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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Grace through faith believers won't be raptured but still get saved?
- Thread starter jonahmano
- Start date
The Holy Spirit Baptism, like Water Baptism, take place after conversion.
21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
John 20:21-23
The disciples received the Holy Spirit and were regenerated at this time.
Yet as He told them to wait for the promise of the Father, which would occur on the Day of Pentecost, for they had not yet been Baptized in the Holy Spirit.
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me;
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:4-5
...for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit, not many days from now.
There is hearing and believing the Gospel message and being born again.
Then Baptism in water.
Then Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit can come before Baptism in water.
Peter presents the Gospel message to the Gentiles -
34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ--He is Lord of all--
37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached:
38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree.
40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly,
41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead.
43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
God had ordained that the house of Cornelius should hear the Gospel Message and be saved.
God had moved upon Peter and Cornelius about this matter, so that this meeting was no chance matter, but preordained by God.
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, lord?" So he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God.Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter... Acts 10:1-5
So it is no wonder that the Holy Spirit fell upon the house of Cornelius, while Peter was still speaking...
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,
47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48
The only way the Jews who were with Peter could know for sure that the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles was the evidence.
those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
... For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit and then Baptism in water came after they believed the Gospel.
This was the pattern with the Disciples, at Pentecost, and this was the pattern with the House of Cornelius.
JLB
21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
John 20:21-23
The disciples received the Holy Spirit and were regenerated at this time.
Yet as He told them to wait for the promise of the Father, which would occur on the Day of Pentecost, for they had not yet been Baptized in the Holy Spirit.
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me;
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:4-5
...for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit, not many days from now.
There is hearing and believing the Gospel message and being born again.
Then Baptism in water.
Then Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit can come before Baptism in water.
Peter presents the Gospel message to the Gentiles -
34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ--He is Lord of all--
37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached:
38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree.
40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly,
41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead.
43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
God had ordained that the house of Cornelius should hear the Gospel Message and be saved.
God had moved upon Peter and Cornelius about this matter, so that this meeting was no chance matter, but preordained by God.
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, lord?" So he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God.Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter... Acts 10:1-5
So it is no wonder that the Holy Spirit fell upon the house of Cornelius, while Peter was still speaking...
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,
47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48
The only way the Jews who were with Peter could know for sure that the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles was the evidence.
those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
... For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit and then Baptism in water came after they believed the Gospel.
This was the pattern with the Disciples, at Pentecost, and this was the pattern with the House of Cornelius.
JLB
Yes.
Jesus had to remind them, after they had received the Holy Spirit and were converted, to remain in Jerusalem and wait for the promise of the Father... for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit, not many days from now. Acts 1:5
JLB
Dodged?
I informed him when it happened for me.
When did the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues happen for you?
It occurs after conversion.
A person must be taught and informed about the Baptism of water as well as the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19 -
1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples
2 he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Paul taught them the truth about this matter, and ministered it to them. -
3 And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism."
4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
The evidence that they received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is, they spoke in tongues, as all believers are called to do.
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:17
JLB
Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Pentecostal all my life when i hear folks implying tongues MUST go with , be the evidence of , etc the baptism of the Holy Spirit... Acts 2:3 comes to mind ...
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Pentecostal all my life when i hear folks implying tongues MUST go with , be the evidence of , etc the baptism of the Holy Spirit... Acts 2:3 comes to mind ...
FreeGrace pointed out that The books of Acts is a transition book. It goes from Israel or the Old Testament saints transitioning into the Church age. Having the Holy Spirit was not automatic for the Old testament saints. The Spirit "came upon" some and could be taken from some.
Psalm 51:11~New American Standard Bible
Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
The indwelling/baptism of the Spirit,sealing of the Spirit,union with Christ, did not take place instantly upon belief until the Church age started. When He was glorified and ascended to the Father.
John 7:39~~New American Standard Bible
But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.(When He ascended to the Father)
The Spirits indwelling started instantly when He was glorified. It was no longer the Spirit "upon" but the Spirit "indwelling."
This is probably why we should wait 14 years to be water baptized. Because water baptism illustrates that we know positional truth and the rejection of human good/our own righteousness when it comes to our salvation in Christ.
As for tongues,a known language, they ended in 70 A.D when Jerusalem fell. Tongues was for "this people".....the Jew that rejected the Gospel. Tongues were specifically for the Jew and it was the Gospel message. It was their final warning before their 5th cycle of discipline was administered.
1 Cor 14:21~~King James Bible
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Isaiah 28~~ 11 Indeed, He will speak to this people
Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,
12 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
And tongues ceased when the 5th cycle of discipline was administered to Israel in 70 A.D.
Leviticus 26:27-38; explicit in Deuteronomy 28:49-67
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Please show me the scripture that teaches us there is a "Church Age".
Your whole "theory" is based on ?.
JLB
The whole TRUTH is in mystery doctrine. Ephesians is a good place to start.
Eph 3~~9 and to bring to light what is the administration(dispensation) of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him. 13 Therefore I ask you not to lose heart at my tribulations on your behalf, for they are your glory.
The Church was unknown. A mystery. No one knew about it. And very few know about it today, because mystery doctrine is not taught. Replacement/dominion/covenant theology is taught.
One of the mysteries was "Christ in you" in the Church age.
Col 1~~25 Of this church(His body/church age) I was made a minister according to the stewardship(dispensation) from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,26 that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages(dispensations/administrations) and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
John 20:29~~New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
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I should be more careful. I do not think tongues have ceased. The BIBLICAL tongues have ceased.
I do not deny the reality of tongues today. They are either demonic or from emotions.
As for tongues,a known language, they ended in 70 A.D when Jerusalem fell. Tongues was for "this people".....the Jew that rejected the Gospel. Tongues were specifically for the Jew and it was the Gospel message. It was their final warning before their 5th cycle of discipline was administered.
1 Cor 14:21~~King James Bible
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people(the Jew); and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Isaiah 28~~ 11 Indeed, He will speak to this people(the Jew)
Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,
12 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
And tongues ceased when the 5th cycle of discipline was administered to Israel in 70 A.D.
Leviticus 26:27-38; explicit in Deuteronomy 28:49-67
You should be careful as you are dangerously close to Blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Someone who is praying in the spirit in an unknown tongue and you just decide that is of the devil and label the Spirit by which they are operating as such, then you have just called the Holy Spirit the devil, which is exactly what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is.
Watch Out!!!
JLB
So far, that hasn't been proven from Scripture.
This was the first time any of them received the Holy Spirit. Since then, people have received the Holy Spirit WHEN they believe. Acts 10:44,45,47, 11:16,17.
Acts 10 and 11 refute your claim.
What is your understanding of 1 Cor 13:8 regarding tongues? When will that be?
My question was general. When does it happen for everyone? And please back up your answer from Scripture. I'm never impressed with anyone's personal experience, since we know that many such experiences are directly contrary to the truth of Scripture. No offense. But I trust only Scripture; not someone's claimed experience.
So you connect the baptism of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues, huh?
So, how many times would you think that Paul was baptised by the Holy Spirit, for he said this: "I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;" in 1 Cor 14:18.
It is clear that this would refer to multiple events of speaking in tongues. So, was he being baptised each time he spoke in tongues. Or just the first time? Please answer these questions.
And what language were you speaking when you claim you spoke in tongues. For the Bible teaches that speaking in tongues was the ability to speak in a foreign language that you don't know but are communicating to someone else in their language. So, what language do you speak when you speak in tongues?
Gal 3:2 and 5 indicate it occurs WITH conversion. At the moment of faith.
I'd say your view needs a lot of correction.