He Rose On Sunday True or False

[handy]

I would like to ask... and I think I have already, but this has been a busy thread, so if it was overlooked, OK...


What difference does it make to our Sunday morning services and worshiping Jesus on the day of His resurrection, if He rose prior to midnight. Sunday is the first day of the week...it was the day that Jesus rose, even if by our modern calculation of time, our Saturday blends into the what the biblical people would recognize as Sunday.

Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Not Saturday.... We know this because the Bible tells us that He rose on the first day of the week.

Even if Jesus arose prior to midnight on Sunday, (making it technically our Saturday), He appeared to all His people and accepted their worship (specifically Thomas') on Sunday, during the day's daylight hours.

So...what is truly the heart of the issue here?

 

[thethinkingrebel]

Lewis, it was not a "heathen" custom... As Ignatius, the Apostle John's disciple states, it was the custom of the Christian to meet on Sunday, the Lord's Day...not the Sabbath Day. As I mentioned in my post above, Acts 20 shows that they were meeting on the first day of the week to break bread (have communion). Seriously, if one believes that the Jews wouldn't allow the Christians to interrupt the service to take up a collection, how much more are they going to allow the Christians to serve communion during synagogue?

They were meeting every day to break bread, it just happened that Eutychus was revived that day. If Acts 20:7 said "The middle of the week we assembled to break bread" Would church services be on a Wednesday instead? The sabbath has always been a saturday, why suddenly did it change? They broke bread and met DAILY [acts 2:46]. There was no ritual acts like we see today, nor was there a specific day to do anything other than the sabbath. The Lord's day IS the Sabbath.

Lewis, I have to think you must have overlooked the quote from Ignatius, and keep in mind he most likely wrote this around 90-100AD a mere 60+/- years after the Pentecost. Ignatius wasn't just some heretical preacher either, he was respected by the church and served as bishop of Antioch.

I'm not bothered what Ignatius believed. Thats emergent thinking and will have you literally walking round in circles trying to "experience". What matters is what the bible said, and taking verses out of context is what has caused weird practices like the eucharist. Why does nobody realise that the so-called eucharist is a MEAL. The apostles broke bread together, they didnt all meet up so they could kneel in front of an altar and have Paul place bread on their tongue, then have a cup of wine together. LOL.

I dont think it matters when the church convenes, because the Sabbath is tied to Israel, plus for 2000 years the church has made it sunday, even by pain of death. I think it does matter to discern truth from lie though.

 

[Elijah674]

I would like to ask... and I think I have already, but this has been a busy thread, so if it was overlooked, OK...


What difference does it make to our Sunday morning services and worshiping Jesus on the day of His resurrection, if He rose prior to midnight. Sunday is the first day of the week...it was the day that Jesus rose, even if by our modern calculation of time, our Saturday blends into the what the biblical people would recognize as Sunday.

Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Not Saturday.... We know this because the Bible tells us that He rose on the first day of the week.

Even if Jesus arose prior to midnight on Sunday, (making it technically our Saturday), He appeared to all His people and accepted their worship (specifically Thomas') on Sunday, during the day's daylight hours.

So...what is truly the heart of the issue here?

HI! I like your posts, so this is NOT PERSONAL in any way meant. Only God reads ones heart & LOVING MOTIVES.
OK: For the question. Because God REQUIRES HIS DAY to be the day of HIS WORSHIP.
With your [post question] one could liken it to Cain & his offering, saying Lord, (even in person) what difference does it make if I offer this fruite offering? And that is what sun worship is.

Gen. 4
[2] And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
[5] But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And LOVING Phil. 4:13 OBEDIENCE, is the only way to MATURE (Nah. 1:9) to be safe to save.

 

[Slider]

What difference does it make to our Sunday morning services and worshiping Jesus on the day of His resurrection, if He rose prior to midnight. Sunday is the first day of the week...it was the day that Jesus rose, even if by our modern calculation of time, our Saturday blends into the what the biblical people would recognize as Sunday.

Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. Not Saturday.... We know this because the Bible tells us that He rose on the first day of the week.

Even if Jesus arose prior to midnight on Sunday, (making it technically our Saturday), He appeared to all His people and accepted their worship (specifically Thomas') on Sunday, during the day's daylight hours.

So...what is truly the heart of the issue here?

It doesn't matter which day of the week we worship. Sunday is a pretty good day of the week because it is the first day of the week. So by going to Church on that day, the first thing of significance you've done that week if praise God. But I don't see it as a requirement. People who think we still must keep the Sabbath (and I actually do go to Church on Saturdays) forget what Col 2:16 says (Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days'


As for what day the resurrection was, it is important for one reason only.... John 4:24 says we must worship in spirit and in truth. The most important thing in how we worship is TRUTH! You can say "spirit" is most important if you like, and that's fine. But if so, then truth is the second thing. If he died on Wednesday and rose on Saturday, that's what we should celebrate. If he did not die on Friday and raise on SUnday, we should have nothing to do with it.

In regards to you still believing that he rose Sunday (which is most likely from Mark 16:9), then it doesn't line up with the other accounts (especially Matthew) and leaves a lot of holes and things unnaccounted for.

However, I mentioned this before... The verse says, "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary...". The emphasis is not on when Jesus was risen, but when he appeared to Mary. Jesus visited Mary early the first day of the week, and did so after he had risen.

Someone posted a bar graph and a website that talked about this. The website made the very same point. They also pointed out that the original didn't have punctuation, and seemed to hint that the KJV translators should've put a comma inbetween "risen" and "early". I'm not so bold to say it was an error, but their conclusion is the same as mine.

I do not have an answer to Mark 16:2, but all four accounts, despite what time the women got to the tomb, say he was already gone. If you'd like to keep referring to Mark 16:9, (and I've explained it the best I could...) then I will refer to Matthew 28:1 which says he was already gone by sundown Saturday.

 

[JMJ]

Yes.

You are getting the Festivals mixed up: FIRSTFRUITS of the Barley Harvest is the Festival the Messiah was resurrected on. Pentecost is the memorial of the Marraige Covenant at Mt. Sinai AND the giving of the Holy Spirit. And yes, they BOTH should be important to Christians.

Oops, I goofed. I should have proofread better. You are correct. I should have said, "The Resurrection is indeed the festival/feast of First Fruits and this is a very important feast day for Christians and it is especially important for the Messianic Jews." Thank you for notifying me of my error.

Pentecost is the old Greek and Latin name for the Jewish harvest festival, or Festival of Weeks (Hebrew חג השבועותHag haShavuot or Shevuot, literally "Festival of Weeks"), which commemorates God giving the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai fifty days after the Exodus.[4]

The definition of "enmity" is "mutual hatred or ill-will." Law has no emotion, and even our own Judicial System emphatically stresses that "Law is free from passion." Our Constitution was based upon the Laws of God. The mutual ill-will Paul is referring to is the one that existed (and still does) between the Jews and Gentile believers, which he explains 3 verses up in Eph 2:11-13:

I agree with what you are saying. That is why Paul stated:

Galatians 3:28 (NKJV)
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Therefore remember, that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called"Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants (plural!) of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near (into the house of Israel) by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, (1 group = Jews, the other group = Gentiles) and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, (the physical wall that prevented Gentiles from going into theTemple to worship) by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, (the mutual ill-will) which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two (the Jews and the Gentiles) into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both (Jews and Gentiles) in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. It was already in the Law of commandments that if a Gentile wanted to be included and have a part in the promises of God through Abraham, that he would be “adopted-in” and summarily considered "Israel." Paul is simply reiterating what the Law already said about Gentiles.
One (of many) things that make my God and King so much better than the other gods, is that His Word is faithful and true! Therefore the children (commonwealth) of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' Ex 31:16-17

Forever only lasts as long as the particular covenant lasts. A covenant is no longer in force when one of the parties involved in the covenant breaks it.

The Old Covenant has been fulfilled/completed/finished. Jesus finished the Old Covenant and established His new eternal covenant with His sacrificial death and so the Old Covenant is no longer in force.

The Old Covenant Sabbath celebrated God resting from His labors of creation.

The New Covenant Lord's Day on the first day of the week will culminate in the perpetual banquet in heaven when all the righteous members of mankind will enter their eternal rest away from the tribulations of earth.

Hebrews 4:11 (NKJV)
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

Revelation 14:12-13 (NKJV)
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. 13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

 

[JMJ]

You missed the part about Him being already gone while it was still dark...

John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
2Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the LORD out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

He was already gone.

In late March or early April, the sun does not rise very early in the morning so it could easily have been dark when Mary Magdalene arrived early at the tomb on the first day of the week.

We cannot get around this incontrovertible fact:

Mark 16:9 (NKJV)
Now when He [Jesus Christ] rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.

Mark clearly states that Jesus Christ rose early [from the dead implied] on the first day of the week.

Luke 24:7 (NKJV)
saying, ‘The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.’â€

Matthew 27:64 NKJV
Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first.â€

Jesus Christ's stay in the grave and resurrection was definitely prefigured by Jonah's stay in the fish's belly and his release even though the "three days and three nights" attention-getting slogan used to connect the two events is not necessarily exactly, literally true:

Matthew 12:40 NKJV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The same words [three days and three nights] are used to make the teaching connection between the two events even though these words are not exactly literally true for both events.

I believe what Mark stated:

Mark 16:9 (NKJV)
Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.

All other Scriptures pertaining to this same event must acquiesce to this very clear statement.

 

[JMJ]

Are you familiar with this site:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html

Lot's of good stuff there!

Thank you for the link. Much appreciated.

 

[JMJ]

Someone help me out on the ultimate point here.

If we are going to stick with the Saturday night, because the Jewish Sabbath was from sun down on Friday night to sundown on Saturday night... and the first day began on sundown Saturday night (which I agree with)... then Jesus rose on Sunday, not the Sabbath.

This doesn't in any way remove Sunday from being resurrection day.

As of this moment, as I was typing here, the sun went down. According to Jewish calendars, it's now Saturday. 24 hours from now will be Sunday, the first day of the week.

If one wants to hold to the Jewish tradition of time-keeping, then by all means, keep the Sabbath from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday...but that still leaves one with needing to acknowledge that Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday.

Mary Magdalene et al could have easily bought/purchased the burial spices on Saturday evening, after the Sabbath was completed at sundown on Saturday, in order to use them early the next morning:

Mark 16:1-3 NKJV
[ He Is Risen ] Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. 3 And they said among themselves, “Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?”

 

[Elijah674]

It doesn't matter which day of the week we worship. Sunday is a pretty good day of the week because it is the first day of the week. So by going to Church on that day, the first thing of significance you've done that week if praise God. But I don't see it as a requirement. People who think we still must keep the Sabbath (and I actually do go to Church on Saturdays) forget what Col 2:16 says (Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days'


As for what day the resurrection was, it is important for one reason only.... John 4:24 says we must worship in spirit and in truth. The most important thing in how we worship is TRUTH! You can say "spirit" is most important if you like, and that's fine. But if so, then truth is the second thing. If he died on Wednesday and rose on Saturday, that's what we should celebrate. If he did not die on Friday and raise on SUnday, we should have nothing to do with it.

In regards to you still believing that he rose Sunday (which is most likely from Mark 16:9), then it doesn't line up with the other accounts (especially Matthew) and leaves a lot of holes and things unnaccounted for.

However, I mentioned this before... The verse says, "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary...". The emphasis is not on when Jesus was risen, but when he appeared to Mary. Jesus visited Mary early the first day of the week, and did so after he had risen.

Someone posted a bar graph and a website that talked about this. The website made the very same point. They also pointed out that the original didn't have punctuation, and seemed to hint that the KJV translators should've put a comma inbetween "risen" and "early". I'm not so bold to say it was an error, but their conclusion is the same as mine.

I do not have an answer to Mark 16:2, but all four accounts, despite what time the women got to the tomb, say he was already gone. If you'd like to keep referring to Mark 16:9, (and I've explained it the best I could...) then I will refer to Matthew 28:1 which says he was already gone by sundown Saturday.

Hi, I need Bible verses that say that when God says that it is HIS COMMAND, He then says as your post reads? Mal. 3:6 + Heb. 13:8 does not agree with the [post].

Mal. 3
[6] For I am the LORD, I change not;..' O.T.

Heb. 13
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. N.T.

And John 15:10 finds whose Commandments they are.
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


Also the MOTIVE for OBEDIENCE! John 14:15
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[Free]

Jesus rose on the first day of the week...so that would be saturday night.

Or Sunday morning.

 

[handy]

I had asked earlier what the issue is here and for all who answered that it's about the truth of what actually happened: Answer acknowledged! :nod

I do not have an answer to Mark 16:2, but all four accounts, despite what time the women got to the tomb, say he was already gone. If you'd like to keep referring to Mark 16:9, (and I've explained it the best I could...) then I will refer to Matthew 28:1 which says he was already gone by sundown Saturday.

I don't see Matthew 28:1 saying that He was "already gone by sundown Saturday".

Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. Matthew 28:1

"as it began to dawn" epiphosko: to grow light, to dawn.

Last I looked out the window, there is a long time between sundown and first morning light. I'm not sure how you are getting from this verse that Jesus was already gone by sundown on Saturday. Especially since this would make His resurrection taking place on the last day of the week, and Mark specifically states that it takes place on the first day of the week.

Mary Magdalene et al could have easily bought/purchased the burial spices on Saturday evening, after the Sabbath was completed at sundown on Saturday, in order to use them early the next morning:

Mark 16:1-3 NKJV
[ He Is Risen ] Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. 3 And they said among themselves, “Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?â€

Very good point. I'm sure it's quite probable that women bought the spices on Saturday, after sundown.

 

[JMJ]

One (of many) things that make my God and King so much better than the other gods, is that His Word is faithful and true! Therefore the children (commonwealth) of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' Ex 31:16-17

Genesis1:20-31 NKJV
Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.†21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.†23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kindâ€; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.†27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.â€

29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for foodâ€; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

The Jews believed and still do believe that the Biblical timeline for humans began with the ensoulment of Adam on the sixth day of creation. It is at this time at Adam's ensoulment that the days are now divided into the 24 hour segments of time that we are familiar with today.

So, the first six days of creation could have lasted billions of years until Adam received his soul at the end of the sixth day after all the other creatures were created. And, God rested on the seventh day after he was finished with creation.

2 Peter 3:8 NKJV
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[JMJ]

Yes Dora I know that the custom was already there. It was a heathen custom first, and was allowed into the Catholic church. But it was already there which I have known for years.

Sunday is the Lord's Day. He promulgated it Himself. The Catholic Church continues it as He commanded.

 

[JMJ]

I do not have an answer to Mark 16:2, but all four accounts, despite what time the women got to the tomb, say he was already gone. If you'd like to keep referring to Mark 16:9, (and I've explained it the best I could...) then I will refer to Matthew 28:1 which says he was already gone by sundown Saturday.

Matthew 28:1 NKJV 28 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Dawn is the time of day that marks the beginning of the twilight before sunrise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn

Mark 16:9 NKJV
9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.

Mark is telling us the truth. Jesus Christ rose from the dead early in the day before dawn on the first day of the week, which is the day we now call Sunday. I believe him!

 

[JMJ]

Jesus rose on the first day of the week...so that would be saturday night.

The first day of the week is not Saturday. Saturday is the seventh day of the week. The first day of the week is Sunday. The Sabbath rest was from evening sunset on Friday to evening sunset on Saturday, but the Jews do not ever say that the Sabbath is on the sixth day, Friday. They say it is on the seventh day of the week.

http://judaism.about.com/od/sabbathdayshabb2/

 

[Webers_Home]

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[Webers_Home]

.

So, the first six days of creation could have lasted billions of years until Adam received his soul at the end of the sixth day after all the other creatures were created. And, God rested on the seventh day after he was finished with creation

I wonder how many Bible students have ever noticed that the seventh day isn't bounded by an evening and a morning? Curious isn't it.

Cliff
/

 

[handy]

Oh, I agree Cliff.

As a matter of fact, I could give a pretty good case on the fact that if one is a Christian, one is in fact in the Sabbath rest... as the sacrifices ended with Christ's sacrifice, we are ushered into the New Covenant of Sabbath rest...

...but that's a whole other topic!

 

[Slider]

Hi, I need Bible verses that say that when God says that it is HIS COMMAND, He then says as your post reads? Mal. 3:6 + Heb. 13:8 does not agree with the [post].

Mal. 3
[6] For I am the LORD, I change not;..' O.T.

Heb. 13
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. N.T.

And John 15:10 finds whose Commandments they are.
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


Also the MOTIVE for OBEDIENCE! John 14:15
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What?????

 

[handy]

I've been re-reading parts of this very long thread...

...and one thing I hadn't really taken note of before is how some have fixed themselves on a "72 hour" time frame, as if the Bible states that Jesus was in the grave for 72 hours.

Nowhere in the Bible is the term 72 hours used. Jesus said that He would be in the grave for three days and three nights. Elsewhere, Jesus said that He would rise on the third day. The fact that He was going to rise on the third day (not the beginning of the forth) means that we automatically have something less than 72 hours to work with.

We also know that Jesus rose early on the third day. So, the 72 hours is shortened even more so.

I think if some let go of the erroneous idea that Jesus said, "I will be in the ground for 72 hours" instead of saying what He actually said which was"

“An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Since Jesus arose on the third day, and early... sometime before dawn...we must understand that Jesus was using the "sign of Jonah" as a metaphor. It's always a mistake to take metaphors literally... which is at the heart of some of the theories put forth here.