Heb 10:14 teaches eternal security

[FreeGrace]

Here is another verse that speaks of eternal security:
Heb 10:14
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. NIV

"has made perfect" is in the perfect tense, which means a completed action in the past with continuing results. Then, the writer added "forever" to seal the deal. The completed action of being made perfect goes on FOREVER.

And to whom is this describing? To "those who are being made holy". Present tense.

The phrase 'those who are being made holy' refers to believers and the progressive sanctification process of spiritual growth.

So, even as believers are "being made holy" via the sanctification process, they are ALREADY MADE PERFECT.

So, to those who still think that salvation can be lost, please explain how this verse doesn't teach eternal security.

Or, just explain what it does teach.

 

[daninthelionsden]

There will always be the choice to walk away.

 

[Mike S]

Resistible Grace, or irresistible Grace, that is the question. "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the..." Never mind.

 

[gr8grace3]

There will always be the choice to walk away.

How about addressing the verse in question? I would appreciate your interpretation of it.

We sure do have a choice to walk away. But this verse clearly says not from His perfect eternal life.

 

[gr8grace3]

Resistible Grace, or irresistible Grace, that is the question. "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the..." Never mind.

Wouldn't mind seeing your take on the verse in question either. The OP actually has nothing to do with the "I" of the calvinist bent theory of their precious TULIP.

 

[gr8grace3]

Here is another verse that speaks of eternal security:
Heb 10:14
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. NIV

"has made perfect" is in the perfect tense, which means a completed action in the past with continuing results. Then, the writer added "forever" to seal the deal. The completed action of being made perfect goes on FOREVER.

And to whom is this describing? To "those who are being made holy". Present tense.

The phrase 'those who are being made holy' refers to believers and the progressive sanctification process of spiritual growth.

So, even as believers are "being made holy" via the sanctification process, they are ALREADY MADE PERFECT.

So, to those who still think that salvation can be lost, please explain how this verse doesn't teach eternal security.

Or, just explain what it does teach.

Amen.
What often get's overlooked is that "one" sacrifice........ Was unique. Like none other. It accomplished unimaginable things from a human view point.......like union with Christ. Christ IN you. Being His body.

We sadly, have bunches of believers who still view that UNIQUE sacrifice from a human view point and not the divine viewpoint.

How arrogant of me to think my sinning less and "fruits" or active faith replaces His unique and masterful sacrifice.

 

[Mike S]

Wouldn't mind seeing your take on the verse in question either. The OP actually has nothing to do with the "I" of the calvinist bent theory of their precious TULIP.

I agree with the OP as to Christ's sacrifice being sufficient for the forgiveness of all, for all time. But, I do think the verse is seen by many as referring to the irresistible nature of God's Grace.

 

[FreeGrace]

There will always be the choice to walk away.

How does this translate into loss of salvation, if that's your point? And even those who have fallen away, does Heb 10:14 simply not apply? And if not, please explain where Scripture teaches that it doesn't apply.

 

[FreeGrace]

Resistible Grace, or irresistible Grace, that is the question. "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the..." Never mind.

Not really. Either Heb 10:14 is true, or not. Since we already know Scripture is true, what does the verse mean, if not eternal security?

That's the question. Can you provide an answer?

 

[Mike S]

Not really. Either Heb 10:14 is true, or not. Since we already know Scripture is true, what does the verse mean, if not eternal security?

That's the question. Can you provide an answer?

It means Christ's sacrifice and resurrection is the one sufficient sacrifice that frees us all, past, present, and future, from sin. It's a matter of interpretation as to whether God's sanctifying Grace is resistible or not. And, please don't tell me there is no such thing as interpreting scripture.

 

[Runner]

By coincidence, last night I started through the New Testament on my Kindle, highlighting verses that pretty clearly suggest OSAS and those that pretty clearly suggest OS-Not-AS. I didn't even get through the Gospel of John (my starting point) before I had a fair sampling of both. Why not just admit that this is one of those doctrines for which a plausible argument can be made in either direction? Perhaps it makes me a lukewarm Christian, but both positions seem to me to have approximately equal biblical support. Which one is convincing to a particular believer is going to depend on his or her understanding of other doctrines and overall perspective on Jesus and His work. I don't believe a "correct" answer and a "wrong" answer can be derived from a "my Bible verses vs. your Bible verses" type of debate.

 

[Mike S]

By coincidence, last night I started through the New Testament on my Kindle, highlighting verses that pretty clearly suggest OSAS and those that pretty clearly suggest OS-Not-AS. I didn't even get through the Gospel of John (my starting point) before I had a fair sampling of both. Why not just admit that this is one of those doctrines for which a plausible argument can be made in either direction? Perhaps it makes me a lukewarm Christian, but both positions seem to me to have , it is one of the approximately equal biblical support. Which one is convincing to a particular believer is going to depend on his or her understanding of other doctrines and overall perspective on Jesus and His work. I don't believe a "correct" answer and a "wrong" answer can be derived from a "my Bible verses vs. your Bible verses" type of debate.

I agree.

There are mysteries to our faith that I'm willing to live with.

 

[chessman]

Heb 10:14 is the authors' interpretation of Jeremiah 31.

Jeremiah 31:3, 9, 20, 34 (LEB) From afar Yahweh appeared to me, saying, “I have loved you with an everlasting love. Therefore I have drawn you with loyal love.
With weeping they will come, and with pleas for mercy I will bring them; I will let them walk by streams of water in a straight path. They will not stumble in it, for I have become to Israel a father, and Ephraim, he is my firstborn.” Is Ephraim my dear son, or the child of my delight? For as often as I have earnestly spoken against him, I still remember him. Therefore my bowels are turbulent for him, surely I will have compassion on him,” declares Yahweh.
And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor, or each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Yahweh,’ for all of them will know me, from their smallest and up to their greatest,” declares Yahweh, “for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember.” ​

 

[Mike S]

Heb 10:14 is the authors' interpretation of Jeriimah 31.

Jeremiah 31:3, 9, 20, 34 (LEB) From afar Yahweh appeared to me, saying, “I have loved you with an everlasting love. Therefore I have drawn you with loyal love.
With weeping they will come, and with pleas for mercy I will bring them; I will let them walk by streams of water in a straight path. They will not stumble in it, for I have become to Israel a father, and Ephraim, he is my firstborn.” Is Ephraim my dear son, or the child of my delight? For as often as I have earnestly spoken against him, I still remember him. Therefore my bowels are turbulent for him, surely I will have compassion on him,” declares Yahweh.
And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor, or each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Yahweh,’ for all of them will know me, from their smallest and up to their greatest,” declares Yahweh, “for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember.” ​

Thanks.

 

[WIP]

By coincidence, last night I started through the New Testament on my Kindle, highlighting verses that pretty clearly suggest OSAS and those that pretty clearly suggest OS-Not-AS. I didn't even get through the Gospel of John (my starting point) before I had a fair sampling of both. Why not just admit that this is one of those doctrines for which a plausible argument can be made in either direction? Perhaps it makes me a lukewarm Christian, but both positions seem to me to have approximately equal biblical support. Which one is convincing to a particular believer is going to depend on his or her understanding of other doctrines and overall perspective on Jesus and His work. I don't believe a "correct" answer and a "wrong" answer can be derived from a "my Bible verses vs. your Bible verses" type of debate.

I admittedly agree with you as well but I think, if I understand correctly, the reason for wanting to debate this topic is to gain a deeper understanding into the personhood of God. Our goal as Christians is to become more like Christ and to do that we need to get to know Him at a deeper and deeper level. In this way I do understand the reason for this type of discussion. It seems we struggle to have this discussion while remaining respectful of each other.

On a related note, I once did study to see how many times we find Scripture references to God wanting us to know Him. Using the NKJV I found 133 references in the Old Testament to God declaring who He was. Statements like, "I am God” or “I am the Lord” or “I am your Shield” or “I am your salvation.” I also found 134 references to God declaring, “I will be known” or “so that you/they will know that I am Lord/God” or “Know Me.” Finally, in the New Testament I found 30 references where Jesus made similar statements. If we allow ourselves to become complacent and stop trying to really know Him, where will that lead?

 

[gr8grace3]

I agree.

There are mysteries to our faith that I'm willing to live with.

Knowing we are eternally secure in Christ Is a FUNDAMENTAL truth in advancing in the Christian way of life. It is far from a mystery.

John 5:24. Study this verse. It is not salvation. It is eternal security. If we don't believe Him Who sent Jesus Christ and what He told us about our security in Him.................We do not advance in the Christian way of life. Yes, we may have a lot of scripture memorized, have our lives cleaned up,gave a lot of money, Say we love Jesus 1000000000 times, sacrificed our time,talent and treasure. And it will all be for naught if we never got our salvation figured out.

Eternal security~~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Too many believers don't believe what the Father did for them. So their eternal life is questionable to them. They think that they might come into judgement, They think that death may still have a hold on them.

 

[Mike S]

Knowing we are eternally secure in Christ Is a FUNDAMENTAL truth in advancing in the Christian way of life. It is far from a mystery.

John 5:24. Study this verse. It is not salvation. It is eternal security. If we don't believe Him Who sent Jesus Christ and what He told us about our security in Him.................We do not advance in the Christian way of life. Yes, we may have a lot of scripture memorized, have our lives cleaned up,gave a lot of money, Say we love Jesus 1000000000 times, sacrificed our time,talent and treasure. And it will all be for naught if we never got our salvation figured out.

Eternal security~~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

To many believers don't believe what the Father did for them. So their eternal life is questionable to them. They think that they might come into judgement, They think that death may still have a hold on them.

There are about 33,000 different Christian denominations that disagree with you on at least one doctrinal issue. I'll leave their understand of God as a matter between them and God. For me, well, yes there are mysteries, and I'm not concerned about not having all the answers. For now we see as through a glass, darkly.

 

[gr8grace3]

By coincidence, last night I started through the New Testament on my Kindle, highlighting verses that pretty clearly suggest OSAS and those that pretty clearly suggest OS-Not-AS. I didn't even get through the Gospel of John (my starting point) before I had a fair sampling of both. Why not just admit that this is one of those doctrines for which a plausible argument can be made in either direction? Perhaps it makes me a lukewarm Christian, but both positions seem to me to have approximately equal biblical support. Which one is convincing to a particular believer is going to depend on his or her understanding of other doctrines and overall perspective on Jesus and His work. I don't believe a "correct" answer and a "wrong" answer can be derived from a "my Bible verses vs. your Bible verses" type of debate.

So, if eternal security is not true and loss of salvation is not true. What's the truth then?

If we have an innocent man in court. Can the prosecution bring in evidence to prove him guilty? NO. They can bring in a plausible argument, but they can have no evidence of guilt for that innocent man. He remains innocent, no matter what the argument is. The truth is the truth........even if we can't see it.

 

[Runner]

So, if eternal security is not true and loss of salvation is not true. What's the truth then?

If we have an innocent man in court. Can the prosecution bring in evidence to prove him guilty? NO. They can bring in a plausible argument, but they can have no evidence of guilt for that innocent man. He remains innocent, no matter what the argument is. The truth is the truth........even if we can't see it.

Obviously, there is truth. It may be OSAS, OS-Not-AS or perhaps some permutation that we don't presently grasp. My point is that if the Bible is your source of truth, the reality is that the Bible contains multiple verses that support both positions. Those who hold a contrary position are not going to be driven into submission by "your" Bible verses because they have "their" Bible verses, which happen to fit better with their understanding of other verses and doctrines and their overall Christian perspective.

Your analogy is interesting, because in many cases the prosecution does have evidence that seemingly establishes to a near certainty the guilt of someone who is, in fact, innocent. It is rare that there is not at least some evidence pointing in both directions. The judge or jury ultimately has to decide which body of evidence to accept - just as a Christian must do when Bible verses point in more than one direction. The judge or jury must accept that the decision may be wrong, even to the extent of an innocent man dying by lethal injection. I at least am content with accepting this uncertainty about some doctrines and with leading my life on the basis of my view as to which interpretation best fits with my understanding of other verses and doctrines and overall Christian perspective - recognizing that I could be wrong.

I'm not saying the discussion is pointless or worthless, but I do think it tends in that direction if the parties view their mission as convincing those with a contrary position they are "wrong."

 

[FreeGrace]

It means Christ's sacrifice and resurrection is the one sufficient sacrifice that frees us all, past, present, and future, from sin. It's a matter of interpretation as to whether God's sanctifying Grace is resistible or not. And, please don't tell me there is no such thing as interpreting scripture.

This doesn't address the OP. Does Heb 10:14 teach or at least indicate eternal security or not? If not, please explain why not. Thanks.