th1b.taylor
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AMEN!
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Grace through faith believers won't be raptured but still get saved?
- Thread starter jonahmano
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Kidron
Member
Well, you might take the time to think about this part of this verse...
Romans 8:9.
"""""Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."""""
So, according to this verse, Paul speaking, NEW TESTAMENT.... if you dont have the Holy Spirit in you, as in "Christ in you the hope of Glory", then you are not saved, you are not going to heaven, and you are not a part of God's family.
you are "none of his"......according to the verse.
So, anyone who does not have the HS, is not born again, and is not saved.
Never mind arguing how to receive the HS....save that for another Thread.
As this verse shows you clearly that its not a transitional situation,....its a FACT of regeneration, that you have the HS, when you are converted., saved.
It is the HS that regenerates you, and that is an INNER MAN regeneration, (born again SPIRIT MAN) as the HS is IN YOU causing it to happen.
It is the HS that "seals you to the day of redemption"...Ephesians 4:30.
And if you offer this type of argument...
>>Well, that verse means you will eventually have it...<<<<
If you try that little trick, then what you are saying, is........"if you die after you are saved, but before you finally get the HS< then you are lost".
Then that my friend, is nonsense.
It's a fact that when you are born again, or regenerated, or converted, that you have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
However, that does not mean you have been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, or as Paul says "received' the Holy Spirit.
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:5
There is a Baptism in water, and there is also the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Baptism in water comes after a person is converted, or is saved by believing in Christ Jesus as their Savior.
Therefore, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, comes after a person believes and is converted.
Paul says it this way -
he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" Acts 19:2
When a person believes and is saved, then, afterwards comes Baptism.
JLB
Actually, it does exactly mean that!!! John the baptizer said this: “I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” NASB
He was referring, of course, to his cousin, Jesus of Nazareth. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is THE moment of faith and regeneration.
Seriously? When Jesus said that, the Holy Spirit hadn't come yet, for anyone. But when He did come (on the Day of Pentecost), He indwelt those who believed, to the Jew first, and then to the Gentiles. Early Acts records the early church, which was a transition from the OT. But after a time, even Gentiles received the Holy Spirit upon belief, which we see clearly in the story of Cornelius in Acts 10.
Or, it may not come at all. What's the point about water?
[Lacking scriptural support. See guidelines.]
Always interesting to see how one tries to pits Scripture against Scripture, even when they aren't aware of it.
Paul also said this: "This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?" Gal 3:2
And this: "So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?" Gal 3:5
From Gal 3:2 and 5, it is clear that one receives the Holy Spirit WHEN one believes in Christ.
Last edited by a moderator:
Kidron
Member
At first i thought you were trying to prove that water baptism saves you.
So, im glad thats not what you are trying to prove.
Then, i realized that you are actually just misunderstanding what i wrote.
So, we are good...
Also, Paul said in 1 Corin 1:17 that...... "Christ did not send me to "water" baptize".
This does not mean that he never dunked a convert, it just means that he understood the symbolic reason for the water and how it is not connected literally with the actual regeneration or redemption of a person.
Couldn't be further from the truth.
The Holy Spirit Baptism, like Water Baptism, take place after conversion.
Water Baptism is a separate event from initial salvation through believing the Gospel Message.
See Acts 19:2
JLB
Kidron
Member
Great.
now read vs 3, and note that the believers had only believed in, "John's OT JEWISH Baptism", that is .....(repent for the remission....)
then read vs 4, where Paul EXPLAINS THIS, and then begins to tell them about JESUS so that they can get SAVED.
see, all you have to do is read.
Isnt the bible so clear when you get the CONTEXT, and stop just trying to use one verse to prove something that isnt true?
And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
Acts 19:1-6
These disciples of John had been Baptised in water by John.
They only needed to believe on the Lord Jesus to be saved, converted or regenerated.
After they were regenerated through believing, THEN they were eligible to receive the Holy Spirit as on the day of Pentecost.
JLB
Kidron
Member
That is what you believe.
Fine by me.
Its not the Gospel, so, i would't be able to join you in your particular theology.
As for me, Paul didnt lay his hands on me, YET, i received the HS the day i was saved.
About 14 years later i was Baptized in water, but not for the remission of my sins, as my sins had been remitted 14 years earlier when i was born again.
Isnt that wonderful?
Fine by me.
Its not the Gospel, so, i would't be able to join you in your particular theology.
As for me, Paul didnt lay his hands on me, YET, i received the HS the day i was saved.
About 14 years later i was Baptized in water, but not for the remission of my sins, as my sins had been remitted 14 years earlier when i was born again.
Isnt that wonderful?
No. Water Baptism comes after conversion.
Water Baptism is a separate Baptism from the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
JLB
That is what you believe.
Fine by me.
Its not the Gospel, so, i would't be able to join you in your particular theology.
As for me, Paul didnt lay his hands on me, YET, i received the HS the day i was saved.
About 14 years later i was Baptized in water, but not for the remission of my sins, as my sins had been remitted 14 years earlier when i was born again.
Isnt that wonderful?
Were you Baptised in the Holy Spirit when you were saved?
Kidron
Member
Its the baptism of the HS that places us in this position.
"in Christ".
what im talking about is "regeneration", "born again".
being "translated from death to life".
This is not an ongoing "experience".
You dont get 7% of the HS one week, then 15% more in week 5, then on week 27 you get 31%.....till you are filled, only to leak it out and so you go back to get it filled up again.
Regeneration, is an adoption, whereby God takes you because you took his Son.
He doesn't take part of you now, then a part of you later, any more then he gives you 33 % of the HS when you are baptized in water then 18% more when you read your first 34 chapters of the NT.
Your bible says that, "if you dont have the Spirit of Christ, then you are none of his."
Its ither IN YOU< or its not.
There is however an enabling of the HS, for MINISTRY.
"in Christ".
what im talking about is "regeneration", "born again".
being "translated from death to life".
This is not an ongoing "experience".
You dont get 7% of the HS one week, then 15% more in week 5, then on week 27 you get 31%.....till you are filled, only to leak it out and so you go back to get it filled up again.
Regeneration, is an adoption, whereby God takes you because you took his Son.
He doesn't take part of you now, then a part of you later, any more then he gives you 33 % of the HS when you are baptized in water then 18% more when you read your first 34 chapters of the NT.
Your bible says that, "if you dont have the Spirit of Christ, then you are none of his."
Its ither IN YOU< or its not.
There is however an enabling of the HS, for MINISTRY.
It happened for me when the minister laid hands on me for this very purpose and I was Baptized with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.
JLB
21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sinsof any, they are retained.” John 20:21-23
He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
They received the Holy Spirit, but we're not Baptised with the Holy Spirit.
That came later... As it is written -
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Acts 1:4-5
The received the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them.
Later they were Baptised with the Holy Spirit
JLB
I said this:
"He was referring, of course, to his cousin, Jesus of Nazareth. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is THE moment of faith and regeneration."
Trying to time a ritual baptism with a real baptism is wrong.
We see throughout Acts that when people believed, they received the Holy Spirit. We know WHY GOD gives the Holy Spirit; as a seal, pledge, or promise, for the day of redemption. Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5.
The concept of baptism is "identification". The water ritual identifies believers with Christ's death, burial and resurrection. The real baptism identifies the believer as a child of God. Rom 8:16.
"He was referring, of course, to his cousin, Jesus of Nazareth. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is THE moment of faith and regeneration."
One is free to believe whatever they wish.
Please prove this with clear Scripture.
Agreed. And irrelevant to the discussion.
Trying to time a ritual baptism with a real baptism is wrong.
We see throughout Acts that when people believed, they received the Holy Spirit. We know WHY GOD gives the Holy Spirit; as a seal, pledge, or promise, for the day of redemption. Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5.
The concept of baptism is "identification". The water ritual identifies believers with Christ's death, burial and resurrection. The real baptism identifies the believer as a child of God. Rom 8:16.
Amen!!That is what you believe.
Fine by me.
Its not the Gospel, so, i would't be able to join you in your particular theology.
As for me, Paul didnt lay his hands on me, YET, i received the HS the day i was saved.
About 14 years later i was Baptized in water, but not for the remission of my sins, as my sins had been remitted 14 years earlier when i was born again.
Isnt that wonderful?