Bible Study Help me understand Mat. 15:22 / 15:28 better ?

[Chopper]

My reply is a very simple one. It seems to me that all the while that Jesus was on the earth teaching about His Father, He was looking for, and responding favorably to anyone who exercised "faith". He was also looking for the "elect", those of whom the Father had chosen to aid Him in some way like the disciples.

Peter's statement of Who Jesus really was showed that Peter had been influenced by the Father with that kind of knowledge. I have noted that, in my way of putting it, Jesus was really excited when He observed anyone, Jew or Gentile, exercising "faith". It's almost that faith was His general theme because of the importance of faith to believe in His future death, burial and resurrection for Salvation.

Also, when this Gentile woman who was not supposed to know anything spiritual, she comes up with a block-buster statement. Jesus complied with her request perhaps to embarrass the disciples for their lack of faith. And as I say, Jesus got excited and rewarded those who exercised faith no matter who they were.

FAITH was being taught here.

 

[ezrider]

It seems very contradictory to me, ..
Jesus says he is only sent to the House of Israel,
then he notices a pagan has Faith
and all of a sudden it does not matter that she is not of the house of Israel ?

someone help me make sense of this please ! ?

Just a couple of thoughts. The first thought would be that it need not matter whether she was of the house of Israel not, for Jesus surely knew how to treat the stranger among them, for it was commanded to them by Moses.

Leviticus 19:33-34
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

The second thought is the idea of the dog receiving the scraps from the masters table can be likened to that which was commanded to them that at the time of the harvest, that they should leave the corners of the fields.

Leviticus 19:9-10
And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the Lord your God.

 

[smaller]

Jesus came specifically to the people that God called out of the world, first. The lineage of Abraham, Jews/Israelite's. There are vast amounts of studies under these matters in scripture. Jesus really is ONLY INTERESTED in Israel. The question then becomes, who is Israel?

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

None of the above has anything to do with "ethnicity" or genealogy of the flesh, but what is within. It is the same with the woman in question. Jesus recognized that there was/still is potentially TWO voices from any person, and He queried on that ground.

There is the voice of the contrary flesh.

There is the voice of the spirit.

Jesus only recognizes, beneficially, the later. And rejects openly, the former. And in these kinds of queries, Jesus exhibited "how" He sorted through the matters.

The Gospel does contain Divinely Purposeful "offense" to the voice of the contrary flesh.

 

[eddif]

Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit,and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Ok I agree

eddif

 

[Douglas Summers]

Matthew 15:22 / 15:28

“And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.”
“But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.”
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
“Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.”
“But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.”
“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.”
“Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.”

-Does the Lord God here make a clear distinction between "the house of Israel" and all gentiles/pagans/dogs ?
Why does he do so ? I mean,...a moment later
a pagan (dog) woman can persuade Jesus by merely mentioning that metaphorically speaking
"the dogs spiritually eat the morsels that fall off the table of the chosen people" ?
-Jesus refuses to heal a CHILD , simply because it is a Canaanite child and not one of the House of Israel ?
-Jesus is then persuaded by the mother of a Canaanite dog's argument,
and subsequently changes his position and heals the child ?

It seems very contradictory to me, ..
Jesus says he is only sent to the House of Israel,
then he notices a pagan has Faith
and all of a sudden it does not matter that she is not of the house of Israel ?

someone help me make sense of this please ! ?

Hi, When Christ came preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom in (Matt. 4: 17-23) It was fulfilling of a Promise to Israel. Matthew , Mark, Luke and John are not Church doctrine. The Church is only mentioned to come later.(Matt. 16: 17-20) He does not say,"I'am building my Church" But "I will build my Church" (future). In The Gospels, Christ has come as the promised Son of David to set up the promised kingdom of Israel under Davids son.(2 Samuel 7:1-19) the promise is called The Davidic Covenant. Also read (Psalms 89: 20-37). So He was preaching only to the lost sheep of Israel. The Gentile women was saved by faith. (Matt. 15: 24 & 28). But after Christ was rejected, crucified and risen from the grave (40 days after) the Church was established by the baptism of the Holy Spirit to all who were called.
Hope this helps.

 

[eddif]

Matthew 11:13 KJV
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

John 1:17 KJV
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John's message was repentance and believe in the one who comes after me.

John 1:14 KJV
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Hearing the word and seeing Jesus in action should yield the same conclusions.

Jesus did go to Israel, and could not exclude the prophecy already in place about the gentile inclusion
Isaiah 19

Jesus came in the flesh of a man. This limited his own abilities as God. A little lower than angels. Was he the son of God? Yes.
Who touched me (the lady with the issue of blood) shows his great abilities, and his limits at the same time. Jesus was reading and learning at the time he was the Son of God. It is just beyond my comprehension. Jesus left his station to come bear my sins. All praise goes to Him.

What seems a contradiction is only the humanity of Jesus peeking through! By the time Jesus preached the kingdom was started. The kingdom was just not fully manifested. Jesus dealing with the Gentile woman shows what is coming.

When Jesus breathed on the disciples and said receive ye the Holy Spirit (from memory) that could sound like they got it then, or it was prophetic to happen (which would mean it was as good as done). On. The day of Pentecost they surely thought that mighty wind is why he breathed on us.

First and foremost to Israel, but not forgetting coming prophecy fulfillment (hidden at times).

eddif

 

[JCitoL]

Matthew 15:22 / 15:28

“And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.”
“But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.”
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
“Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.”
“But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.”
“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.”
“Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.”

-Does the Lord God here make a clear distinction between "the house of Israel" and all gentiles/pagans/dogs ?
Why does he do so ? I mean,...a moment later
a pagan (dog) woman can persuade Jesus by merely mentioning that metaphorically speaking
"the dogs spiritually eat the morsels that fall off the table of the chosen people" ?
-Jesus refuses to heal a CHILD , simply because it is a Canaanite child and not one of the House of Israel ?
-Jesus is then persuaded by the mother of a Canaanite dog's argument,
and subsequently changes his position and heals the child ?

It seems very contradictory to me, ..
Jesus says he is only sent to the House of Israel,
then he notices a pagan has Faith
and all of a sudden it does not matter that she is not of the house of Israel ?

someone help me make sense of this please ! ?

He never refused to heal a child, including the child of that canaanite woman, but as for her case, He had to put over certain things so that there can be recorded/written testimony about them in the Scripture afterwards, and it is related to the idolatry, that woman was one of the canaanites who were great idolaters and therefore sacrificed to devils, which Jesus called "dogs", He just pointed out how much the idolatry can take the human away from the true God and that it is the main reason for falling from grace, and that nevertheless a man can save itself and its house through faith in case it exercises faith right, and exactly this is what He put over then, and here is how, thanks to the fact that this happened and was recorded/written so, many people could now read about it in the Gospels...

Blessings

 

[JLB]

Matthew 15:22 / 15:28

“And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.”
“But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.”
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
“Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.”
“But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.”
“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.”
“Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.”

-Does the Lord God here make a clear distinction between "the house of Israel" and all gentiles/pagans/dogs ?
Why does he do so ? I mean,...a moment later
a pagan (dog) woman can persuade Jesus by merely mentioning that metaphorically speaking
"the dogs spiritually eat the morsels that fall off the table of the chosen people" ?
-Jesus refuses to heal a CHILD , simply because it is a Canaanite child and not one of the House of Israel ?
-Jesus is then persuaded by the mother of a Canaanite dog's argument,
and subsequently changes his position and heals the child ?

It seems very contradictory to me, ..
Jesus says he is only sent to the House of Israel,
then he notices a pagan has Faith
and all of a sudden it does not matter that she is not of the house of Israel ?

someone help me make sense of this please ! ?

It was teaching by demonstration.

It was a seed planted in His disciples that soon the Gentiles would be brought into the Commonwealth of Israel, being declared sons of Abraham by faith.

It taught the disciples that faith moved God... pleased God, and yes even impressed God.


A seed that later would spring forth into a great Harvest of the nations, as this was promised to Abraham, the Gentile, by the Lord Himself.

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8-9


JLB

 

[iLOVE]

Faith commits God. Numbers 13:30-33, 14:1, Numbers 14:29, Mark 11:23-25

Your level of faith is what determines the level of command you exercise in the affairs of your life. You can be strong in faith or weak in faith. What is your level of faith?

Faith is the master key! It will open every door. It will access every promises. Faith is what's needed to get you to the other side. Bible belief is only dependent on the word of God. I believe it first - then I will speak it - and I believe whatever I speak is going to come to pass. To get faith to work for you, you must bring your conversation, your thinking, and your believing in line with your faith. And your faith saying it's already done. Because nothing can stand against the word of God!

Levels of faith: (many other examples in the bible)
Great faith - Matthew 8:5-10, Matthew 15:22-28
Unfeigned faith - II Timothy 1:5
Wavering faith - James 1:5-7
Perfect faith - James 2:22
Rich faith - James 2:5
Full of faith - Acts 6:1-5
Little Faith - Matthew 6:25-34, Matthew 14:25-31
No faith - Mark 4:35-40

Things may not be a fact at the time, but call things that be not as though they were! To get heaven to come to earth you must agree with it. Your faith must say it is already done. Truth will change facts! Faith only says what God says. Say what you want to see instead of what you currently see. Romans 4:17

Whenever you are moving forward advancing the Kingdom of God you have to have the faith that takes and not the faith that waits. Matthew 11:12

 

[Jim Parker]

Matthew 15:22 / 15:28

“And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.”
“But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.”
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
“Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.”
“But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.”
“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.”
“Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.”

-Does the Lord God here make a clear distinction between "the house of Israel" and all gentiles/pagans/dogs ?
Why does he do so ? I mean,...a moment later
a pagan (dog) woman can persuade Jesus by merely mentioning that metaphorically speaking
"the dogs spiritually eat the morsels that fall off the table of the chosen people" ?
-Jesus refuses to heal a CHILD , simply because it is a Canaanite child and not one of the House of Israel ?
-Jesus is then persuaded by the mother of a Canaanite dog's argument,
and subsequently changes his position and heals the child ?

It seems very contradictory to me, ..
Jesus says he is only sent to the House of Israel,
then he notices a pagan has Faith
and all of a sudden it does not matter that she is not of the house of Israel ?

someone help me make sense of this please ! ?

This pericope is an object lesson in faith. Throughout the Gospels, Jesus regularly uses gentiles and outcasts as examples of the faith that should have been the norm among the Jews but was too often lacking. Others include the Roman Centurion whose servant was sick and the woman with the issue of blood who touched Him in the throng of people. Each of these people violated social norms because they had faith that Jesus could heal them.

This particular woman refused to give up even when she was insulted. (Called a dog.) She was like the widow in the parable of the widow and the corrupt judge who gave in to the woman because of her persistence. The Syro-Phonecian woman also persisted in petitioning Jesus because she believed that He could heal her daughter with just a word and, because of her faith her daughter was healed just as the Centurion's servant was healed because of the centurion's faith and the blind man was healed because of his faith and the leper was cleansed because of his faith.

We are all urged to have such faith and not to doubt.

"Go and do likewise."

iakov the fool