trins are based on which is abundant. That's why I listed them up how abundantly they are stressed by Jesus and His disciples.

I will not go into other directions. Please stay focused on my topic and point. So I will not reply to any posts that going to other directions.

Thank you.

And once again you have relied on someone else's post instead of actually addressing my post directly. You do this far too much. Please respond to the verses I posted and how you can still maintain that Jesus is Lord and the Father is not.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Free:

All of these verses substanciate what shad has been already saying.

No, they do not. He clearly thinks that only Jesus is Lord and the Father is God. I just gave many examples where God is referred to as 'Lord.' Thus, his argument his proved false.

Where people become confused, is when they misuse certain words because of a lack of understanding. Which is clearly within your interpretation.

It starts with the word - "Lord"

Lord - simply means, one who is over , or who has authority over, or is in charge of, or is the overseer of.

And this is simply false. Even a cursory study will show this to be the case.

God is over all, he is Lord of all, because he is the head (Lord) of Christ is God - I Corinth. 11:3.

But that is not the argument that shad is making.

Hi Free :

No, what you are suggesting is false. I think you are mistaken. Why not ask shad, and not me !

You posted verses that pertain the the word "Lord", and I corrected you in line with this opening post. God is Lord over all. Jesus Christ is Lord of the body of Christ.

If shad is saying that God is not Lord, which I seriously doubt, then take up that issue with him.

Maybe you are just misunderstanding shad in some way. I can't be sure, but at the very least it appears that way.

 

[Free]

Hi Free:

All of these verses substanciate what shad has been already saying.

No, they do not. He clearly thinks that only Jesus is Lord and the Father is God. I just gave many examples where God is referred to as 'Lord.' Thus, his argument his proved false.

Where people become confused, is when they misuse certain words because of a lack of understanding. Which is clearly within your interpretation.

It starts with the word - "Lord"

Lord - simply means, one who is over , or who has authority over, or is in charge of, or is the overseer of.

And this is simply false. Even a cursory study will show this to be the case.

God is over all, he is Lord of all, because he is the head (Lord) of Christ is God - I Corinth. 11:3.

But that is not the argument that shad is making.

Hi Free :

No, what you are suggesting is false. I think you are mistaken. Why not ask shad, and not me !

You posted verses that pertain the the word "Lord", and I corrected you in line with this opening post. God is Lord over all. Jesus Christ is Lord of the body of Christ.

If shad is saying that God is not Lord, which I seriously doubt, then take up that issue with him.

Maybe you are just misunderstanding shad in some way. I can't be sure, but at the very least it appears that way.

It would seem MM that you are not even reading what is being written:

Are you prepared to defend your assertion that only Jesus is Lord and not the Father?

Of course, I am. That's why I started this thread.

I was trying to take it up with him but you jumped in without having read the conversation.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Free:

All of these verses substanciate what shad has been already saying.

No, they do not. He clearly thinks that only Jesus is Lord and the Father is God. I just gave many examples where God is referred to as 'Lord.' Thus, his argument his proved false.

Where people become confused, is when they misuse certain words because of a lack of understanding. Which is clearly within your interpretation.

It starts with the word - "Lord"

Lord - simply means, one who is over , or who has authority over, or is in charge of, or is the overseer of.

And this is simply false. Even a cursory study will show this to be the case.

God is over all, he is Lord of all, because he is the head (Lord) of Christ is God - I Corinth. 11:3.

But that is not the argument that shad is making.

Hi Free :

No, what you are suggesting is false. I think you are mistaken. Why not ask shad, and not me !

You posted verses that pertain the the word "Lord", and I corrected you in line with this opening post. God is Lord over all. Jesus Christ is Lord of the body of Christ.

If shad is saying that God is not Lord, which I seriously doubt, then take up that issue with him.

Maybe you are just misunderstanding shad in some way. I can't be sure, but at the very least it appears that way.

It would seem MM that you are not even reading what is being written:

Are you prepared to defend your assertion that only Jesus is Lord and not the Father?

Of course, I am. That's why I started this thread.

I was trying to take it up with him but you jumped in without having read the conversation.[/quote]
------------------------------------
Hi Free:

I understand why you posted what you did. I fully believe that shad didn't mean exactly what you think he meant. I think he was thinking in line with defending his opening post. I believe he misread you. Then you misread him, in thinking that he might believe that in some way God is not Lord over all.

Take this up with him !

I merely was pointing out, that the word "Lord" has a specific meaning. And it is used in different ways throughout scripture. This is why I quoted Acts 2:34 where King David referenced two Lord's.

Nonetheless, the word "Lord" means - over, in its simpliest terms.

 

[watchman F]

The main problem with those that deny the deity of Christ is that they cling to the verses they approve of and ignore the verses they don't. This is no way to come to the truth. It is what all false teachers and cults do.

 

[Free]

Hi Free:

I understand why you posted what you did. I fully believe that shad didn't mean exactly what you think he meant. I think he was thinking in line with defending his opening post. I believe he misread you. Then you misread him, in thinking that he might believe that in some way God is not Lord over all.

Take this up with him !

I merely was pointing out, that the word "Lord" has a specific meaning. And it is used in different ways throughout scripture. This is why I quoted Acts 2:34 where King David referenced two Lord's.

Nonetheless, the word "Lord" means - over, in its simpliest terms.

Wow MM! Are you reading anything at all? The OP states nothing about God being Lord over all and Jesus being Lord only of the body of Christ. You are making assumptions about what shad is saying.

I have tried taking it up with him but in accordance with his usual manner, he has completely failed to address my posts and relied on you, for whatever reason. If you are not going to read what is posted, then please stay out of someone else's conversation.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Free:

I understand why you posted what you did. I fully believe that shad didn't mean exactly what you think he meant. I think he was thinking in line with defending his opening post. I believe he misread you. Then you misread him, in thinking that he might believe that in some way God is not Lord over all.

Take this up with him !

I merely was pointing out, that the word "Lord" has a specific meaning. And it is used in different ways throughout scripture. This is why I quoted Acts 2:34 where King David referenced two Lord's.

Nonetheless, the word "Lord" means - over, in its simpliest terms.

Wow MM! Are you reading anything at all? The OP states nothing about God being Lord over all and Jesus being Lord only of the body of Christ. You are making assumptions about what shad is saying.

I have tried taking it up with him but in accordance with his usual manner, he has completely failed to address my posts and relied on you, for whatever reason. If you are not going to read what is posted, then please stay out of someone else's conversation.

Hi Free :

Please, either take it up with shad, or let it lie there like a fallen tree in the forest. And what is wrong with another poster accepting my comments ? It just means that in some way I was helpful, don't you agree ?

 

[shad]

Then please tell me who is being referred to by 'Lord' in the following passages:

Rev 4:11 "Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created."

Ok, I know this is talking about God the Father clearly. My explanation was not adequate but I also said that in OT they did not know about Jesus clearly and Jesus and His disciples made it clear abundantly in the New Testament. Please dont nitpick over my incomplete explanation.

God is also called LORD because He is the LORD of everything and every creation including Jesus. Jesus is our Lord because God put Him in charge of us His servants.

PS, I just took one of your verses, so please dont come after me over trivial things. I ask you to speak like an adult.

 

[shad]

Free,

MM is adding to my incomplete explanation. I hope you read his posts carefully too. I always take advantage of other like-minded servants. We are supposed to carry each other's burdens for godly cause.