God's plan for the Gay Agenda

[SputnikBoy]

hey i just read about this topic and it interested me, but then i got kinda annoyed about the whole "gay condemnation" thing. It doesnt inspire people (gays) to change, it just makes them feel more insecure, scared and very cut-off from the christian community. And if they do change it would be out of fear and not out of love for their God, which to me is completely wrong. I think i would've been more inspired by comments such as "God loves you, and that he can help you change," not the whole "your going to hell" tone of comments you make. ARGH sorry i just feel so worked up...lol.

I don't go up to gays and tell them they are bad. You're just assuming this by scriptural positions upheld on this board. I don't think the others do that either. But you either you believe the biblical position or you don't.

The biblical position, eh? I remain with my original position on this issue. That is that God has nothing to do with one's sexual disposition at birth whether it be 'homosexual' or 'heterosexual'. The scriptures really do not shed any light on this PARTICULAR aspect of the issue under discussion. The Bible talks about 'sin' and does not single out any particular orientation. If anything ...heterosexual 'sexual sins' are by far more defined and condemned by the scriptures. And, the MAN Himself, Jesus, said nary a word about homosexuality.

Furthermore, I believe that it's the 'sinful behavior' of the individual of either orientation that the Bible makes reference to. Anything other than this view - I believe - comes from sources outside the Bible. That is, from the mouths of men.

In my opinion, most Christians 'parrot' what they hear ...WHATEVER the issue may be. The overwhelming majority of Christians would be hard pressed even to direct anyone to actual scriptural texts that condemn 'homosexual sins'. In other words, I believe that the majority of Christians have no clue which way is up.

 

[antitox]

The biblical position, eh?

Sput, do you think I would expect you to adhere to a belief in biblical truth? You are not the one I was responding to.

I remain with my original position on this issue. That is that God has nothing to do with one's sexual disposition at birth whether it be 'homosexual' or 'heterosexual'.

Depends on what you believe about gays. If you think God "made a mistake" with these folks then it explains why you have trouble with God, period.

The scriptures really do not shed any light on this PARTICULAR aspect of the issue under discussion. The Bible talks about 'sin' and does not single out any particular orientation.

Oh yes it does. Where have you been through all the scripture posting on this board about homosexuality? It must go right over your head.

If anything ...heterosexual 'sexual sins' are by far more defined and condemned by the scriptures. And, the MAN Himself, Jesus, said nary a word about homosexuality.

So Jesus has to address it personally or God's word isn't valid? You haven't paid one bit of attention to anything in regard to this. If everything stated in the bible was reposted that has already been shown by the scripture advocates on this board (many times, at that), you would forget it once again by tomorrow and act like it never was mentioned.

Furthermore, I believe that it's the 'sinful behavior' of the individual of either orientation that the Bible makes reference to. Anything other than this view - I believe - comes from sources outside the Bible. That is, from the mouths of men.

Of course you do. You aren't going to believe God. He just doesn't fit your belief system, so you adjust it a little.

In my opinion, most Christians 'parrot' what they hear ...WHATEVER the issue may be. The overwhelming majority of Christians would be hard pressed even to direct anyone to actual scriptural texts that condemn 'homosexual sins'. In other words, I believe that the majority of Christians have no clue which way is up.[/color]

:smt042 Yeah, just toss that ol bible aside and make your own doctrine. You are free to do that.

God isn't going to make you believe what you want, Sput, but you will get what you choose. :-?

 

[Relic]

The biblical position, eh? I remain with my original position on this issue. That is that God has nothing to do with one's sexual disposition at birth whether it be 'homosexual' or 'heterosexual'. The scriptures really do not shed any light on this PARTICULAR aspect of the issue under discussion. The Bible talks about 'sin' and does not single out any particular orientation. If anything ...heterosexual 'sexual sins' are by far more defined and condemned by the scriptures. And, the MAN Himself, Jesus, said nary a word about homosexuality.

Furthermore, I believe that it's the 'sinful behavior' of the individual of either orientation that the Bible makes reference to. Anything other than this view - I believe - comes from sources outside the Bible. That is, from the mouths of men.

In my opinion, most Christians 'parrot' what they hear ...WHATEVER the issue may be. The overwhelming majority of Christians would be hard pressed even to direct anyone to actual scriptural texts that condemn 'homosexual sins'. In other words, I believe that the majority of Christians have no clue which way is up.

Sputnikboy your post just proves you ignore the scriptures and come here to post your own views which are totally outside of biblical truths.

Who are you to say God has nothing to do with a persons sexual disposition at birth whether it be 'homosexual' or 'heterosexual' :o

I believe YOU have no clue which way is up. :-? Are you even seeking after Gods' own heart? Or are you ignoring the scriptures which don't suit your opinion? You rarely rely on scritpure to prove your point. This is a Christian Forum. If you read your bible you would know how to help others in providing helpful scripture that convicts of sin and shows a way to overcome. But you only post your own opinion that serves no one any good but your own stubborn ego which is contrary to what scritpures teach on the subject.



Romans 1:20-32

...so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.



Do you need more proof? The bible is full of it!


.

 

[antitox]

Romans 1:20-32

...so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.



Do you need more proof? The bible is full of it!

Well Relic, you did it again. You gave him more information to forget. :-? :smt081

 

[Relic]

Well Relic, you did it again. You gave him more information to forget. :-? :smt081

:smt081 : :smt045

.

 

[Windozer]

Well Now !!!! I just took an on line walk through the new testament looking for the word save.

And... all of you experts... guess what I found?

Strong's Number: 4982 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
sozo from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe")
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Sozo 7:965,1132
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
sode'-zo Verb

Definition
to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
one (from injury or peril)
to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
to save in the technical biblical sense
negatively 1b
to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment 1b
to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 1295 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
diasozo from (1223) and (4982)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Diasozo None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
dee-as-odze'-o Verb
Definition
to preserve through danger, to bring safely through
to save, i.e. cure one who is sick, bring him through
to save, keep from perishing
to save out of danger, rescue

Not one reference to obeying the Mosaic law...Not one reference to being sinless...
So tell me please...why should I believe you?

 

[Rick W]

God's Plan for the Gay Agenda

Or more accurately:
The Gay Agenda's plan for God.

As time passes the rift between the world and biblical doctrine will inevitably widen. During this process are points at which one may compromise the Word to suit one's own desire to practice those things which are against said doctrine. Acceptance of sin within society means the need of repentance becomes less and less. "It's ok. There is no need to repent for this practice is not sin.". This goes whether it be shacking up, insult through citing freedom of speech or any other immoral act once viewed as sin. Once the acknowledgment of sin goes away repentance becomes less necessary in the judgment of men.

Can't find specific reference to something in the bible? Did Jesus address the issue of interest? If not then it must be OK right?
Jesus never said anything about pedophilia. Does this mean it's OK? Jesus never said anything about bestiality so that's OK too I suppose. He never mentioned smoking dope or crack either. In fact, He never mentioned the word bible, trinity or rapture. Therefore these words/doctrines are the imaginings of men and not to be trusted. After all, Christ never said anything about such things.

Homosexuality is here, polygamy/polyandry is on the horizon and consensual love between adults and adolescents is making itself known. Many advocate no restriction on number, gender or species concerning sex. The only parameter being age and that is under attack. Sexual anarchy is a plausible outcome. But can it end there? No. Time goes on and things change all in the name of progress. One must ask, how far do we allow this to go? Each generation lowers the bar for the goal is no bar at all. But, with social acceptance there is no acknowledgment of sin and repentance becomes a thing of the past.

 

[Windozer]

What has become a thing of the past for many here is the correct understanding of the word save.

Jesus gave of his life so that he could save us and many do not understand what that means. Or in other words (more accurately) many do not understand Gods plan for sin.

 

[Rick W]

Will all be saved Windozer?

 

[Windozer]

Will all be saved Windozer?

Being as I am not the saviour and could do nothing about it if all are not saved, that is a question that is none of my business Potluck.

 

[Rick W]

Then do you believe recognition of sin and the repentance thereof is important to salvation?

 

[Windozer]

Then do you believe recognition of sin and the repentance thereof is important to salvation?

Being that you are not the savior, and can do nothing about it if I don't, that is none of your business.

May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you Potluck.

 

[Rick W]

Why are you afraid to let your beliefs be known? If you're that hesitant to state your position then please refrain from refuting those that do. Debate is founded on each taking a known stance. To remain uncomitted yet confrontational only serves to project a lack of confidence.
Take no offense at this. I'm simply trying to determine where it is you're coming from. But you can't just remain hidden in the brush sniping at those who have the fortitude to come into the open. That's not debate.

 

[Guest]

A thread like this will let you know in a heartbeat who has progressive liberal tendencies and bias. All of you know where I stand on this subject. The gays are not the problem, they have been around and they will continue to be around. The real enemy is the progressive liberal supporters. Without liberal supporters the gay agenda would never have happened. These liberal supporters are the ones who must be put in there place once and for all. Without liberal support the gay agenda would die and fade away. Something to think on

 

[antitox]

A thread like this will let you know in a heartbeat who has progressive liberal tendencies and bias. All of you know where I stand on this subject. The gays are not the problem, they have been around and they will continue to be around. The real enemy is the progressive liberal supporters. Without liberal supporters the gay agenda would never have happened. These liberal supporters are the ones who must be put in there place once and for all. Without liberal support the gay agenda would die and fade away. Something to think on

Valid point.
Yes, a social stance in the liberal agenda that condones/sanctions immorality under the guise of "freedom."

 

[Windozer]

Why are you afraid to let your beliefs be known? If you're that hesitant to state your position then please refrain from refuting those that do. Debate is founded on each taking a known stance. To remain uncomitted yet confrontational only serves to project a lack of confidence.
Take no offense at this. I'm simply trying to determine where it is you're coming from. But you can't just remain hidden in the brush sniping at those who have the fortitude to come into the open. That's not debate.

I am not afraid to let my beliefs be known and they come out in many of my postings. However it was not hard to see that your intent was to argue, as opposed to any good will. I could care less what debate is founded on. It may surprise you but that is not why I am here.

I am not so important that I want you to believe me. But when I see that you don't believe what the bible says I will snip away.

I am not committed to you so get that one out of you head, or more accurately get off of Gods throne. Acting as though you have some kind of authority over me, will get you no where..

I posted a post above that challenges you that you can not debate so you attempt to get me in a position where you can attack. I saw that coming.

It is not difficult to determine. where you and those who agree with you here are coming from. All you have offered here are opinions which are a lot like ones behind, Every body has one. But some of them stink more than others.

God bless you all?

 

[Rick W]

I don't give a **** Edited for Rule Violation **** what debate is founded on.

Nor the forum rules it appears.

Oh well. I tried to be civil without resorting to gutter talk.
Have a good day.

 

[Steve]

I lean towards SputnikBoy. First of all, I am tired of hearing about homosexuality. Isn't there anything else to talk about? God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that WHOEVER(including homosexuals) believes in Him has eternal life.

Some people, I believe, are born homosexual. Some are not. Yes, God can change one's sexual orientation. will He? I doubt it. I think everyone, heterosexual and homosexual, have to use their sexuality in a responsible way.

I think there are more important things confronting the Church and confronting the world than who someone else goes to bed with. i really couldn't care less.

 

[SputnikBoy]

The biblical position, eh? I remain with my original position on this issue. That is that God has nothing to do with one's sexual disposition at birth whether it be 'homosexual' or 'heterosexual'. The scriptures really do not shed any light on this PARTICULAR aspect of the issue under discussion. The Bible talks about 'sin' and does not single out any particular orientation. If anything ...heterosexual 'sexual sins' are by far more defined and condemned by the scriptures. And, the MAN Himself, Jesus, said nary a word about homosexuality.

Furthermore, I believe that it's the 'sinful behavior' of the individual of either orientation that the Bible makes reference to. Anything other than this view - I believe - comes from sources outside the Bible. That is, from the mouths of men.

In my opinion, most Christians 'parrot' what they hear ...WHATEVER the issue may be. The overwhelming majority of Christians would be hard pressed even to direct anyone to actual scriptural texts that condemn 'homosexual sins'. In other words, I believe that the majority of Christians have no clue which way is up.

Sputnikboy your post just proves you ignore the scriptures and come here to post your own views which are totally outside of biblical truths.

There are any number of scriptures that I freely admit to not totally understanding, Relic. I don't have a degree in theology. Nor do I have a Bible where I underline certain texts with magic marker to conveniently use as a weapon against 'specific sinners' whenever I need to.

And, sometimes I actually DO rely on my own views and opinions. I have a God-given brain (thanks God!) with which I attempt to reason out issues such as this particular one under discussion. Homosexuality is not nearly as well defined an issue as some of you imagined 'experts' would have it and THIS is what I'm continually trying to put across. In your ignorance of 'sexuality' and one's 'natural' disposition or attraction to the same gender, you label this as a 'sin' that is subject to the extreme wrath of God.

Who are you to say God has nothing to do with a persons sexual disposition at birth whether it be 'homosexual' or 'heterosexual' :o

I don't know, Relic.

I believe YOU have no clue which way is up. :-?

Could be. But I do consider myself to be an honest Christian. I call ignorance when I see it and I call hypocricy when I see it and both of these traits ABOUND within Christianity today. ANYONE who points the finger at another and condemns them to hell for sinning is a hypocrite. As mentioned previously, I really do believe that most Christians are puppets who haven't got a clue who is pulling the strings.

Are you even seeking after Gods' own heart?

Are you, Relic ...honestly? Whether I am or not has nothing to do with the issue under discussion. But, if asking such a question of me makes YOU feel 'holier', then go for it.

Or are you ignoring the scriptures which don't suit your opinion?

I'm not so sure that I am ignoring scripture, Relic. Unlike you, evidently, I'm not always 100% sure what certain scriptures are pertaining to. I wasn't there at the time those particular scriptures were written so I can't know every specific item that they were addressing. I trust that YOU know, Relic, since I require something of you shortly.

You rarely rely on scritpure to prove your point.

Could you point me to specific scriptures that address one's sexual orientation at birth being a sin?

This is a Christian Forum. If you read your bible you would know how to help others in providing helpful scripture that convicts of sin and shows a way to overcome.

And you DO show those with an orientation toward the same gender how to overcome? How many 'genuine' homosexuals do you think have changed to heterosexuals by reading the condemning scriptures that you present?

But you only post your own opinion that serves no one any good but your own stubborn ego which is contrary to what scritpures teach on the subject.

I have never intentionally gone out of my way to serve my own stubborn ego, Relic. If this is how I appear to you then you have completely missed the points that I've previously attempted to make.

Romans 1:20-32

...so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Do you need more proof? The bible is full of it!

Okay Relic. I'm going to plead ignorance here. Those scriptures alone tell me little to nothing. They are gobbledegook and archaic in regard to the issue of present-day homosexuality. If admitting to this makes me a sinner, then so be it.

What I would ask from you, Relic, is that you break down those texts into something more definable for me. Make me understand. I would like to know in plain, concise English, (1) the particular situation that the texts are/were addressing, (2) the specific people who are/were being addressed, (3) WHAT exactly those 'sinners' are/were doing to warrant the admonition in the first place, and, (4) HOW those specific texts apply to folks today who have a specific orientation toward the same gender.

I ask YOU to use YOUR God-given brain and, rather than merely posting those texts and then basking in some glory at having done so, EXPLAIN those texts and their intent to me. Thanks.

 

[antitox]

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

I ask YOU to use YOUR God-given brain and, rather than merely posting those texts and then basking in some glory at having done so, EXPLAIN those texts and their intent to me. Thanks.

Hello? When are you going to use yours?

Are you closing your eyes when something is shown to you? Now what is it you can't discern about this text?

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman; burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Now if you are so clueless about this, then that explains why you think gay is ok. It would be simple ignorance. You folks amaze me that you go blind every time someone puts truth in front of you. And when that happens, you say you need to "break down the text." If God came down and told you personally, you probably wouldn't listen because you are closed to it.

It's a sick sick world.