Hang on Folks! It's Getting Closer and Closer!

[preterist]

John here: That is the problem with your bible studying!
See Matthew 4:4 for starters, and then 2 Timothy 3:16 for a little more.

Then perhaps you will see a 'little' understanding in 1 John 4:6???

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

OK, so? Is Hebrews 1:1-2 words that proceeded out of God’s mouth?

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

So I guess you think this is me? Now let’s get some context of that verse shall we?

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come

Well, there it is again. Those “last days†we are discussing. Now back to Hebrews 1:1-2:

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The writer of Hebrews somewhere in the 1st century says he was in the “last daysâ€Â. Yet on this board I see people trying to convince me that we are in the “last daysâ€Â. So whom should I believe?

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Another shot at me I presume? Funny, but I seem to be the only one who uses scripture to support my position. Perhaps they apply to Jack Van Impe????

I thought you might like to know the truth for once, but I guess I was mistaken. Sorry to interfer with your worldly understanding.

Truth? I simply asked a question of you and you refused to answer. Let me try again and see if you can stay on topic:

You said this:

Quote:
He has taught me through the Word of God that Jesus will return to set up his reign on earth at the end of the age, just as he said.


I asked you this:

Would that be the end of the age that the writer of Hebrews spoke of?


Hebrews 9: 26 else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Or perhaps the one Paul spoke of?

I Cor. 10: 11 Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

So what “age†are you referring too? The one spoken of by the writer of Hebrews or of Paul? Or perhaps another? Scripture references would be helpful. By the way, I do not consider the “Left Behind†series as scripture so don’t use that as your basis.

Can you use scripture to support your view or are you like many who know what they've been taught but cannot prove it from scripture?

 

[John the Baptist]

You say: Truth? I simply asked a question of you and you refused to answer. Let me try again and see if you can stay on topic:
________

??????? :o
Perhaps I gave you even too much spiritual credit? Sorry. : Had you ever read that 'spiritual things are spiritually decerned'?

Refused to answer your question? It was posted up right there in plain sight. Go back and reread it. (by the way, the verse is 2 Timothy 3:16)
---John

 

[preterist]

You say: Truth? I simply asked a question of you and you refused to answer. Let me try again and see if you can stay on topic:
________

???????
Perhaps I gave you even too much spiritual credit? Sorry. Had you ever read that 'spiritual things are spiritually decerned'?

Refused to answer your question? It was posted up right there in plain sight. Go back and reread it. (by the way, the verse is 2 Timothy 3:16)

That response was directed at Solo. He is the one talking about the "end of the age".

If you are saying Paul and Hebrews speaks of the end of the Old Covenant Age, then we are in agreement.

 

[John the Baptist]

Naw, the Word talks to your 'message'! See Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15. There are ENDS for both of the OT & the NT age. Check out John 9:39-41 & 1 Peter 4:17 Christ came the first time, Christ comes the second time.

----John

PS: And the other O.S.A.S. believing, poster? Our postings detect nothing much is common.

 

[preterist]

Naw, the Word talks to your 'message'! See Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15. There are ENDS for both of the OT & the NT age. Check out John 9:39-41 & 1 Peter 4:17 Christ came the first time, Christ comes the second time.

----John

PS: And the other O.S.A.S. believing, poster? Our postings detect nothing much is common.

Sorry, but your posts make absolutely no sense. What are the verses in Ecc. suppose to prove? Are the verses in John and Peter suppose to prove an end of the NT age?

Why did Paul write this?

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[noblej6]

Hi preterist,

I follow where you are coming from and I realize you have a hard time getting John there to come clean with the answers. He thinks the verses he has listed mean something and to him I guess they do.

There is little doubt what the end of the age is, but to accept that as biblically written obliterates John's doctrine entirely. There would be nothing left.

It may be useful to list all verses that come to mind that indicate that the end of the age/world/aion would be first century just for clarity.

First there would be the two you already referred to:

Hebews 9
...............But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 1
1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

The above could be looked at as only meaning , "recently He has ......" except for verse like this.

Acts 2

16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17" 'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

1 Cor 7
29What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; 30those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away

There are the two verses where Paul includes himself or his readers in those who will live to see the parousia, there is the end coming after the gospel is preached and Paul asuring us that it was, there is the "all these things before this generation passes" verse which, if allowed to speak, says it all.

What other verses come to mind for you that tell us the end, the parousia or the establishment of the eternal kingdom occurred in the first century?

noble6

 

[Solo]

Define age as meant and you will understand the scriptures including John's writings. The scriptures that preterist noted describe the same end of the age. Paul was in the last days, and we today are in the last days. If the 6000 years of life was divided into three parts, we would see the end of the third age, the age of grace, the age of the non-Jewish, the age of the return of Jesus Christ. Jesus' return will usher in the one thousand year rest and the template of God's creation will be complete. In six days God worked and on the seventh he rested.

 

[noblej6]

Hi solo,

Define age as meant and you will understand the scriptures including John's writings. The scriptures that preterist noted describe the same end of the age. Paul was in the last days, and we today are in the last days.

No, you or I may well be in our last days all right but here we are talking about the biblical last days. The bible says what I pointed out.
The last days of the old covenant, the end of the aion when the new covenant begins. When finally mankind can achieve the eternal life promised since the beginning. Finally the time has come when man no longer has to sleep. 1 Cor 15:51.

The only way all three writers could have been totally truthful in the way they recorded the Olivet Discourse is if the 'end' and the 'coming' are part of the destruction of the temple event. Consider that for a moment and let me know of any other way they could all be correct.

All three writers record the question as being about when the temple will be destroyed, only one mentions the end and the coming, but again all three mention that THEY will see Him coming on the cliouds. The end as meant in theses biblical events was first century unless you have verses that show different and of course, override what I have put up.

How come Paul told his readrers that some of them would live until the parousia? Remember, saying Paul was wrong wouldn't be an option.

I don't hold to a 6000 year old universe. I'll guess 4.5 billion.

I'd be interested to read any suggestions concerning the accuracy of the three writers.

noble6

 

[John the Baptist]

Define age as meant and you will understand the scriptures including John's writings. The scriptures that preterist noted describe the same end of the age. Paul was in the last days, and we today are in the last days.

No, ... (removed for bottom line)
I don't hold to a 6000 year old universe. I'll guess 4.5 billion.

I'd be interested to read any suggestions concerning the accuracy of the three writers.

noble6

*******
Solo: (is that your quote that I agree with?)
This is one reason God does not believe in censorship. And God even let the devils message (and he) live on.

We believe in freedom too, right?? (within legal boundary)
Well, bottom line then: How else can one know the messages real author??? Quote: "I don't hold to a 6000 year old universe, I'll guess 4.5 billion'.

God states that He spoke and it stood fast! Just a couple Verses from His Inspiration of both sides of the cross. Hebrews 11:1-3 & PSALM 33:6-9.

So what do I do with this doctrine's original author?
See Titus 3:9-11 for hobby/horse fairy tales!! :fadein:

---John

PS: But this surely does fall in line with other's teaching of one burning in hell on & on, & on, with no end in eternities sight, huh? Obadia 1:16. + much more! Should we censor or warn these false teaching ones? :wink:

 

[Geo]

Funny discussion, just strange that nobody came up with
something equal to: "When we look at blue color what we
actually see is yellow, and here is why...."

Babylon is really about confusion, isn't it?

P.S. The Bible is about a 6000 years time frame until the New Mill.

The 4.5 billion years are from the Discovery channel, a source
that is mostly informing the world about "The secrets of Egypt",
"The lost hidden secrets of Egypt" and of course "The untold
secrets of Egypt that the mummies forgot to tell -- Now Revealed!"

 

[John the Baptist]

Geo?
The guy did say.. Quote: "I don't hold to a 6000 year old universe, I'll guess 4.5 billion'.

But perhaps he meant earth?

Regardless, man knows nothing about the universe other than what Christ Word tell us. Col. 1:16-17 is only starters.

---John

 

[Jake99]

Solo,

All are sinners so none are actually born of God, even Jesus who was born as all are born. And some say God is bad and good and Satan is just bad, so all may be born of God in that sense. It is the intention of God to prevent bad things from happening but this planet is dangerous by design and man is supposed to be smart enough to deal with that as if it is normal.
Don't build too close to the beach and stay away from fault lines that cause earth quakes as an example.

This is, the Anti Christs way of life and all you have to do is read a childrens bible to see that. And when a man comes before you and says he is the messiah how many times will he be turned away as Jesus was?

 

[noblej6]

Hi John,

I shouldn't have brought up the age of anything on this forum, I imagine there is a creationb/evolution forum somewhere.

HOWEVER.

The guy did say.. Quote: "I don't hold to a 6000 year old universe, I'll guess 4.5 billion'.

Yes, the guy(noble6)said it, and he meant it. Earth is about 4.5 billion , I've read, so I'm guessing the rest out there may be that or older in places.

Regardless, man knows nothing about the universe other than what Christ Word tell us. Col. 1:16-17 is only starters.

I know what Christ said about creation and I know this.

Our solar system is part of our universe. Now you say man knows nothing about our universe other than what Jesus told us. Whoops, maybe you never heard about this new planet that is out there and if you did, show me where Jesus explained that to us in the bible.

I didn't learn about the age of earth from Discovery channel. I learned about that from scientists and geologists I worked with many years ago.

Don't worry about my salvation fellas, that's between me and Him.

I won't discuss planet birthdays any more. Thanks.

noble6

 

[Vic C.]

Yes, the guy(noble6)said it, and he meant it. Earth is about 4.5 billion , I've read, so I'm guessing the rest out there may be that or older in places.

I'm assuming you are an 'old earth creationist'. There's a few members here who are also. I've pondered that myself. I asked myself, "with all we believe we know about the earth, space, the speed of light, etc., would Moses have understood any of that if God revealed it to him?". LOL We can barely grasp it ourselves. Is this something God really wants us to be concerned over? :-?

 

[John the Baptist]

Yes, the guy(noble6)said it, and he meant it. Earth is about 4.5 billion , I've read, so I'm guessing the rest out there may be that or older in places.

I'm assuming you are an 'old earth creationist'. There's a few members here who are also. I've pondered that myself. I asked myself, "with all we believe we know about the earth, space, the speed of light, etc., would Moses have understood any of that if God revealed it to him?". LOL We can barely grasp it ourselves. Is this something God really wants us to be concerned over? :-?

John here:
It seems not Vic. Genesis 6:6-9.

But the poster did catch a 'goof' by me. : (about knowledge. although limited!)

Christ stated that knowledge would be increased in the last days. and we have Hosea 4:6 for warning! but never will it go contrary to what Truth we already have. 1 Corinthians 14:32)

 

[noblej6]

Hi Vic,

Yes, I would be an old age creationist. Added to that I would be one who sees the tool of creation as being evolution.

Because there are three golf balls on the moon and I can look at analysis of the surface dust of Mars , I have no reason to doubt science and I have no problem reconciling that with the word of God eihter.

noble6

 

[noblej6]

Hi John the Baptist,

The goof you made was saying that all man knows about the universe was what we find in the word.

Jesus would have known the earth was a sphere, so show me that in the bible.

Answer the questions I posed in the first post.

noble6

 

[John the Baptist]

Isaiah 40:22 states this. But that is not important to you, is it?

And about your first post? I do not follow this subject, just bits at times.
I had years ago dismissed it as a decoy to important & non/hobby horse wast of time stuff. (no offense intended)

Do you believe the Word of God as authoritative in the 66 Books of the King James? That to me is Important Present Day Truth!
I think that you say something that resembles an old timer? Most it seems hold to the K.J.. (if they believe at all)

And the verses that I posted up above, and the 'goof' that I made was explained if the verses were read? In other words, your postings as I had read, already go contrary to the last few verses of the Word itself, so I find no interest in them as such.

---John

 

[preterist]

Do you believe the Word of God as authoritative in the 66 Books of the King James? That to me is Important Present Day Truth!
I think that you say something that resembles an old timer? Most it seems hold to the K.J.. (if they believe at all)

Would that be the 1611 KJV which contained the Apocrypha?

 

[noblej6]

Hi John the Baptist,

A circle is two dimensional, a shere is ....more than that. Nice try but you it holds no water. I heard that argument twenty years ago besides. It meant nothing then and it still doesn't.

I doubt it is necessary to study the scientific evidence of the the universe if you are not interested in such things, but you probably have little for grounds to make statements such as:

Regardless, man knows nothing about the universe other than what Christ Word tell us.

Christ's word doesn't say anything about angioplasti either but man knows.

Col. 1:16-17 is only starters.

16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Do you realize just how little those verses you quoted have to do with whether man knows what is out there or not?

Jesus created it, no problem! BUT that doesn't lay out the vast infornmation of the universe available to man today. Therefore "all is abvailable in the word" is a false statement.

To answer your question if I accept the KJV of the bible, yes I do. Seldom read it it anymore, but I have read it from cover to cover and accept it.

noble6