God's Eternal Law and The Law of Moses

[jasonc]

Jesus fulfilled the law meaning thar certain commands are filled spiritually.

No jew in Jesus ,as said to obey the pharisees for they sit I'm Moses seat,would be told to slay an amorite.those were wiped out before that time

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes ma'am.

However, the law of Moses was much more than the 10 Commandments.

Remember Abraham and obeyed the Lord's commandments, 430 years before Moses.

Cain was punished for murdering Able.

God set forth a day of rest on the 7th.

These commandments were around long before Moses, and were the Lord's commandments before the law was added, and remain so after the law of Moses became obsolete and taken out of the way, having been nailed to the cross.


JLB

This is how I used to explain it:

The Law of God existed from the beginning of time. God IS Law, He is holiness, He is moral.

When Joseph became added to the family of the Pharaoh in Egypt he and his family and some generations to come were accepted by the new Pharaohs. Then they became slaves for about 400 years.

When they were freed, they no longer knew about their relationship with God. They no longer knew how to live for the God that had revealed Himself to the Hebrews and Israelites becasue their main concern was just surviving from day to day.

So the 10 Commandments became necessary to teach them what God wanted from them and how to live a civil life. Of course, it also taught them that they could not keep the Law, the 10 commandments, and were sinners in need of God and in need of forgiveness.

The law being nailed to the cross means that we are no longer JUDGED by the Law, but we are judged by our belief and faith in Jesus who is our propitiation.

This belief makes it possible to follow Him - The New Covenant is different because it makes following of the law possible. Before there was no possibility of following the law because there was no power from the Holy Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

The torah includes leviticus, then also exodus ,Genesis and also numbers aND Deuteronomy .

If only it was the ten ,then Not a sin it's not to commit Sodomy,aND also incest, aND other things listed in leviticus 20.

Marriage isn't defined by the 10 but is first shown by examples in Genesis. It's defined by the creation account then later the patriarchs had more then wife abd weren't judged.that sets precident.Moses under the torah gave instructions as told By God. Hey tell them this.

Dud God change on sodomy? It's not on the tablets, nor was incest! Surely you aren't thinking that out.

The first audience knew the old stories and of adultery,they knew of sodomy abd it's a reminder but God warned lot somehow as He knew that sex with men was wrong! Joseph knew adultery was wrong. It's written ,yet they knew.

The torah a set of instructions to isreal is to guide them into holiness.

It's more then just 10 other wise I could marry milk subs abd God would be ok so long as I don't commit adultery!

I'm not speaking about the Torah.
I'm speaking about the Mosaic Covenant.
I know the Torah had 613 regulations.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey wondering, I fear that you are filtering what you read in the Bible through the paradigm of this world. What we "as humans" would look around and say "that's not fair." But the Kingdom of God does not operate based on our human thoughts and emotions. His ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. What about when he told king Saul to destroy that People group, (Can't think of their name) but everyone, man, woman, child even all the beasts of the field. You now have to not believe that part of the Bible. What about Sodom and Gomorrah, now you have to not believe that. What about Korah and the Rebellion where God opened up the Ground and swallowed them alive into Hell. "nope, my God wouldn't do that".

This is not how I see it Boaz.
I don't filter.
It's not what "we humans" believe. It's what theologians have been able to glean from the Old Testament. It's theology because it's the study of God. This cannot be gained from only the reading of the Bible. Much comes into play.

The people of the Promised land had to be killed in order for the Israelites to gain control of that land. Look what happened in modern day Israel. They allowed the Palestinians to stay because of pressure from England and it's a mess. They all should have been sent out of Israel.

Sodom and Gomorrah is like the days of Noah.
And like the days to come.
We're rapidly approaching the end because of man wanting to become as God.

 

[GodsGrace]

So ,why isn't it removed? No other ,not even the rcc says that.

Why isn't what removed?
What does the RCC have to do with this?
If you mean Leviticus 21:9,
we're not allowed to remove anything from scripture or add to it.
But we could determine if it fits into the teachings of God.
If it does not, then men had something to do with it.
Do you realize how many persons the O.T. turns away from believing in Jesus because of the things it says? Perhaps it's good to know of the character of God.
Is an all-good God able to say some of the things in these early books?
Is there no conflict?
And the solution?

 

[jasonc]

I'm not speaking about the Torah.
I'm speaking about the Mosaic Covenant.
I know the Torah had 613 regulations.

So you are jew?

 

[jasonc]

Why isn't what removed?
What does the RCC have to do with this?
If you mean Leviticus 21:9,
we're not allowed to remove anything from scripture or add to it.
But we could determine if it fits into the teachings of God.
If it does not, then men had something to do with it.
Do you realize how many persons the O.T. turns away from believing in Jesus because of the things it says? Perhaps it's good to know of the character of God.
Is an all-good God able to say some of the things in these early books?
Is there no conflict?
And the solution?

So cherry pick versus that aren't controversial IE Jesus dying on the cross and is a innocent man dying for our sins why not remove that.or how the Angel slew the first born babies of egyptian houses that didn't pit the blood on the door posts.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I'm not speaking about the Torah.
I'm speaking about the Mosaic Covenant.
I know the Torah had 613 regulations.

They are the same thing.
It is also called the Pentateuch.

 

[GodsGrace]

Where does it say she was burned to death?
Stop reading words into what you want it to say.

Read your notes in the NIV regarding Genesis 38:24
Study it.

As to Leviticus 21:9, take your pick...

New International Version
"'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

New Living Translation
"If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father's holiness, and she must be burned to death.

English Standard Version
And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

New American Standard Bible
'Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

King James Bible
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If a priest's daughter defiles herself by promiscuity, she defiles her father; she must be burned up."

International Standard Version
"Now if the daughter of any priest defiles herself by being a prostitute, she defiles her father. She is to be incinerated.

NET Bible
If a daughter of a priest profanes herself by engaging in prostitution, she is profaning her father. She must be burned to death.

New Heart English Bible
"'The daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by playing the prostitute, she profanes her father: she shall be burned with fire.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
When a priest's daughter dishonors herself by becoming a prostitute, she dishonors her father. She must be burned.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

New American Standard 1977
‘Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And the daughter of the man who is a priest, if she begins to fornicate, she profanes her father; she shall be burnt with fire.

King James 2000 Bible
And the daughter of any priest, if she defiles herself by playing the harlot, she defiles her father: she shall be burned with fire.

American King James Version
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profanes her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

American Standard Version
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Douay-Rheims Bible
If the daughter of a priest be taken in whoredom, and dishonour the name of her father, she shall be burnt with fire.

Darby Bible Translation
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burned with fire.

English Revised Version
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Webster's Bible Translation
And the daughter of any priest, if she shall profane herself by lewdness, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

World English Bible
"'The daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by playing the prostitute, she profanes her father: she shall be burned with fire.

Young's Literal Translation
'And a daughter of any priest when she polluteth herself by going a-whoring -- her father she is polluting; with fire she is burnt.

 

[jasonc]

This is how I used to explain it:

The Law of God existed from the beginning of time. God IS Law, He is holiness, He is moral.

When Joseph became added to the family of the Pharaoh in Egypt he and his family and some generations to come were accepted by the new Pharaohs. Then they became slaves for about 400 years.

When they were freed, they no longer knew about their relationship with God. They no longer knew how to live for the God that had revealed Himself to the Hebrews and Israelites becasue their main concern was just surviving from day to day.

So the 10 Commandments became necessary to teach them what God wanted from them and how to live a civil life. Of course, it also taught them that they could not keep the Law, the 10 commandments, and were sinners in need of God and in need of forgiveness.

The law being nailed to the cross means that we are no longer JUDGED by the Law, but we are judged by our belief and faith in Jesus who is our propitiation.

This belief makes it possible to follow Him - The New Covenant is different because it makes following of the law possible. Before there was no possibility of following the law because there was no power from the Holy Spirit.

The ten dont include Sodomy, aND incest .which I'm Josephs day was around.he ruled egypt with that.notice he didn't have egypt repent ,or tell Pharoah he wasn't God.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Read your notes in the NIV regarding Genesis 38:24
Study it.

As to Leviticus 21:9, take your pick...

New International Version
"'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.

New Living Translation
"If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father's holiness, and she must be burned to death.

English Standard Version
And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

New American Standard Bible
'Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

King James Bible
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If a priest's daughter defiles herself by promiscuity, she defiles her father; she must be burned up."

International Standard Version
"Now if the daughter of any priest defiles herself by being a prostitute, she defiles her father. She is to be incinerated.

NET Bible
If a daughter of a priest profanes herself by engaging in prostitution, she is profaning her father. She must be burned to death.

New Heart English Bible
"'The daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by playing the prostitute, she profanes her father: she shall be burned with fire.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
When a priest's daughter dishonors herself by becoming a prostitute, she dishonors her father. She must be burned.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

New American Standard 1977
‘Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And the daughter of the man who is a priest, if she begins to fornicate, she profanes her father; she shall be burnt with fire.

King James 2000 Bible
And the daughter of any priest, if she defiles herself by playing the harlot, she defiles her father: she shall be burned with fire.

American King James Version
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profanes her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

American Standard Version
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Douay-Rheims Bible
If the daughter of a priest be taken in whoredom, and dishonour the name of her father, she shall be burnt with fire.

Darby Bible Translation
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burned with fire.

English Revised Version
And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the harlot, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Webster's Bible Translation
And the daughter of any priest, if she shall profane herself by lewdness, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

World English Bible
"'The daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by playing the prostitute, she profanes her father: she shall be burned with fire.

Young's Literal Translation
'And a daughter of any priest when she polluteth herself by going a-whoring -- her father she is polluting; with fire she is burnt.

Do we have an example in the Bible where this actually took place?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

well, I leave all the needless arguing with you, I'm going to church.
bye

 

[GodsGrace]

The ten dont include Sodomy, aND incest .which I'm Josephs day was around.he ruled egypt with that.notice he didn't have egypt repent ,or tell Pharoah he wasn't God.

So why was God so mad at Sodom and Gemmorah?(if the laws "weren't around")

 

[GodsGrace]

Do we have an example in the Bible where this actually took place?

Oh. You believe God.
But now you need an example.
Interesting.
So if God says something, but there is no example, it's not worthy?
The examples are all those that have been burned to death from the beginning.

 

[GodsGrace]

well, I leave all the needless arguing with you, I'm going to church.
bye

How is attempting to understand the O.T. a needless argument?
Yes. Let's drop this and not understand the O.T. That's much better...

 

[jasonc]

So why was God so mad at Sodom and Gemmorah?(if the laws "weren't around")

I said they weren't written.

The Hebrew nation had been In a land very much like Sodom aND had to be reminded,abd incest was made a sin.

If you want presume that cirmcusion a sign to abraham was forgotten why waa Moses and aaron,and that generation circumcised?

 

[JLB]

So the 10 Commandments became necessary to teach them what God wanted from them and how to live a civil life. Of course, it also taught them that they could not keep the Law,

We can keep His commandments, if we hear them from Him directly, [led by the Spirit] the way the Lord intended Adam to learn directly from Him, rather than the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

When we walk with Him, and hear His voice it imparts faith and life into us.

4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5

• Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Because Abraham, obeyed this command, he was able to obey all His commands.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1

• walk before Me and be blameless.

Abraham walked with God, in relationship, in His presence, and was empowered with the Life of God by hearing His Voice.

• man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord. Deuteronomy 8:3
• ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’” Matthew 4:4

Consider Enoch -

And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. Genesis 5:24


This is what we are called to do today - Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21



JLB

 

[JLB]

I do believe we should follow the 10 commandments, but, as I stated, the Sabbath presents a problem,

The Sabbath is for us, because man needs to rest from work during the week.

The Sabbath under the law of Moses, was enforced by death.


The weekly Sabbath simply points us to the 1000 rest, when Jesus returns and we reign with Him during the "regeneration".


This will be the 7000th year, or the seventh prophetic "Day of rest", that the children of God are looking forward to, when all our enemies will have been removed, and we will dwell with Him physically upon the Earth in Jerusalem.

He will gather His people at the resurrection/rapture unto Himself, on His way down to Jerusalem, when He destroys the wicked, and takes His throne as King over the whole earth, in Jerusalem.


16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
Zechariah 14:16-21


Notice the context -


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5


This is what Jesus taught His disciples on the mount of Olives.




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I do believe we should follow the 10 commandments, but, as I stated, the Sabbath presents a problem, unless we can accept, as JLB says that they are until the seed should come, Jesus, and HE is our Sabbath. This could get complicated...

I have met Noahists (or whatever they're called) who follow only the 7 have have listed.
Thanks for bringing this up...

I too believe all need to follow the 10 commands of God as they are part of the 613 laws, but not all 613 laws are for the Gentiles, but only for the Jews as even some of those need not be followed any more like those of the temple sacrifices for that is what Christ came to fulfill in Himself. All I know about the Noahic was that God only gave seven commands to Noah and when He gave Moses the commands God had to have added three more to the seven, but yet all ten are apart of the 613 and not a separate list

When it comes to the sabbath day God sanctified it only as a day of rest from all our work during the week. It has nothing to do with Temple services or us going to Church on Sunday as that all came about by man, especially Sunday worship. Who is to say that Saturday is the seven day as God never named the days of the week nor did he give names to the months. We know that Gods days are not the length of mans 24 hour day as Gods timing is different than ours.

 

[Justicewolf]

Just a very short observation asking fellow Christians here this question. Do you tire of the antithetical argumentation some doctrinaires make and insist upon when absolutes in the Salvation plan are posted?