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Hell is eternal with final proof!

Hi Tob
turnorburn said:
Then you believe a doctrine that blasphemes Jesus that makes his sufferings all for naught.. that false teacher that brought you to this point has you mocking God Timothy..

tob
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Can you please explain why you believe that since I believe that whosoever believes in the Son of God will not perish, that I am "mocking God"? I'm not following your logic here. It seems to me that I am honoring God by believing what He said.
 
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turnorburn said:
Its because that doctrine is not the gospel of Jesus Christ Timothy...

tob
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I disagree. It is the gospel that He said as recorded by John: For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him shall not Perish but will have eternal life. Could it be possible that you don't fully understand the doctrine of immortality in Christ? (Conditional Immortality)
Do you have any specific questions that I can answer to help?
 
turnorburn said:
Don't know if this is off topic but it has to do with the topic.. The Judgment Seat Of Christ a video made by a man of God that will be truly missed.. Leonard Ravenhill


tob
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Turn,

You have so blessed and encouraged me with that link to Leonard Ravenhill's sermon on 'The Judgment Seat of Christ', that I'm convicted to examine my entire Christian life in light of the biblical principles that Leonard proclaimed. I have just finished listening to it in its entirety.

I have these books of Ravenhill's in my library:
Why Revival Tarries
Revival Praying
Revival God's Way
Sodom Had No Bible
Meat for Men

He went home to be with the Lord in 1994 at the age of 87. What an influence he has had on so many people in his proclamation of the Gospel. There is a reasonable outline of his ministry on Wikipedia at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Ravenhill

But more importantly, in line with the theme of this thread, he proclaims the nature of judgement before God of all people and what happens to unbelievers after death in Hades and then Gehenna. He uses the language of hell.

I bless you for providing such an important link for me to be blessed and challenged by it.

Oz
 
DRS81 said:
What are your thoughts on Rev 20:10.
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Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

That is a perplexing passage, especially in the light of Ezekiel 28:18-19;

"By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever."
​
If this is really talking about Satan, as many Christians believe, then it would conflict with Rev 20:10. Satan cannot be burned to ashes and cease to exist and also be tormented forever in the LoF.

If Ezekiel 28 is not talking about Satan, then Rev 20:10 can be understood literally. Yeshua implied that spirit beings cannot die (Luke 20:34-36).
 
TimothyW said:
Thanks.
What do you think about the theory put forth here that those who believe that the lost will perish just as Jesus said are blaspheming Jesus and mocking God?
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The term 'lost' refers to unbelievers.

To Jesus, there are only two types of people..believers and unbelievers.

It's not the unbelievers sins that throw them into hell, it's their unbelief in who Jesus Christ is.
 
jocor said:
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

That is a perplexing passage, especially in the light of Ezekiel 28:18-19;

"By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever."
​
If this is really talking about Satan, as many Christians believe, then it would conflict with Rev 20:10. Satan cannot be burned to ashes and cease to exist and also be tormented forever in the LoF.

If Ezekiel 28 is not talking about Satan, then Rev 20:10 can be understood literally. Yeshua implied that spirit beings cannot die (Luke 20:34-36).
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It's not perplexing at all. Ezekiel 28 is speaking of Satan yes, but the word 'consume' is referring to sin, no more no less. It is speaking about the ruin of Satan on earth, not hell. The ruin of Satan in hell is forever....... And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you..... therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee; sin, and the punishment of it,; which, for sin committed in the midst of them, should consume as fire; or some from among themselves, that should stir up and cause internal divisions, which should issue in their ruin; as the unclean spirit that shall go out of the mouth of the beast, dragon, and false prophet, to gather the antichristian kings to battle, will end in their ruin, Revelation 16:14.
 
DRS81 said:
It's not perplexing at all. Ezekiel 28 is speaking of Satan yes, but the word 'consume' is referring to sin, no more no less. It is speaking about the ruin of Satan on earth, not hell. The ruin of Satan in hell is forever....... And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you..... therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee; sin, and the punishment of it,; which, for sin committed in the midst of them, should consume as fire; or some from among themselves, that should stir up and cause internal divisions, which should issue in their ruin; as the unclean spirit that shall go out of the mouth of the beast, dragon, and false prophet, to gather the antichristian kings to battle, will end in their ruin, Revelation 16:14.
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What about "and you will cease to be forever"?
 
DRS81 said:
The term 'lost' refers to unbelievers.

To Jesus, there are only two types of people..believers and unbelievers.

It's not the unbelievers sins that throw them into hell, it's their unbelief in who Jesus Christ is.
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I believe that it is really the same thing. Jesus Christ is the only one with the power to forgive our sins. If unbelievers turned to Jesus Christ, then their sins would be forgiven just as he has forgiven our sins. Then they would no longer owe the penalty for sin which is death. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. But faith in Jesus Christ is the only way to do this.
 
jocor said:
What about "and you will cease to be forever"?
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Other translations say, "All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.'"

Meaning the King of Tyre and/or Babylon will not exist on earth anymore to commit sin. It has nothing to do with hell. Earth and hell are two different locations.

TimothyW said:
I believe that it is really the same thing. Jesus Christ is the only one with the power to forgive our sins. If unbelievers turned to Jesus Christ, then their sins would be forgiven just as he has forgiven our sins. Then they would no longer owe the penalty for sin which is death. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. But faith in Jesus Christ is the only way to do this.
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Yeah but if you ask an atheist what sin is, he will simply say it's a religious word. This is how the devil works.
 
TimothyW said:
I believe that it is really the same thing. Jesus Christ is the only one with the power to forgive our sins. If unbelievers turned to Jesus Christ, then their sins would be forgiven just as he has forgiven our sins. Then they would no longer owe the penalty for sin which is death. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. But faith in Jesus Christ is the only way to do this.
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I thought that nobody could pay off their sin debt? Whether they are a believer or not. I thought that Jesus did it and no one else can?
 
jeff77 said:
I thought that nobody could pay off their sin debt? Whether they are a believer or not. I thought that Jesus did it and no one else can?
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I agree, Jesus is the only way to be forgiven of sin, and the consequence of sin, which is death. (For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, Romans 6:23)
 
There is a huge difference between penalty and punishment Timothy death is the penalty eternal damnation is the punishment.. if you knew what was in that cup Jesus drank from you might understand..

tob
 
DRS81 said:
Other translations say, "All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.'"

Meaning the King of Tyre and/or Babylon will not exist on earth anymore to commit sin. It has nothing to do with hell. Earth and hell are two different locations.



Yeah but if you ask an atheist what sin is, he will simply say it's a religious word. This is how the devil works.
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Exactly, I agree
 
turnorburn said:
There is a huge difference between penalty and punishment Timothy death is the penalty eternal damnation is the punishment.. if you knew what was in that cup Jesus drank from you might understand..

tob
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Thanks Tob, I do understand. Paul said of sin, "what is the end result of these things? Death". Jesus said whoever believes in him shall not perish but will have eternal life. Jesus said that he is the only way to have life.
 
DRS81 said:
Other translations say, "All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.'"

Meaning the King of Tyre and/or Babylon will not exist on earth anymore to commit sin. It has nothing to do with hell. Earth and hell are two different locations.
Click to expand...

I don't know what version you are quoting, but the Hebrew has the word "ayin" in it meaning, "a non-entity", "to be nothing or not exist". Your other post said these verses apply to Satan. Therefore, Satan will no longer exist on earth or in the LoF (hell).
 
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