God's Eternal Law and The Law of Moses

[GodsGrace]

I too believe all need to follow the 10 commands of God as they are part of the 613 laws, but not all 613 laws are for the Gentiles, but only for the Jews as even some of those need not be followed any more like those of the temple sacrifices for that is what Christ came to fulfill in Himself. All I know about the Noahic was that God only gave seven commands to Noah and when He gave Moses the commands God had to have added three more to the seven, but yet all ten are apart of the 613 and not a separate list

When it comes to the sabbath day God sanctified it only as a day of rest from all our work during the week. It has nothing to do with Temple services or us going to Church on Sunday as that all came about by man, especially Sunday worship. Who is to say that Saturday is the seven day as God never named the days of the week nor did he give names to the months. We know that Gods days are not the length of mans 24 hour day as Gods timing is different than ours.

FHG
I agree with paragraph 1. This has also been my point.
The only law we are to follow is the decalogue. This is moral law and God has declared the moral law and nothing can abolish it.

As to paragraph 2. Yes, the Sabbath is a day of rest.
It is also Saturday.
Sunday is the 1st day of the week.
John 20:1
Jesus' body was taken down from the cross on the Sabbath.
Which began on Friday at sundown.
John 19:31
So the first day of the week, according to John, would be Sunday.

Which is why we changed our "holy day of observation".
But the 10 Commandments state that we are to keep holy the Sabbath...
Difference topic...

 

[GodsGrace]

Question, Did the judges appointed over Israel have authority to make or add Jewish law ?

Hi brujaq

I hope someone answers this besides me.
I say the answer is No.
Judges were military leaders and upheld the Law.
We should remember that Moses was considered a judge
but the period of "Judges" began with Joshua entering into the Promised Land.
(Canaan)

 

[for_his_glory]

Question, Did the judges appointed over Israel have authority to make or add Jewish law ?

Moses incorporated tithing into the law as he felt it was necessary, Leviticus 27:30-33. I'm not sure about the judges as I could only assume they would abide by the letter of the judicial laws found in the 613 mitzvot (commandments).

I did find this about the pharisees that explains a lot about the laws as what seems to be added to it.

http://www.pursuegod.org/rules-pharisees/

The Pharisees were are group of very zealous Jewish leaders who took their faith very seriously. They believed that the way they would please God and make it to Heaven was by meticulously following a long list of religious rules and regulations. Here’s a breakdown:

The Mosaic Law
The foundation of the Pharisaical rules was the Mosaic Law – the law that God gave through Moses to the Jewish people of the Old Testament. The most famous part of the Mosaic Law is the 10 Commandments, but these are actually just 10 of a total of 613 commandments given to the OT people.

The Midrash
While following 613 commandments would be hard enough, over time Jewish leaders began to slowly add to these laws in the Midrash. This additional teaching is basically an ongoing compilation of sermons and sayings by Jewish Rabbis meant to interpret the original Mosaic Law. The original intent of these additions was to clarify the law, but it ended up adding many layers of complicated regulations. This Midrash was already lengthy in Jesus’ day and continues to grow to this day. So for the Pharisees, they not only tried to follow the 613 commandments of the Mosaic Law, but the literally thousands of new commandments that were created to clarify the original 613 commandments.

For example, in the Mosaic Law, one of the commandments is to keep the Sabbath holy, which means that Jews were not supposed to work on Saturdays. But to clarify this, the Jewish scholars created 39 separate categories of what “work” means, and within those 39 categories there are many sub-categories. So to follow the rule of not working on the Sabbath, there are literally thousands of sub-rules to follow, including how many steps you can take, and how many letters you can write on the Sabbath.

The Problem of the Pharisees
While most average Jews in Jesus day, and still today, didn’t even attempt to follow all of these additions to the original Law, the Pharisees did. They prided themselves on following not just the letter of the Mosaic Law, but even the letter of the man-made rules designed to clarify the Law. Most notably, the Pharisees sought to abide by the external laws that distinguished the Jewish people from all of the other nations – the laws that made them outwardly distinct. These included laws about what to eat, what to wear, circumcision, how to pray out loud, etc. Jesus’ critique of the Pharisees was that they were legalistic – only concerned with the external appearance of keeping the Law rather than the inward spirit of the Law.

Matthew 23:27-28 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs—beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people’s bones and all sorts of impurity. Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness.

 

[for_his_glory]

FHG
I agree with paragraph 1. This has also been my point.
The only law we are to follow is the decalogue. This is moral law and God has declared the moral law and nothing can abolish it.

As to paragraph 2. Yes, the Sabbath is a day of rest.
It is also Saturday.
Sunday is the 1st day of the week.
John 20:1
Jesus' body was taken down from the cross on the Sabbath.
Which began on Friday at sundown.
John 19:31
So the first day of the week, according to John, would be Sunday.

Which is why we changed our "holy day of observation".
But the 10 Commandments state that we are to keep holy the Sabbath...
Difference topic...

Sunday is a whole separate topic, but the ToS will not allow that discussion. In Jewish tradition of numbering days, weeks and months the sabbath would be on a Saturday, but none were permitted to come out of their house that day as it was a day of rest, Exodus 16:29. Many call the sabbath a day to worship and praise God, but it is man that added that to the law as Exodus 16:29, 30; Leviticus 23: 3 and Deuteronomy 5:12-14 all call it a day of rest only.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sunday is a whole separate topic, but the ToS will not allow that discussion. In Jewish tradition of numbering days, weeks and months the sabbath would be on a Saturday, but none were permitted to come out of their house that day as it was a day of rest, Exodus 16:29. Many call the sabbath a day to worship and praise God, but it is man that added that to the law as Exodus 16:29, 30; Leviticus 23: 3 and Deuteronomy 5:12-14 all call it a day of rest only.

Yes, man did add a lot, as your link in post no.123 also states.
I do believe that we could discuss the Sabbath on the new forum called Hot Topics.
Personally, I believe every day is the Sabbath and the Lord's Day. But I do know many Christians who keep the Sabbath (Saturday) because they believe it's one of the 10 commandments.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, man did add a lot, as your link in post no.123 also states.
I do believe that we could discuss the Sabbath on the new forum called Hot Topics.
Personally, I believe every day is the Sabbath and the Lord's Day. But I do know many Christians who keep the Sabbath (Saturday) because they believe it's one of the 10 commandments.

Considering how Sunday worship came to be not sure if we are allowed to expose other religions so I will ask as it is a very hot and can be a very heated topic that brings with it a lot arguing.

 

[JLB]

there was no Holy Spirit living inside the heart of man

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-12

• the Spirit of Christ who was in them

JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Again

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Does having eternal life have to do with the plan of salvation ?

I think it does.


JLB

Again? And again, and again, and again. Repeating falsehood does not change what is the righteous truth of God for which Jesus died on the cross to write upon this world for all time. We are saved by grace through faith. No act of our own.

Eternal Salvation. Eternal Life. If it wasn't forever God would have said something else.

 

[for_his_glory]

Papyrus_dust
The only act on our part is the act of our heart to only believe in who Jesus said He is. Gods grace brings us to His salvation through that of the finished works of Christ on the cross that through Gods grace salvation in us is made through Christ that we will have eternal life with the Father.

 

[JLB]

Again? And again, and again, and again. Repeating falsehood does not change what is the righteous truth of God for which Jesus died on the cross to write upon this world for all time. We are saved by grace through faith. No act of our own.

Eternal Salvation. Eternal Life. If it wasn't forever God would have said something else.

Here is the righteous truth.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

" knowing Him" is the biblical definition of eternal life.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

John is teaching us that Christians, who live their lives in sin, claiming they know Him, are liars.

John reiterates this in Revelation, as he pens the words of the Lord Jesus:

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving,abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Why would a Christian think they could practice lying so much, as to be considered a liar, and never repent or confess their sin to be forgiven and cleansed of this unrighteousness?

Let's be those who practice and teach the truth.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Eternal Salvation. Eternal Life. If it wasn't forever God would have said something else.

Here is the biblical definition of those who will receive eternal life.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


Did you know, we will be Judged according to our deeds?

• God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Here is the biblical definition of those who will receive eternal life.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


Did you know, we will be Judged according to our deeds?

• God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

JLB

Yes, I do. Because being indwelt with the God's holy spirit we are led that our fruits should reflect the truth that lives within us.
We will not be judged for our sins and possibly cast into Hell. That is not what happens to those redeemed of their sins and who lived on earth in Christ.
Eternal salvation and eternal life are inseparable for those in Christ.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Luke 10:25 Context

22All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. 23And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: 24For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. 25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

 

[JLB]

Yes, I do. Because being indwelt with the God's holy spirit we are led that our fruits should reflect the truth that lives within us

Yes they should, however if they don't then the next verse will apply to us.

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:8

Later in this letter to the Church at Rome, Paul warns them:

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

Same thing to the Galatians:

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption
• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Jesus said it this way-

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


JLB

 

[JLB]

We will not be judged for our sins and possibly cast into Hell. That is not what happens to those redeemed of their sins and who lived on earth in Christ.
Eternal salvation and eternal life are inseparable for those in Christ.

Those who are in Christ, who produce no fruit, are eventually removed from Him by the Father.


I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:1-2

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

JLB

 

[JLB]

27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Do this and you shall live.

If we see a brother who has no food, and we turn our back to him, when we have the ability to help him...

Is that love or hate?

"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; Matthew 25:41-42

• for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;

JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I said they weren't written.

The Hebrew nation had been In a land very much like Sodom aND had to be reminded,abd incest was made a sin.

If you want presume that cirmcusion a sign to abraham was forgotten why waa Moses and aaron,and that generation circumcised?

Did I say circumcision was forgotten?
It was the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant.
I think you're talking about how it is not longer necessary...

 

[jasonc]

Did I say circumcision was forgotten?
It was the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant.
I think you're talking about how it is not longer necessary...

The context I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfI'll aa said to aND understood by the first audience is where you have the problem. They would know what he meant.the idea of the torah being a teacher and guide isn't new as they knew that then just went overboard with legalism. Circumcision was said to be both physical and spiritual by moses.could it be that now the law is fulfilled in Jesus tgay much of the feasts are in fact done by our belief in Him?

Ie peshac? The redeemed, sukkhot, the provision in the wilderness,yom kippur and rosh hoShanna, the atonement forever.

Chanukah and purim do also have a pointing to the cross as well.

 

[GodsGrace]

The context I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfI'll aa said to aND understood by the first audience is where you have the problem. They would know what he meant.the idea of the torah being a teacher and guide isn't new as they knew that then just went overboard with legalism. Circumcision was said to be both physical and spiritual by moses.could it be that now the law is fulfilled in Jesus tgay much of the feasts are in fact done by our belief in Him?

Ie peshac? The redeemed, sukkhot, the provision in the wilderness,yom kippur and rosh hoShanna, the atonement forever.

Chanukah and purim do also have a pointing to the cross as well.

This is way off topic Jason.
But if one of the commandments says to make holy the Sabbath,
How could we then change it to Sunday?
I don't believe I'm sinning and one could worship whatever day they want to...
I'm just saying that I DO understand their point.

As for circumcision, our heart is circumcised now. No need to become jewish first and then Christian. This is in the N.T.
Galatians 3:28
Galatians 5:5-6
Acts 15:5...

 

[jasonc]

This is way off topic Jason.
But if one of the commandments says to make holy the Sabbath,
How could we then change it to Sunday?
I don't believe I'm sinning and one could worship whatever day they want to...
I'm just saying that I DO understand their point.

As for circumcision, our heart is circumcised now. No need to become jewish first and then Christian. This is in the N.T.
Galatians 3:28
Galatians 5:5-6
Acts 15:5...

The shabbat wasn't changed nor is there a command listed in the bible to attend church on Sunday.