Hell is eternal with final proof!

[DRS81]

Isa 66:22-24 and Mark 9:43-48 are using Idiomatic language. Mark 9:43-48 is proof that Gehenna is eternal.

Mark 9:43-48 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44]b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46]c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where “ ‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’

Isa. 66:22-24 "For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain. 23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD. 24 "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

 

[Willie T]

Well, just taking a quick look at the verses in Mark..... Are there going to be amputees and one-eyed people running around The Kingdom of God?
I mean, since you seem to be trying to be literal, here.

 

[DRS81]

Well, just taking a quick look at the verses in Mark..... Are there going to be amputees and one-eyed people running around The Kingdom of God?
I mean, since you seem to be trying to be literal, here.

Of course not, It is better for thee to enter into life maimed: not that there will be any such thing, as upon the resurrection, going into heaven without a limb; for the words are to be understood, not literally, but figuratively; and the sense is, it is better to part with every thing here, that is detrimental to a man's doing, or enjoying, what is spiritually good, and enter into eternal life.

 

[Willie T]

Of course not, It is better for thee to enter into life maimed: not that there will be any such thing, as upon the resurrection, going into heaven without a limb; for the words are to be understood, not literally, but figuratively; and the sense is, it is better to part with every thing here, that is detrimental to a man's doing, or enjoying, what is spiritually good, and enter into eternal life.

Oh, OK............................. I think I get it now. It's alright for the words selectively chosen to be figurative, but the ones we want to say Hell and Fire forever have to be taken literally? Interesting way to read Scripture.

 

[DRS81]

Oh, OK............................. I think I get it now. It's alright for the words selectively chosen to be figurative, but the ones we want to say Hell and Fire have to be taken literally? Interesting way to read Scripture.

You obviously are still on the basics?

 

[Willie T]

You obviously are still on the basics?

I guess so. I haven't yet learned to take a passage, and call half of it figurative, and yet declare that the few following sentences finishing up that passage are literal.

 

[DRS81]

I guess so. I haven't yet learned to take a passage, and call half of it figurative, and yet declare that the few following sentences finishing up that passage are literal.

Mark 9 is specific with it's place, and that is hell. Do you understand what figurative language is and why it is used.

 

[Willie T]

Maybe you are seeing something I am not. Can you give me some examples of how your eyes and hands or feet would offend a person (cause you to stumble) in a manner that would earn a believer a trip to hell?

 

[KevinK]

Aren't these already well-known passages? Nothing really new here. Unquenchable fires, undying worms,.... Yep, heard about them.

 

[Willie T]

Aren't these already well-known passages? Nothing really new here. Unquenchable fires, undying worms,.... Yep, heard about them.

You've also heard, "My God, why hath thou forsaken me?" Yet, the Bible clearly tells us that Jesus was never forsaken, not even for a moment.

 

[DRS81]

Maybe you are seeing something I am not. Can you give me some examples of how your eyes and hands or feet would offend a person (cause you to stumble) in a manner that would earn a believer a trip to hell?

First off, a born again christian will never go to hell, once saved always saved.
Secondly, he's using these examples as a metaphor to describe impure inclinations.
The hand, or the foot, or the eye represents any instrument by which sin may be committed,
and it applies to those who may be the means of drawing us into sin. That is all.

 

[Willie T]

Time to go walk the dog... Later.

 

[KevinK]

To be honest, I think Jesus was speaking in a literal sense here. If you use your hand to steal, better to chop it off than to go to Hell. If you look at pornography all day, better to pluck out your own eye than risk damnation. If you gossip and spread rumors, better to rip out your own tongue. You get the idea.

I also think that no matter what shape your physical body was in, if you make it to Heaven you will be given a new, whole spiritual body.

 

[DRS81]

To be honest, I think Jesus was speaking in a literal sense here. If you use your hand to steal, better to chop it off than to go to Hell. If you look at pornography all day, better to pluck out your own eye than risk damnation. If you gossip and spread rumors, better to rip out your own tongue. You get the idea.

No he was only being figurative. There's no need to add to scripture implying that it's saying more when it's not.

 

[KevinK]

No he was only being figurative. There's no need to add to scripture implying that it's saying more when it's not.

It's odd in that I have always been inclined to interpret much of Jesus' quotes as parables, not to be taken literally. This is one of the relative few admonitions in which I think he was being absolutely literal.

 

[jocor]

Isa 66:22-24 and Mark 9:43-48 are using Idiomatic language. Mark 9:43-48 is proof that Gehenna is eternal.

Mark 9:43-48 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44]b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46]c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where “ ‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’

Isa. 66:22-24 "For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain. 23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD. 24 "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.​

John the Baptist said the fires of judgment were "unquenchable" (Matthew 3:12). Yeshua implied the same in Matthew 25:41 where he calls it "everlasting fire" and Jude said the fire that fell on Sodom and Gomorrah was "eternal fire." Did they mean the fire will burn forever along with the living wicked? In Jeremiah 17:27, Yahweh says He will kindle a fire in Jerusalem that "shall not be quenched" because Israel refused to hallow His Sabbath. This fire was literally fulfilled in 2 Chronicles 36:19-21. Is Jerusalem still burning today? Obviously not. Is Sodom and Gomorrah still burning today? No. "Unquenchable," "everlasting," and "eternal" fire mean the fire will not be put out or go out until it has served its purpose, that is, to consume totally whatever it was suppose to burn. That this fire of judgment will go out can be seen in the following verse; Isaiah 47:14; " Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." Eventually the smoldering coals will grow cold and the fire will go out. There won't be any flame left to warm the hands of those who sit before it.

What about those who are cast into the fire? Will they be tormented forever without being consumed or dying? We just saw, in Isaiah, that the wicked will turn to stubble in the fire. Now look at Psalm 37:10,20; "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be : yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. . . But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of Yahweh shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." The wicked "shall not be". In other words, they will not exist. They will be totally consumed by the fire, their smoke dispersed by the wind.

Consider also Malachi 4:1,3; " For, behold, the day comes, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that comes shall burn them up, saith Yahweh of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. . .And you shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith Yahweh of hosts." The fate of the wicked will be to burn to stubble, ashes, and smoke, never to exist again. Their judgment will be eternal. It will last forever.

 

[turnorburn]

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

tob

 

[TimothyW]

I respectfully disagree that the lost do not perish in hell. John 3:16, Romans 6::23. Whoever believes in him shall not perish, and the wages of sin is death. Isaiah even says in 66:24 that the worms are eating the dead bodies of the slain. These dead people are not conscious.

 

[jocor]

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

tob

This is referring to people that are still living on earth after taking the mark. It does not refer to people suffering eternal torment in hell.

 

[Sinthesis]

The verses use figurative language, otherwise we have the inescapable conclusion that the Worms of Hell are granted eternal life.

Their figurative meaning is one should be willing to sacrifice their worldly works, paths, or perceptions if those things conflict with the Gospel of Christ. The alternative is choosing to place our love for those things ahead of Jesus' doctrine, which can lead to damnation.