Where any of them addressed to me? I don't generally involve discussions with others.
They were in other threads. I just enetered this thread.
This just proves my point. The argument is NOT reasonable, for Paul did NOT say God's gifts TO ISRAEL. Without adjectives, Paul clearly referred to all of God's gifts. At least the ones he had already described within that same letter.
It's determined by context. In Romans 9-11 Paul is speaking of specific promises. He said the promises are the fathers, meaning Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. He said, this is the word of promise and he goes on to explain it.
And Paul specifically described both justification and eternal life as gifts of God.
That doesn't necessitate that every occurrence of the word gifts refers to those specific gifts. He explained that gifts that he was talking about.
Sure. The gifts are based on believing. So what? Once given, they are irrevocable. There is NO condition on being irrevocable, as you're tying to SPIN IT.
If you study the promises you'll find otherwise.
This NEVER has been an argument about a promse to be saved. It's a promise that gifts that God gives are irrevocable. Your argument isn't even reasonable.
The argument is not only reasonable, it's right there in the context.
I see it very clearly. God's gifts are irrevocable. Once given, He will NEVER revoke.
God's promises are irrevocable to Abraham. God swore an oath to Abraham, that's why His promises are irrevocable.
These aren't promises that are irrevocable. That is unreasonable.
It's not unreasonable. It's the context. That why I keep asking for the passages to be explained in context.
[/quote]Please show any verse that describes ANY promise of God as a "gift". I can save a lot of time by just saying that no where in Scripture is that said.[/quote]
The word Charisma means favor or to bestow favor. Those promises are God bestowing favor on Abraham.
The argument that the gifts mentioned in 11:29 refer to promises made is just absurd. Gifts are NOT promises. Where would anyone get that notion??
Paul didn't write the word "gifts," he wrote charisma. It means favor. Giving a gift to someone is showing them favor, thus the word is translated gifts.
I read every single word in this passage and did NOT find the word "gift" or "gifts" anywhere in the passage.
So, what's the relevance of this passage to
Rom 11:29? Nothing.
Once again, the gifts of 11:29 are NOT promises.
OK, I found "promise/s" twice, but so what? There was NO mention of "gift/s".
Paul was speaking directly about GIFTS, NOT promises in 11:29. Apparently, you're not reading very clearly. But it's plain as day.
I will repeat: Paul was NOT referring to any promises in 11:29. He was plainly speaking about the gifts of God. Not the promises of God.
Such an argument thoroughly weakens your position. You've not even got the right words from the text. No wonder your position is so unbiblical.
One of the promises to Abraham was the Land promise.
14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. (Gen. 13:14-17 KJV)
God had promised this land to Abraham. However, he never received it during his life. The land was promised to Abraham and his seed. The same promise was made to Isaac and Jacob.
And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (Gen. 26:1-5 KJV)
And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.
2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.
3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;1
4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham. (Gen. 28:1-4 KJV)
Here Isaac blessed Jacob and he said, 'and God give the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land.' The "blessing of Abraham", as we see here is to inherit the land that God promised to Abraham. This phrase only appears twice in Scripture. Once here and once when Paul applies it to the Gentiles.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.1
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.(Gal. 3:9-29 KJV)
We can see from what Paul said here that, "the blessing of Abraham," the land, comes to the Gentiles through faith in Christ. In verse 16 Paul points out that the promise was made to Abraham and His Seed who is Christ. The inheritance of the land belongs to Christ and Abraham. Paul said that those who are of faith in Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. The inheritance is a gift. No believer has any right to it other than God has given it to those who would believe on Christ. Everything that God has promised to Abraham is a gift. God didn't own Abraham anything.
