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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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He Rose On Sunday True or False
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
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phantom309
Guest
Im just curious as to why so many people argue about this.
Perhaps Im missing the significance.I just dont see how were any better for narrowing down the exact date and second on the 24hr clock.
Perhaps Im missing the significance.I just dont see how were any better for narrowing down the exact date and second on the 24hr clock.
handy
Member
I'm not making any claims about anyone specific around here...just commenting on general knowledge....
But, some want to make an issue that the Lord's Day is the Old Testament Sabbath Day, not the first day of the week, because it is the belief that the Lord's Day is on Sunday, celebrating the resurrected Christ, that established Sunday worship and... as has indeed been mentioned in this thread, some do believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the Beast.
Which, if someone truly does believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the Beast, I can see why the issue would gain in great importance.
However, JMJ has the definitive answer to the OP... Jesus most assuredly rose on the first day. (Not too sure why the fact that Mary went when it was still dark is considered significant... I drive my kids to the bus stop in the dark.
)Mark 16:9 isn't going to settle the "Lord's Day" controversy, but it should settle which day was Resurrection Day.
E
Elijah674
Guest
--Elijah here:
There is only one concrete 'DOCTRINE' given by an never changing God with HIS WORD for the 'span of a day.'
And your posting says that you know better than God does we READ.. ' and of course by doing so throw their chronology into oscillating vapor lock right at the get go.'
Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
[6] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
[7] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
[8] And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
[9] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
[10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
[11] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
[12] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[13] And the evening and the morning were the third day.
[14] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[17] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[18] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[19] And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
[20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
[21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[22] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
[23] And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen.2
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
And Note : This is the Godhead's WORD!
For me its more a matter or getting the story right. I think God cares quite a bit about truth and requires us to worship in truth.
However, as more and more posts come in on this thread, it does seem to be more of a discussion of Saturday vs. Sunday worship. It doesn't matter that much to me because I go to Church on both days anyway.
The NT says they took offerings on Sunday and that they also met for the purpose of worship on Sundays (at least occasionally). There is no right day or wrong day to worship. However, using the ressurection as a pointer to Sunday is wrong, because he resurrected sometime between 3 and 6 PM on Saturday -- Not Sunday morning.
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phantom309
Guest
I'm not making any claims about anyone specific around here...just commenting on general knowledge....
But, some want to make an issue that the Lord's Day is the Old Testament Sabbath Day, not the first day of the week, because it is the belief that the Lord's Day is on Sunday, celebrating the resurrected Christ, that established Sunday worship and... as has indeed been mentioned in this thread, some do believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the Beast.
Which, if someone truly does believe that Sunday worship is the mark of the Beast, I can see why the issue would gain in great importance.
However, JMJ has the definitive answer to the OP... Jesus most assuredly rose on the first day. (Not too sure why the fact that Mary went when it was still dark is considered significant... I drive my kids to the bus stop in the dark.
Mark 16:9 isn't going to settle the "Lord's Day" controversy, but it should settle which day was Resurrection Day.
Roger that,thank ya maam.
I suspect that whether we gather in our churches for worship on Sunday is of little importance for are we not allowed or more accurately should we not worship on every day of the week? The commandment from God was to keep the Sabboth holy but it does not forbid us from worship on Sunday.
Mark 16:9 (NKJV)
Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.
Jesus rose from the dead early in the day on the first day of the week. The first day of the week is what we now call Sunday.
The only Sabbath rest that remains for Christians is the eternal rest we will enter into in heaven after we die.
Hebrews 4:11 11 (ESV)
Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Revelation 14:12-13 (ESV)
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.†“Blessed indeed,†says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!â€
Yes, Catholic means universal.
The Catholic or universal Christian faith had spread everywhere throughout the whole known world while the apostles still lived on earth. The Catholic Church was called Catholic for more than two centuries before the Council of Nicaea was convened.
St. Ignatius, disciple of John and third Bishop of Antioch, wrote the following in 107 A.D.:
Romans 1:8 (NKJV)
[ Desire to Visit Rome ] First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
The reason Paul went to the synagogue every Sabbath was because that is where many Jews were on that day and so it was a good place for him to preach to them.
You assume that everything pertaining to worship is written in the Scriptures. Why do you make this assumption? The NT Scripture Canon was not completed until the early 5th Century. Word of mouth was the main way of communication for many years in the Church for its members.
2 Thessalonians 2:15 (NKJV)
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
Sinthesis
Member
Big deal! It was scripturally necessary.
Hbr 7:12 - For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Mark 16:9 answers the OP conclusively.
Whenever Paul was able to come to a local church, regardless of the day of the week, many people gathered to hear him preach. Paul did not want any of his valuable time used for taking up collections during his preaching. So, Paul requested that collections be taken up for his ministry during the congregation's normal weekly worship time on the first day of the week when they were all gathered together for worship.
handy
Member
JMJ said:
Speaking of St. Ignatius, a man who died approx 117, he said of the Lord's Day:
As was mentioned, Ignatius was a disciple of John's and was the Bishop of Antioch. While his words are not canon, they are enough to prove that Sunday worship was established far prior to Nicea and what is now the Roman Catholic Church.
I worship God with praise on every day of the week, but most important to me, I receive His body and blood on Sunday the first day of the week so that I may have His spiritual life in me all the other days of the week also.
Matthew 13:16 (NKJV)
But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
Thank you for posting this quote. I knew it existed, but I did not have it in any documents stored on my computer. Now, I can remedy this. :waving
handy
Member
Are you familiar with this site:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html
Lot's of good stuff there!
handy
Member
One thing to keep in mind about Ignatius is how very close he was to the apostles...
There is some leeway as to his birthdate and time of death, but if we go on the late side, considering him being born approx 50AD and dying approx 117AD...think about that.
Translate that to being born in 1950 and dying in 2017... Think about how well we who came into adult hood during this time are more cognizant of what happened with things like WW2, the Great Depression, the Apollo landings, because either we were there, or we knew people who were. I didn't have to check any history books about how life was in the Great Depression, I could just ask my parents and grandparents.
This is how close Ignatius was to the apostles. It's well established that he was a disciple of John's and most likely knew other apostles as well. He didn't have to look to history to learn about what it was like when Jesus rose from the dead, or on the day of Pentecost... he could just ask those who were there.
By the same token, when he referenced meeting on Sunday, he wasn't referring to some strange custom that had slowly insinuated itself into the church long after the Apostles were gone.
When he wrote his letter to the Magnesians, and spoke of meeting on the Lord's Day, rather than the Sabbath as it was a well established practice, one that the apostles and bishops of the church would be well aware of.
There is some leeway as to his birthdate and time of death, but if we go on the late side, considering him being born approx 50AD and dying approx 117AD...think about that.
Translate that to being born in 1950 and dying in 2017... Think about how well we who came into adult hood during this time are more cognizant of what happened with things like WW2, the Great Depression, the Apollo landings, because either we were there, or we knew people who were. I didn't have to check any history books about how life was in the Great Depression, I could just ask my parents and grandparents.
This is how close Ignatius was to the apostles. It's well established that he was a disciple of John's and most likely knew other apostles as well. He didn't have to look to history to learn about what it was like when Jesus rose from the dead, or on the day of Pentecost... he could just ask those who were there.
By the same token, when he referenced meeting on Sunday, he wasn't referring to some strange custom that had slowly insinuated itself into the church long after the Apostles were gone.
When he wrote his letter to the Magnesians, and spoke of meeting on the Lord's Day, rather than the Sabbath as it was a well established practice, one that the apostles and bishops of the church would be well aware of.
I understand what Mark 16:9 says, but when you look at theaccounts of all 4 gospels, we see a few things. Matthew says they approached “in the end of the sabbath, as it began todawn toward the first dayâ€. That wouldbe Saturday around 6 PM Roman time. Theother three accounts say the women got there the first day of the week.
I believe this to be around 6 PM Saturday evening becausethat’s the only way they coincide with Matthew. Mark does say they approachedat sunrise, which appears to be different from Matthew’s account, and the othertwo don’t really offer much either way). However, all four are in harmony on one thing: when they got there hewas already gone. He didn’t rise Sundaymorning after sunrise.
In regards to Mark 16:9, I don’t have a completeanswer. The focus however, of that verseis that that’s when he appeared to Mary. In any sense, both that verse and verses 2 through 7 say he was alreadyrisen before they got there (according to the KJV).
There are other things to look at. First and foremost, the 3 days and 3 nightsproblem. I’m of the camp that says thatis what it says it is, and more specifically 72 hours. A Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrectionisn’t even close to 3 days and 3 nights. It’s only 2 nights and one day. AWednesday burial (between 3-6 PM) and a Saturday resurrection (again between3-6 PM) fit 3 days and 3 nights.
There is something else I rarely see discussed. Many people know there was a high Sabbath spokenof. This was the Passover. The big question is when Passover was. It is possible that it could’ve been on thesame day as the weekly Sabbath except for one small detail.
When did the women purchase spices for the anointing ofJesus’ body? Here is what Mark has tosay:
Mar 16:1 Andwhen the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulcher atthe rising of the sun.
This says they bought (purchased, not brought) them after the Sabbath. Let’s compare that to Luke:
Luk 23:55 And thewomen also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld thesepulcher, and how his body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day accordingto the commandment.
Here is the problem, how could they possibly purchase thespices after the Sabbath and prepare them before the Sabbath? It’s not possible unless there were two Sabbathson separate days. A high Sabbath onFriday would’ve meant back to back Sabbaths, which doesn’t allow forpreparation. The only way for them tobuy spices after the Sabbath and prepare them before a Sabbath is if the high Sabbathwas Thursday (That’s the Sabbath in Mark 16:1), buy them on Friday, then restfor the weekly Sabbath (that’s the Sabbath in Luke 23:56).
There are other reasons and small things to consider whichall must be put into the timeline. However, for it all to come together, it would have to be a Wednesday Crucifixionand a Saturday resurrection.
Yes.
You are getting the Festivals mixed up: FIRSTFRUITS of the Barley Harvest is the Festival the Messiah was resurrected on. Pentecost is the memorial of the Marraige Covenant at Mt. Sinai AND the giving of the Holy Spirit. And yes, they BOTH should be important to Christians.
The definition of "enmity" is "mutual hatred or ill-will." Law has no emotion, and even our own Judicial System emphatically stresses that "Law is free from passion." Our Constitution was based upon the Laws of God. The mutual ill-will Paul is referring to is the one that existed (and still does) between the Jews and Gentile believers, which he explains 3 verses up in Eph 2:11-13:
Therefore remember, that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called"Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants (plural!) of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near (into the house of Israel) by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, (1 group = Jews, the other group = Gentiles) and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, (the physical wall that prevented Gentiles from going into theTemple to worship) by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, (the mutual ill-will) which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two (the Jews and the Gentiles) into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both (Jews and Gentiles) in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. It was already in the Law of commandments that if a Gentile wanted to be included and have a part in the promises of God through Abraham, that he would be “adopted-in†and summarily considered "Israel." Paul is simply reiterating what the Law already said about Gentiles.
One (of many) things that make my God and King so much better than the other gods, is that His Word is faithful and true! Therefore the children (commonwealth) of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' Ex 31:16-17