You're right. There's absolutely no maligning of the Scriptures within these posts.:
Wait - that's maligning?
My apologies.
Harry Potter
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Wait - that's maligning?
My apologies.
sigh, try learning of ancient cultures and then what the early christian fathers and also church traditions on the patriarchs say.
paul stated that God winked and overlooked the sin of men in days of past and that has passed. and you can clearly see that. if God had no grace there wouldnt be any redemption, all would have died or never been born.
your statements are typical of athiests and agnostics, yet when you do the same with your world views it not ok for us to call you out.
this is a christians site. our bible is the word of OUR LIVING GOD, AND IS TO BE REVERED AS SUCH. ITS IN THE TOS.
you have by proxy judged God, and said his standard is low and you are and your kind are the standard. remember that little secular huminast manifesto? all religions must. hmm you dont like us telling you how to live , but you love telling us what to live by.
yet have no such authority as you claim theres no relative truth.
paul stated that God winked and overlooked the sin of men in days of past and that has passed. and you can clearly see that. if God had no grace there wouldnt be any redemption, all would have died or never been born.
your statements are typical of athiests and agnostics, yet when you do the same with your world views it not ok for us to call you out.
this is a christians site. our bible is the word of OUR LIVING GOD, AND IS TO BE REVERED AS SUCH. ITS IN THE TOS.
you have by proxy judged God, and said his standard is low and you are and your kind are the standard. remember that little secular huminast manifesto? all religions must. hmm you dont like us telling you how to live , but you love telling us what to live by.
yet have no such authority as you claim theres no relative truth.
Yeah? Thanks for showing your intentions, less work to do.
You misunderstand me.
I apologize.
I thought I had shown a willingness to discuss my views? I am open to answering questions about my views in several threads here. I don't understand your claim.
I apologize for not realizing that my quoting of scripture would be taken as an attack.
I said no such thing. I said, quite plainly, that the bible was a higher standard to read and was so high that I was surprised a work of fiction could endanger it. I said that several times.
Well, actually, no, I don't remember that thing. I have never read it. Are you holding me to it? If so, why? I have never claimed to follow it.
I am not telling you what to live by - I'm discussing the implications of a book. (This is kinda weird, I feel like I'm in a rabbit hole of sorts and you think you're discussing a book and all of a sudden you're accused of having nefarious intentions of destroying a religion. Weirdest book club discussion ever!)
Did I claim that? Is this thread even about that? (and I think you mean objective truth?)
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This is untrue. You made a false statement about Scripture:
Rhea said:
Which was corrected by the actual use of Scripture:
theLords said:
And then, afterwards, proceeded to interpret said Bible verse and condemn it based on your presumptuous and agenda laden interpretation:
Rhea said:
Despite the fact, that no where in said verse does it make the ill statement you have made. No where is it shown that Bilhah acted against her will. On the very contrary, Rachel could have been giving Jacob her blessing to take on another wife (as the Biblical account of Jacob clearly shows the heartache of being in polygamous marriage). While this is also speculation on my part, which I happily admit, it does, however, showcase the loving heart of God more so than your version of things.
I never let my son read those books. My niece who is a wiccan witch says the spells are close enough to real and the books give the idea that casting spells is innocent fun. They require kids to read them in school here. Homeschoolers don't teach the books, Of Course.
In comparing the pros and cons of the Harry Potter books, I realized that there is very little contained in them that does not appear in books considered to be of a Christian nature; i.e., Lord of the Rings; the Narnia series. All of them contain elements of the very same nature, such as witches, wizards, trolls, elves, giants, casting of spells, etc. The premise of all of these books is the age-old good versus evil, and in each of them good prevails.
I'm thinking she is goofing on you. They are not real, they're goofy pseudo-latin.
barbara said:
I agree. All of the Narnia children cast spells.
The Harry Potter series is incredibly well written and contain a lot of good lessons for kids. As a matter of fact, I'd say Harry Potter will encourage more good behavior than the Saturday morning cartoons they've been churning out. Dumbledore specifically tells Harry in one scene that he has a choice between doing what is right and what is easy. And that's a choice we all make. Harry eventually chooses to do what's right instead of run away.
As for the magic? It's all make believe. The book never encourages you to do witchcraft and even includes Harry defending non-magic folks (called Muggles). That brings up another positive point in the series. It unmasks how horrible racism really is and how ridiculous it is. Hermione Granger doesn't have any magic relatives and, as a result, is bullied and even almost killed simply because of her lineage. This is utterly ridiculous as she is one of the most clever and talented witches in the series. The hatred held by "pure blood" wizards toward "Muggle-born" (or Mudblood) wizards causes so much trouble. It's a strong reminder to kids that prejudice is wrong.
It also encourages kids to reach out to those who aren't "cool." Neville becomes a hero in the book because Harry, Ron, and Hermione befriend him and encourage him instead of make fun of him, as many do. Luna Lovegood also becomes more confident in herself when Harry, Ron, and Hermione treat her with respect, even though she is a little "weird." Their kindness to her results in her loyalty to them, we even see a scene in which the main characters visit her room and find that she has painted pictures of them because she is so pleased to have friends at last. As a former outcast, I really appreciate this message.
Honestly, I haven't seen either message portrayed so well in a kids series. I think these books do a tremendous amount of good if you remind the audience that it is make believe and that witches do exist- but what they do is sin.
We Christians should focus on the damage of the Twilight series. Harry Potter needs to be left alone. If you're uncomfortable with it, don't read it, but don't assume that it's evil just because there's "magic."
As for the magic? It's all make believe. The book never encourages you to do witchcraft and even includes Harry defending non-magic folks (called Muggles). That brings up another positive point in the series. It unmasks how horrible racism really is and how ridiculous it is. Hermione Granger doesn't have any magic relatives and, as a result, is bullied and even almost killed simply because of her lineage. This is utterly ridiculous as she is one of the most clever and talented witches in the series. The hatred held by "pure blood" wizards toward "Muggle-born" (or Mudblood) wizards causes so much trouble. It's a strong reminder to kids that prejudice is wrong.
It also encourages kids to reach out to those who aren't "cool." Neville becomes a hero in the book because Harry, Ron, and Hermione befriend him and encourage him instead of make fun of him, as many do. Luna Lovegood also becomes more confident in herself when Harry, Ron, and Hermione treat her with respect, even though she is a little "weird." Their kindness to her results in her loyalty to them, we even see a scene in which the main characters visit her room and find that she has painted pictures of them because she is so pleased to have friends at last. As a former outcast, I really appreciate this message.
Honestly, I haven't seen either message portrayed so well in a kids series. I think these books do a tremendous amount of good if you remind the audience that it is make believe and that witches do exist- but what they do is sin.
We Christians should focus on the damage of the Twilight series. Harry Potter needs to be left alone. If you're uncomfortable with it, don't read it, but don't assume that it's evil just because there's "magic."
One of the best moments in the series is when Hogwarts wins the House cup, besting Sytherian by one point...and that one point was granted because Neville stood up to Harry, Ron and Hermione when he perceived them doing something wrong. As Dumbledore pointed out, "It's hard to stand up to your enemies...and even harder to stand up to your friends."
Good stuff. I truly appreciated Rawlings writing, especially in the fleshing out of what could have been "stock" characters like Neville and Luna. Both of these kids grow to show depth of character, courage, loyalty and not just in a "supporting" character way, but as people who grow through adversity. Neville could have just been "comic relief" and yet he turns out being one of the more complex characters in the book.
One thing I do think is a real problem for kids - and I talked at length with my kids about it, is how this series promotes little kids running off to solve very big problems without adult guidance. The novel puts kids in extreme danger and out of the help of their adult network - it often portrays the adults as helpless compared to the Brave Bold Willingness of the children. They sneak out of dorms, they run into the woods alone at night, they confront known dangerous people without calling for help.
I spoke at length to my kids about how this was novelization and it is virtually unheard of for this to be a good idea.
I spoke at length to my kids about how this was novelization and it is virtually unheard of for this to be a good idea.
I hear ya, but then again, that is the plot of basically every adventure book for children. You can't have the adults solving the problems...otherwise, it isn't an adventure book for kids. David Balfour's parents were dead, it was him alone against his wicked uncle and captors. Jim Hawkins as well had to be resourceful and brave to outwit Long John Silver and the pirates. Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy had to be taken out of this world and face the White Witch. Pinocchio learned his lessons when he ran away from home. Most often, in classic literature as well as today, it's the orphan, the lost child, the abandoned that overcome the odds to become the hero.
Not only that, they do get lectured on it many times. Remember when they took the flying car to Hogwarts? They nearly got expelled for that and McGonagall even suggested they write for help. Oops.
In the first book, they TRIED to get help but were unsuccessful. They were also 11. They believed that Snape was after the Sorcerer's Stone and that no one would believe them because... no one DID believe them. Same with the second book, they went after Lockhart, who wound up being an idiot, but they were trying to have some adult help, even if they did have to do this alone.
Hermione brings up in the fifth book that Harry has a "saving people thing." This ends up being a character flaw that he has to work through. JK Rowling makes it clear that they're not making good choices, even when they have good results. I'm not saying she gets the message across as well as perhaps she should have, but she also provides some VERY good examples of adult leadership. McGonagall, Dumbledore, even Hagrid, they are positive influences on the kids' lives. You don't see that as much with kid stuff today, just a bunch of idiot adults and idiot kids who are only a little smarter than the idiot adults. Even Focus on the Family mentioned this in their review:
And to the knucklehead who will undoubtedly show up and say "But JK Rowling said Dumbledore was gay so there are homosexual undertones" go read the books!! Not once in the entire series is homosexuality even mentioned!! Every romantic relationship in the entire series is heterosexual. Don't believe me? Read the books for yourself. I dare you to try and find ONE "gay joke."
In the first book, they TRIED to get help but were unsuccessful. They were also 11. They believed that Snape was after the Sorcerer's Stone and that no one would believe them because... no one DID believe them. Same with the second book, they went after Lockhart, who wound up being an idiot, but they were trying to have some adult help, even if they did have to do this alone.
Hermione brings up in the fifth book that Harry has a "saving people thing." This ends up being a character flaw that he has to work through. JK Rowling makes it clear that they're not making good choices, even when they have good results. I'm not saying she gets the message across as well as perhaps she should have, but she also provides some VERY good examples of adult leadership. McGonagall, Dumbledore, even Hagrid, they are positive influences on the kids' lives. You don't see that as much with kid stuff today, just a bunch of idiot adults and idiot kids who are only a little smarter than the idiot adults. Even Focus on the Family mentioned this in their review:
Wow. And they actually went on to give HP a more negative review than it perhaps deserved.
And to the knucklehead who will undoubtedly show up and say "But JK Rowling said Dumbledore was gay so there are homosexual undertones" go read the books!! Not once in the entire series is homosexuality even mentioned!! Every romantic relationship in the entire series is heterosexual. Don't believe me? Read the books for yourself. I dare you to try and find ONE "gay joke."
I don't generally have a problem with this except to caution that some people could be vulnerable to the allure of out and out witchcraft. Some people will take either extreme. Either they will want to burn the books, or they will fight and defend HP almost to a point that makes me uncomfortable. Why would a Christian be so defensive about Harry Potter? Of course, I believe I have it just right!
This could have the effect of heightening someone's interest in the occult and it could be a sort of gateway into more dark things. I read somewhere that a school of witching by the same name was inundated by letters of interest in their school for witches, but I couldn't find it when I searched for it now. But I could see how this would happen. Of course, these are the same people who would be struck by a low flying plane, but they are out there.
As with other things, I'm not concerned for well grounded Christians who can separate HP from their faith and put HP behind it, but some are vulnerable. Some are not anchored enough to get it.
Of course, I would expect an agnostic to dismiss the Christian perspective, but in a way I'm happy to have this disagreement. If I'm agreeing too much with the views of an agnostic, that might not be a good thing. Our oldest child has seen them all. I went to one with him, and I just thought it was like a dream sequence. No interest here.
This could have the effect of heightening someone's interest in the occult and it could be a sort of gateway into more dark things. I read somewhere that a school of witching by the same name was inundated by letters of interest in their school for witches, but I couldn't find it when I searched for it now. But I could see how this would happen. Of course, these are the same people who would be struck by a low flying plane, but they are out there.
As with other things, I'm not concerned for well grounded Christians who can separate HP from their faith and put HP behind it, but some are vulnerable. Some are not anchored enough to get it.
Of course, I would expect an agnostic to dismiss the Christian perspective, but in a way I'm happy to have this disagreement. If I'm agreeing too much with the views of an agnostic, that might not be a good thing. Our oldest child has seen them all. I went to one with him, and I just thought it was like a dream sequence. No interest here.
Mike, I always have said and will continue to say that parents need to know their kids when it comes to the Potter books or any other such books, movies, video games etc.
If one's child is sort of drawn to dark things...sit up and take notice. For most kids, these things won't be a problem. Kids truly do have a great propensity to separate fantasy from real-life. But, there will be some kids who are being drawn towards occultism, and for them...no, I wouldn't recommend the books.
When the media can portray Christians ranting against Harry Potter and actually say things like "Today, more than 14million children alone belong to the Church of Satan, thanks largely to the unassuming boy wisard from 4 Privet Drive."*, it shows Christianity and Christians to be hysterical, illogical and unreasonable....far more serious threats to the gospel than the aforementioned boy from 4 Privet Drive.
Of course, these claims are made without any kind of proof...just wild accusations which the media scoops up like ice cream to cause real harm to the gospel message.
The books are very good literature...they are not "orientation and instructional" books on witchcraft. I always know when I see claims like that, the claimant hasn't read the books.
Occultism isn't to be treated lightly, not at all. And, if one is drawn to it, or believes their children are drawn to it...then by all means take a pass.
But, to ban the Potter books out-right as "evil" because of occultism would be a lot like banning Much Ado About Nothing as pornography.
* Harry Potter is Evil!
If one's child is sort of drawn to dark things...sit up and take notice. For most kids, these things won't be a problem. Kids truly do have a great propensity to separate fantasy from real-life. But, there will be some kids who are being drawn towards occultism, and for them...no, I wouldn't recommend the books.
Good question. For me, it's not so much "defensive", rather than just wanting to counteract some of the misinformation and out and out lies that Christians have spread about the books.
When the media can portray Christians ranting against Harry Potter and actually say things like "Today, more than 14million children alone belong to the Church of Satan, thanks largely to the unassuming boy wisard from 4 Privet Drive."*, it shows Christianity and Christians to be hysterical, illogical and unreasonable....far more serious threats to the gospel than the aforementioned boy from 4 Privet Drive.
Of course, these claims are made without any kind of proof...just wild accusations which the media scoops up like ice cream to cause real harm to the gospel message.
The books are very good literature...they are not "orientation and instructional" books on witchcraft. I always know when I see claims like that, the claimant hasn't read the books.
Occultism isn't to be treated lightly, not at all. And, if one is drawn to it, or believes their children are drawn to it...then by all means take a pass.
But, to ban the Potter books out-right as "evil" because of occultism would be a lot like banning Much Ado About Nothing as pornography.
* Harry Potter is Evil!
Yes, Nick, a dream sequence. A dream sequence. To me the movie was like a series of wild scenes that made no sense. Are you happy now? Finding humor in my oldness!
Dora, I agree with everything you said. Though in my heart I'm concerned when I see some Christians faced with a choice to make sacrifices in their faith or their movie watching pleasures, and they choose to sacrifice their faith. I'm not talking about all Christians who chooses Potter. Just the ones who feel conflict and still choose it.
Yep, a Christian should always...always...listen to that inner voice of conscience. Whatever is not done from faith is sin....absolutely. And, in the case of parents making choices for their children, sometimes it is better to err on the side of caution.
Of course, it's best to not err at all...and that can be accomplished by parents communicating with their children, talking things over and prayerfully teaching their children how to discern things as well.
(Mike, you're not old...you can't be any older than I am...you're just old fogy, that's all!)
Of course, it's best to not err at all...and that can be accomplished by parents communicating with their children, talking things over and prayerfully teaching their children how to discern things as well.
(Mike, you're not old...you can't be any older than I am...you're just old fogy, that's all!
)