GODS ten commandments

[I Reckon Sow]

Must you try keep all 10 in order to be saved?

 

[Bick]

God's ten commandments

Hi I Reckon Sow. If the whole world tried to "keep" the ten commandments, to achieve a "righteousness" acceptable to God, they would fail. Only one person fulfilled the Law, even Christ Jesus.

Read Romans chapter 3. Paul concludes that the secular man, the self-righteous man, and the religious man (the Jew), are all under sin, all miss the mark: none are righteous, none seek God.

Even those under the Law and the whole world are guilty. For by the deeds of the law no one can be justified (declared right) in His sight. For by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The Law is like a schoolmaster, meant to show us where we come up short.

But, the good news is, that righteousness of God has been manifested, through faith of Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and are coming short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace.

For all those who believe into Jesus Christ have been justified (just as if I'd never sinned).

Bye for now, Bick

 

[R7-12]

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin (Rom. 6:12a, NKJV).

All unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17a).

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

The wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23).

Oh, that you had heeded My commandments! Then your peace would have been like a river, And your righteousness like the waves of the sea (Isaiah 48:18).

‘Then it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to observe all these commandments before the LORD our God, as He has commanded us.’ (Deut. 6:25).

My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness (Ps. 119:172).

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven (Mat. 5:18-19).

For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,†also said, “Do not murder.†Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law (James 2:10-11).

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Mat. 7:21-23).

Jesus Christ said,
...if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments (Mat. 19:17b).

...the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him (Acts 5:32b).

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us (1 John 3:24).

All these scriptures are from the word of Almighty God and are true.

Which commandment(s) of God do think we can reject and still receive the Spirit of God and enter into everlasting life?

R7-12

 

[Georges]

Must you try keep all 10 in order to be saved?

No! You must try and keep them because it is the right thing to do....Your salvation comes from your faith in God and your attitude concerning his wishes.

 

[reznwerks]

Must you try keep all 10 in order to be saved?

No! You must try and keep them because it is the right thing to do....Your salvation comes from your faith in God and your attitude concerning his wishes.

Somewhere in these posts this issue came up and it was stated that God does not judge on a sliding scale. Your claim is that God will probably use the 1 thru 10 gauge. At what point are you saved , greater or lesser than 5?If as you say your salvation is based on faith then why worry about sinning?

 

[Georges]

Must you try keep all 10 in order to be saved?

No! You must try and keep them because it is the right thing to do....Your salvation comes from your faith in God and your attitude concerning his wishes.

Somewhere in these posts this issue came up and it was stated that God does not judge on a sliding scale. Your claim is that God will probably use the 1 thru 10 gauge. At what point are you saved , greater or lesser than 5?If as you say your salvation is based on faith then why worry about sinning?

Please don't attach me to anything you had just stated.....I've never said such a thing...if so please post it, so I can address it. In the future please refrain from putting false statements or attaching other poster's statements to my name.....

Thank you ....in advance.

 

[ChristineES]

I think the biggest thing is that people seem to think that the 10 commandments are part of The Law, they are, but at the same time they are not. They seem to be more ten rules in order to live with God and others better.
I think it is a good idea to obey them as best you can. We all sin, that is why Jesus died for us. The 10 commandments are not that hard to follow! They are not unreasonable!!! For example, do people find it hard not to murder or commit adultery? Is it so hard to find one day or rest out of seven? Is it impossible to not say the Lord's name in vain or not worship any other Gods? I could go on.
They were not abolished!!!!

 

[Georges]

I think the biggest thing is that people seem to think that the 10 commandments are part of The Law, they are, but at the same time they are not. They seem to be more ten rules in order to live with God and others better.
I think it is a good idea to obey them as best you can. We all sin, that is why Jesus died for us. The 10 commandments are not that hard to follow! They are not unreasonable!!! For example, do people find it hard not to murder or commit adultery? Is it so hard to find one day or rest out of seven? Is it impossible to not say the Lord's name in vain or not worship any other Gods? I could go on.
They were not abolished!!!!

I'll go one further.....the Mosaic Law are the 10 commandments broken down (as in fine tuned).

In other words:

You have 10 Commandments (catagories) with 613 laws assigned to the various catagoies.

In other words:

Each of the 613 rules found in the Mosaic Law can be grouped into one of the 10 commandment catagories.

In other words:

You have one of the 10 that states: "Thou shalt not murder". In the Mosaic law there are many laws that help make up the circumstance of "Thou shalt not murder".

In other words:

10 commandments (catagories)
613 laws (sub catagories)

 

[R7-12]

Hi ChristineES,

You said,

The 10 commandments are not that hard to follow! They are not unreasonable!!! For example, do people find it hard not to murder or commit adultery? Is it so hard to find one day or rest out of seven? Is it impossible to not say the Lord's name in vain or not worship any other Gods? I could go on.
They were not abolished!!!!

I agree the law of God has not been abolished; scripture makes that very clear as it is written. However, of the five references you gave concerning the commandments of God, one of them is incorrectly given.

You asked,

Is it so hard to find one day o[f] rest out of seven?

I have never read a single verse in the entire Bible that states the fourth commandment is to “rest one day out of seven.†Nor have I ever read in the Bible that we are to “find†a day of rest ourselves. Perhaps you didn’t mean to express it as you did in this post.

Would you mind clarifying, through the use of scripture, what God requires of His servants concerning the fourth commandment?

Thanks,
R7-12

 

[ChristineES]

Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy. I combined this with in Genesis when God rested on the 7th day. That is what I take it to mean.

 

[R7-12]

I would agree that the commandment is to observe the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath day of God.

The commandment is,
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it (Exodus 20:8-11, NKJV).

It is a memorial to the elohim who was given the responsibility of the physical creation by delegation from his God and Father.

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him (John 1:10).

All things were created through Him and for Him (Col. 1:16c).

God who created all things through Jesus Christ (Eph. 3:9b).

That's why Christ said,
“Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.†(Luke 2:18).

Jesus Christ is the one who gave the law of God to Moses in the first place (Acts 7:53, Gal. 3:19, 1 Cor. 10:4).

The significance of the fourth commandment is often overlooked,
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14‘You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15‘Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16‘Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17‘It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ †(Ex. 31:12-17 cf. Eze. 20:20).

For I am the Lord, I do not change (Mal. 3;6).

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb. 13:8).

“And the statutes, the ordinances, the law, and the commandment which He wrote for you, you shall be careful to observe forever; you shall not fear other gods. 38“And the covenant that I have made with you, you shall not forget, nor shall you fear other gods. 39“But the Lord your God you shall fear; and He will deliver you from the hand of all your enemies.†(2 Kings 17:37-39).

So shall I keep Your law continually, Forever and ever (Psalm 119:144).

The Sabbath day from Almighty God is the seventh day of the week and the fourth of the Ten Commandments. If a person does not observe this command (or any of the pothers) they are in breach of the law and therefore sin continually without repentance and are therefore excluded from mercy. Forgiveness of sin follows repentance.

R7-12

 

[I Reckon Sow]

Alls i wanna say now is (WOW)
When i first started going on line there were very few that believed that Jesus was the same today, yesterday and forever. Today i can go to most sites and there are many of us. There seems to be many taking hold of the skirt of him that is a ...

Israel becoming a nation, knowledge greatly increased, Nearing the end of two thousand years (after 2 days) live in His sight

Aint the WORD of GOD beutiful!

 

[Sothenes]

Must you try keep all 10 in order to be saved?

Only if you can do it perfectly without making any mistakes (even one time) over your whole life and no one can do that because they have original sin.

 

[Klee shay]

The Sabbath day from Almighty God is the seventh day of the week and the fourth of the Ten Commandments. If a person does not observe this command (or any of the pothers) they are in breach of the law and therefore sin continually without repentance and are therefore excluded from mercy. Forgiveness of sin follows repentance.

One cannot abide in all the law to perfection as Christ did it. Being in breach of the law is sin but it does not excluded us from God's mercy. For Christ died so that mankind could be offered forgiveness in sin.

We are to respect the law and abide in it as much as we can; and we should teach that it is good to abide in the law as you have just done. But to say that disobedience is continual sin without mercy from God is in serious err, for sin is even in our very flesh. Every day we live we are in continual sin and it was the mercy of God which offered mankind grace through Jesus in the first place.

I thought it important to highlight this point, so that people do not obey the law out of blind fear of a merciless God. If one is to obey the law of the Sabbath, it should be out of love and reverence for an incredible provider. Surely the heart of the action is what keeps it holy?

 

[ttg]

I seem to recall this question somewhere else. Oh, yeah. The rich man. But Jesus says that following the commandments alone will not get you into the Kingdom of Heaven.


Matthew 19: 17-26

16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

18"Which ones?" the man inquired.

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"

20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"

21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"

26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

 

[R7-12]

Hi klee shay,

You said,

One cannot abide in all the law to perfection as Christ did it.

Ok, so what's the problem you seem to be inferring with this statement?

Because we have all sinned, no one is or can be in the flesh perfect as Christ was. However, when we repent for our past sins, we are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean, the sin is removed. We are declared justified on account of Christ’s blood through faith.

Being in breach of the law is sin but it does not excluded us from God's mercy.

What I said was, if someone does not observe the commandments they are in breach of the law and therefore sin continually without repentance and are therefore excluded from mercy. In other words, if someone lives contrary to the law they obviously have not repented for breaking the law and therefore remain in their sins being unrepentant.

If one does not repent for sin they remain sinners and are without mercy because they have not asked for it and don’t wish to change their behaviour.

Willfully living in iniquity excludes one from God’s mercy. When one is brought to repentance, they are forgiven, they stop doing evil, and begin obeying God.

Those who do not serve God, hate God, reject His word and will be repaid to his face.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? (Heb. 10:28-29).

“Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments; 10“and He repays those who hate Him to their face, to destroy them. He will not be slack with him who hates Him; He will repay him to his face. 11“Therefore you shall keep the commandment, the statutes, and the judgments which I command you today, to observe them (Deut. 7:9-11).

God keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him and obey His commandments.

And I said: “I pray, LORD God of heaven, O great and awesome God, You who keep Your covenant and mercy with those who love You and observe Your commandments (Neh. 1:5).

Jesus Christ taught that if we love him we will keep his Father’s commandments,
If you love Me, keep My commandments (John 14:15).

Those who hide their sin will not benefit from their conduct but those who confess their sins and ceases to live sinfully will have mercy,
He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy (Prov. 28:13).

The commandments are a lamp and the law a light that shines in the darkness from Psalm 119:105.

If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth 7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:6-7).

For Christ died so that mankind could be offered forgiveness in sin.

The offer of forgiveness is there as you have rightly said, but forgiveness is dependant upon our willingness to repent for breaking the law and then we must start living according to the commandments of God.

We are to respect the law and abide in it as much as we can; and we should teach that it is good to abide in the law as you have just done. But to say that disobedience is continual sin without mercy from God is in serious err, for sin is even in our very flesh. Every day we live we are in continual sin and it was the mercy of God which offered mankind grace through Jesus in the first place.

As I said, mercy is excluded where there is no repentance, therefore disobedience without repentance is continual sin and therefore without mercy which is a biblically correct statement. If I am mistaken, please provide the texts that say a lawbreaker or evil person or sinner is granted mercy without first coming before God in fear with a broken and contrite heart, trembling at His word, seeking mercy.

If one is to obey the law of the Sabbath, it should be out of love and reverence for an incredible provider. Surely the heart of the action is what keeps it holy?

That may be your opinion and you're entitled to it but I am only interested in the word of God. You may not recognize it but the quoted statement above is actually rather self-righteous. The thought is that since God is such an incredible provider I will worship Him on the Sabbath day out of love from my heart and out of reverence from my perception of things – surely the actions I choose from my heart is what keeps it holy.

Well no. When you were a child and you learned to be obedient to your father and or mother, did you obey because you determined he or she was worthy of it or deserved your obedience?

If we believe that God exists and His written word is “God-breathed†and His word commands His servants to observe the Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week, on what basis do we decide to comply? Because we have determined He is good enough to deserve our obedience? Do we keep it in the way we think it should be kept?

How is anything kept holy according to the Bible?

R7-12

 

[Drew]

In other words, if someone lives contrary to the law they obviously have not repented for breaking the law and therefore remain in their sins being unrepentant.

I (somewhat grudgingly) cannot deny the force of this statement. I suspect that N. American Christian culture has tried to create a kind of clean distinction between faith and obedience that just does not work Biblically. My understanding of the Scriptures is that we need to accept God's gift and repent in order to attain life. Perhaps I should reword - the very act of accepting God's gift really entails repentance. Without actual repentance, all we have left is mental assent to a proposition about a theory of atonement. My gut tells me, even aside from Scriptural arguments, this cannot really be enough.

If one does not repent for sin they remain sinners and are without mercy because they have not asked for it and don’t wish to change their behaviour.

R7-12, I presume that you believe that it is within the capability of people to indeed repent. I assume that you therefore disagree that sin is 'unavoidable' after the act of 'accepting' the sacrifice made on the cross. My question, and I apologize if you have dealt with this, is "Do you think that such obedience is achieved through good old-fashioned "sweat and determination" or does God give us "resources" to help us?

Assuming that you believe that God helps us to achieve obedience, I am wondering if you can tell me how this actually works - can you provide a more detailed story about how such divine 'assistance' is actually experienced by the dedicated Christian?

 

[R7-12]

Hi Drew

You said,
R7-12 wrote:

In other words, if someone lives contrary to the law they obviously have not repented for breaking the law and therefore remain in their sins being unrepentant.

I (somewhat grudgingly) cannot deny the force of this statement. I suspect that N. American Christian culture has tried to create a kind of clean distinction between faith and obedience that just does not work Biblically. My understanding of the Scriptures is that we need to accept God's gift and repent in order to attain life. Perhaps I should reword - the very act of accepting God's gift really entails repentance. Without actual repentance, all we have left is mental assent to a proposition about a theory of atonement. My gut tells me, even aside from Scriptural arguments, this cannot really be enough.

I would agree with your assessment at the end of the paragraph above.

You appear to be a very clear and logical thinker who is also willing to be honest with one’s self. People like you are a rarity these days.

You asked,

R7-12, I presume that you believe that it is within the capability of people to indeed repent.

It is the goodness of God that leads one to repentance but this is not without having first been given knowledge of what sin is and at least a starting point for obedience.

Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? (Rom. 2:1-4, NKJV).

I assume that you therefore disagree that sin is 'unavoidable' after the act of 'accepting' the sacrifice made on the cross.

The Apostle Paul said,

For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25I thank Godâ€â€through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin (Rom. 7:14-25).

Because we are flesh and blood and forever learning obedience through the things we suffer, as did Christ (Heb. 5;8), we, unlike Christ, will make mistakes form time to time even though it is not our true intent to disobey God. The Adversary and his colleagues are forever trying to influence God’s creation, and especially the called out ones, to think and act contrary to sound doctrine – the truth. Hence it is likely we will commit sin.

How easy is it to be truly impartial with all people? Do you never act or think as a respecter of persons? Do you never desire something physical more than you ought to? Do you never become angry because of your own selfish unmet needs or desires? Do you ever put your ways before the ways of God?

The point is, if the law is written in our hearts and put in our minds, then our character becomes transformed by the working of the Spirit. We are to live by God’s word as it is who we are, as apposed to just something we profess.

When we give up our ways for God’s ways He begins transforming our minds to think more clearly, to understand the deeper applications of His word and to better understand the higher spiritual application and purpose of the law. This occurs because we begin studying and meditating on His law which is how we begin to know Him. Why?

The law emanates from the very nature of God Himself. It is an expression of the principles that explain who He is and what He is like. One of the things we begin to truly learn more about is His grace and mercy. Why? Because we now understand what it really means relative to the law, which is what everyone will be judged by (James 2:12).

Jesus Christ said the weightier matters of the law are justice, mercy, and faith (Mat. 23:23). Does it make sense that justice is part of the law of God? Sure it does. How about mercy and faith?

There is much about the law of God that the Adversary does not want God’s creation to know about. Satan influences people to question God’s written word. That’s why so many in this world’s Christianity deny the law of God. Satan has so many Christian organizations, leaders, ministers and others asking, “Has God indeed said…?†They then turn around and make all kinds of false claims and assertions that God has revealed something or told them this or that when God has not spoken.

The whole point of Christ’s first advent was to deal with sin because as long as we are flesh and blood we will break the law from time to time. Lawbreaking is deserving of death without God’s mercy. We strive to do what is pleasing to God and the bare minimum He requires is that we stop sinning. When we do sin, we have a mediator who is also our High Priest who intercedes for us and covers our sin in his substitionary offering. Thus we die to the law, (i.e. as far as the law is concerned we are dead, thus having paid the price for lawbreaking), through Christ when we accept his offering in our place and trust that God will raise us from the dead because we believe God has accepted His son’s offering as sufficient. We then live in the spirit, walking according to the law of God – which is spiritual, doing what is pleasing to Him.

That is faith.

R7-12

 

[R7-12]

Drew,

You asked,

My question, and I apologize if you have dealt with this, is "Do you think that such obedience is achieved through good old-fashioned "sweat and determination" or does God give us "resources" to help us?

Assuming that you believe that God helps us to achieve obedience, I am wondering if you can tell me how this actually works - can you provide a more detailed story about how such divine 'assistance' is actually experienced by the dedicated Christian?

The covenant of God is an agreement. In it God has promised to fulfill those things which He has promised to do. Likewise we are expected to fulfill what we have (supposedly) promised to do. What was the first thing God asked of Abraham?

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 “And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.†3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him… (Gen. 17:1-3).

“Walk before Me and be blameless.†Can we accomplish this on our own? No. Can we do anything to try to fulfill this? Yes. By how we choose to walk. It is all about giving our will to God. We must choose to live as He has commanded by doing His will and not our own. When we begin living by His commandments, we begin to understand the principles at work in His law which opens up a whole new perspective on truth and the plan of God. Thus God reveals Himself to those who obey Him. When we encounter trials or difficulties in this life that require decisions or judgments on our part, we often fail, however, it is through this process that we learn what we need to know and what to do next time. Thus we grow in grace and knowledge and righteousness – not by our own doing but by the work of God in us.

And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.†Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong (1 Cor. 12:7-10).

It is through this process that we learn the discipline of God; and that is a good definition of what a disciple is.

For whom the LORD loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives. (Heb. 12:6).

It is by the Spirit of God that He accomplishes in us what He has called us to do, but we must be willing to do what He has enabled us to accomplish as part of the agreement.

God has given us many examples in Scripture by which we can draw encouragement. He gives His people His Spirit by which we are able to discern truth and make right choices. Almighty God reveals to us His deepest mysteries when we read His word with the right heart and intent and willingness. God also imparts faith, wisdom, knowledge, truth, and above all, love.

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the headâ€â€Christ 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love (Eph. 4:11-16).

Thus we are given many resources in our calling to walk before God and be blameless - to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

R7-12

 

[Klee shay]

Hi klee shay,

You said,

One cannot abide in all the law to perfection as Christ did it.

Ok, so what's the problem you seem to be inferring with this statement?

Because we have all sinned, no one is or can be in the flesh perfect as Christ was. However, when we repent for our past sins, we are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean, the sin is removed. We are declared justified on account of Christ’s blood through faith.

No problem, just stating a fact. One cannot abide in all the law to perfection as Christ did.

[quote:91b14]Being in breach of the law is sin but it does not excluded us from God's mercy.

What I said was, if someone does not observe the commandments they are in breach of the law and therefore sin continually without repentance and are therefore excluded from mercy. In other words, if someone lives contrary to the law they obviously have not repented for breaking the law and therefore remain in their sins being unrepentant.

True for matters of the Law and the generation preceeding Christ. You speak with knowledge of the scriptures and the conduct required from the Jews before God. What happened when Jesus came however?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." JOHN 5:24

If one does not repent for sin they remain sinners and are without mercy because they have not asked for it and don’t wish to change their behaviour.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." JOHN 8:34-36

Willfully living in iniquity excludes one from God’s mercy. When one is brought to repentance, they are forgiven, they stop doing evil, and begin obeying God.

You assume that living in iniquity is by not obeying the Law because the OT declared this truth for the season before Jesus came down from heaven to walk amongst mankind. But as Jesus said, the scriptures were they which testified on Him.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must he Son of man be lifted up: That whosever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent NOT his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." JOHN 3:14-17

Now you say that it is repentence of sin (disobeying the Law) which gives us God's mercy, but you miss the purpose of the Law and the reason for the scriptures. "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that beleveth NOT is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." JOHN 3:18

Those who do not serve God, hate God, reject His word and will be repaid to his face.

Yes; but service is always determined by God if it is for God. Do you know where God is and when he chooses to work. Do you know the service he will ask of every individual as he asked Christ to work on the Sabbath on his behalf too? What about the minister who saves a soul on the Sabbath day - is this not breaking the 4th commandment also?

As Jesus demonstrated, service to God is not restricted by the commandments. If the commandments were God breathed then you will obey the one who breathed them, will you not?

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. (Refering to the Law before Jesus came) 29Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? (Heb. 10:28-29). (Refering to the men who supposedly knew the Law and went about to kill the Son of God, whom the scriptures tesitfied of)

The point being made refers to the law abiders whom stoned without mercy to uphold the law; and yet how much more punishment will they bear for not seeing the mercy of God (Spirit of Grace) through his own Son?

“Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments; 10“and He repays those who hate Him to their face, to destroy them. He will not be slack with him who hates Him; He will repay him to his face. 11“Therefore you shall keep the commandment, the statutes, and the judgments which I command you today, to observe them (Deut. 7:9-11).

Again, spoken to a generation which truly needed the law to keep them in the light of God. Since Jesus' resurrection to the right-hand side of God however; we can be guided by his light.

God keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him and obey His commandments.

Something I do not doubt, but what of the resurrection of Christ? "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." JOHN 6:40

And I said: “I pray, LORD God of heaven, O great and awesome God, You who keep Your covenant and mercy with those who love You and observe Your commandments (Neh. 1:5).

Jesus Christ taught that if we love him we will keep his Father’s commandments,
If you love Me, keep My commandments (John 14:15).

And they were those commandments which testified of life through believing on the Son and the one who sent him - our Father in heaven.

Those who hide their sin will not benefit from their conduct but those who confess their sins and ceases to live sinfully will have mercy,
He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy (Prov. 28:13).

Agreed. Where we disagree is that disobeying the law prevents God from showing mankind mercy; for his mercy has already been extended to mankind through His Son. When we believe in Jesus we see God's mercy first hand...and you believe human ignorance of the 4th commandment is disobedience God will withhold his mercy from? Isn't that taking your eyes away from Jesus and putting the responsibility back on to man?

The commandments are a lamp and the law a light that shines in the darkness from Psalm 119:105.

"..I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." JOHN 8:12

If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth 7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:6-7).

Absolutely.

For Christ died so that mankind could be offered forgiveness in sin.

The offer of forgiveness is there as you have rightly said, but forgiveness is dependant upon our willingness to repent for breaking the law and then we must start living according to the commandments of God.

The condition of sin is far greater than the confines of the law Moses wrote of from God, for a stiff-necked generation. God sent us his Son so we would know repentence of sin on a far greater level.

We are to respect the law and abide in it as much as we can; and we should teach that it is good to abide in the law as you have just done. But to say that disobedience is continual sin without mercy from God is in serious err, for sin is even in our very flesh. Every day we live we are in continual sin and it was the mercy of God which offered mankind grace through Jesus in the first place.

As I said, mercy is excluded where there is no repentance, therefore disobedience without repentance is continual sin and therefore without mercy which is a biblically correct statement. If I am mistaken, please provide the texts that say a lawbreaker or evil person or sinner is granted mercy without first coming before God in fear with a broken and contrite heart, trembling at His word, seeking mercy.

Believing in Jesus is repentence unto life, for he is now the light. Those who do not believe in Jesus walk in darkness.

If one is to obey the law of the Sabbath, it should be out of love and reverence for an incredible provider. Surely the heart of the action is what keeps it holy?

That may be your opinion and you're entitled to it but I am only interested in the word of God. You may not recognize it but the quoted statement above is actually rather self-righteous. The thought is that since God is such an incredible provider I will worship Him on the Sabbath day out of love from my heart and out of reverence from my perception of things – surely the actions I choose from my heart is what keeps it holy.

If your heart is given unto Christ in belief, show me where it is not holy? It is Jesus who honoureth the Father, not mankind. And it was Jesus who taught us not to fear for ourselves because as God has clothed the earth with grass and has fed the birds in the sky; he shall also provide for us.

Well no. When you were a child and you learned to be obedient to your father and or mother, did you obey because you determined he or she was worthy of it or deserved your obedience? Why yes, because they demonstrated their love first.

If we believe that God exists and His written word is “God-breathed†and His word commands His servants to observe the Sabbath day, the seventh day of the week, on what basis do we decide to comply? (You have determined it is only through obedience and have rejected my offering of doing it with the right motivation - love. How Ironic you can quote the scripture from Jesus who said, "if you love me obey my commands," and yet miss the offering of love I added to your mere obedience.) Because we have determined He is good enough to deserve our obedience? Do we keep it in the way we think it should be kept? (We obey because we love God and the way we love God is through Jesus and the message he shared. You seem very well versed in the Lord's words which involve God's commands; now show me His words of life eternal and I will show you God's mercy through Christ.)

How is anything kept holy according to the Bible? Who then is to be saved?

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