Her immaculate foot

[Gary]

Her immaculate foot...

... talking of fraud, I wonder if the RCC is going to admit that they mistranslated Genesis 3:15 in the Douay Rheims..... which spawned another set of pictures and man-made doctrines about Mary.

I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heal Genesis 3:15 Douay Rheims

Based on that mistranslation, many statues and paintings of Mary show her crushing a serpent under her foot - a graphic representation of her so-called role of co-redeemer. The imagery even found its way into the "infallible" pope's "Ineffabilis Deus" (Pope Pius IX)

Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it truimphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was, with him and through him, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely truimphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot.

Based on the faulty translation of Genesis 3:15 from the Latin texts of the Vulgate Bible, the English Douay Rheims Bible carried this error. Newer Roman Catholic translations (such as the NAB) have corrected this error in the translations but the theological errors remain in the co-redeemer dogma, paintings and prayers.

:-?

Source: The Gospel According to Rome - James McCarthy

 

[stray bullet]

Yes, Mary crushed the devil with her seed, Jesus Christ. Are you denying that Mary had Jesus?

"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel."

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Actually Gary, as much as I disagree with the 'catholic' glorfication of Mary I have to say that I agree with stray bullet. I do think that, that scripture is referring to Mary and her giving birth to the saviour. I could be wrong though, it just seems to fit that's all.

 

[cj]

Yes, Mary crushed the devil with her seed, Jesus Christ. Are you denying that Mary had Jesus?

"I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel."

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Mary crushes nothing,.... she can't having been a fallen human and Satan being more powerful than humans. Scripture is very clear about this.

Yet God refers to the "seed" as Mary's seed, even though we know this "seed" is of God.

Why?

Because it is in His role/reality of the Son of man that Jesus defeats His adversary. Jesus, as the Son of God (meaning Jesus in His divinity), is greater than Satan, but Jesus as the Son of man (meaning Jesus in His human aspect) is weaker than Satan. This is how Jesus could suffer death.

Therefore, in calling this "seed" Mary's seed, God is declaring that in His human aspect the "seed", Jesus, will crush Satan's head.

And it goes even further than that, for Jesus enters into each believer as life, enlivening the humanity that was previously dead. And as believers have a living and a being in and through this new life (resurrection life) we in fact become a corporate "seed" of Eve, cruching Satan's head as we live out our life abiding in this new/ressurection life that we have received.

"Seed" means both singular, Jesus, and plural, the many believers. These many believers have nothing to do with Mary, as our resurrection life has been received through the Spirit and not through a human. Therefore, though Mary was chosen by God to give Jesus His humanity, the humanity that died on the cross, Mary has nothing to do with the corporate "seed" that is now crushing Satan's head, as the humanity believers have has not come from Mary but came from Eve.

Truth is, even Mary's humanity came from Eve. Mary was of the first Adam, she was Adamic in life and nature.


This attempt by the Romanist to deceive/veil/confuse is just one more in a long list of scriptural manipilation perpetrated on the believing body by this apostate institution.

Just reject it.

In love,
cj

 

[notapseudonym]

When did the Catholic Church say Mary was not a descendant of Adam?

 

[Orthodoxy]

another attack on a "dead" woman. Cowards.

Luke 16:31

 

[Orthodox Christian]

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your seed and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."

One can see the prophetic, symbolic nature of this verse. It is clear that the Seed is Christ, and the woman is both Eve in one sense and Mary in another- and the Church at yet another level.

Prophecy is by its very nature interpretive. In one sense, we Christians all participate in the crushing and the the reciving of the adder's strike.

But since some like to take liberties with their interpretations, so shall I:
We see enmity between two parties on this very thread. One party strikes at the heel of the woman, who has been illustrated here as Mary. In that respect, we know whose seed the Mary haters are.

 

[cj]

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your seed and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."

One can see the prophetic, symbolic nature of this verse. It is clear that the Seed is Christ, and the woman is both Eve in one sense and Mary in another- and the Church at yet another level.

Prophecy is by its very nature interpretive. In one sense, we Christians all participate in the crushing and the the reciving of the adder's strike.

But since some like to take liberties with their interpretations, so shall I:
We see enmity between two parties on this very thread. One party strikes at the heel of the woman, who has been illustrated here as Mary. In that respect, we know whose seed the Mary haters are.

Lets out the lie....... and the liar.

Who said they hate Mary.


Only the institution OC, only the institution that adds leaven to the fine meal, is what is to be hated.


Mary is a wonderful saint, a fine example and pattern of God's work in a person. But what the apsotate institutions present is not this Mary, it is the counterfeit of the adversary of God.

In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Duplicate post deleted.

cj

 

[guibox]

Out of all of you, I would agree somewhat with OC.

however, I don't believe the 'woman' being talked about here is Mary (unless you absolutely stretch it).

Like in Revelation 12, the woman represents the church, in this case, being the 'seed of Adam' we see that we are talking about Israel and David of whom Christ came from and in an eschaetological application: us.

Satan is continually at war with the 'remnant of her seed' and has attacked the church, be it Israel of old or the New Israel, the seeds of Abraham throughout history.

To take this verse to simply mean Mary, never mind Mary herself putting her foot on the serpent, is a gross misapplication of the text and the parallel symbolic link to Revelation 12.

 

[thessalonian]

To take this verse to simply mean Mary, never mind Mary herself putting her foot on the serpent, is a gross misapplication of the text and the parallel symbolic link to Revelation 12.

This is where protestants fail to understand Catholicism many times. We do not take the verse to simply mean Mary. That woman is the Church is also valid. But the Church is not a perfect fit either. You see, the Church in some sense did not give birth to Christ, but was taken from his side in the blood and the water poured out on the earth. Israel did, though one might say that Israel is the Church before the birth of Christ. So in another sense that does not completely fit, Israel, i.e. the Jews gave birth to Christ, i.e. Mary. We allow for multiple interprutations of a passage. All three of these have some application to the passage in Rev 12. Interestingly we see Mary as a type or foreshadowing of the Church. Now if one claims the Church is what crushed the head of the serpant (i.e. the woman) how does that get one away from the problem of Mary being just a woman so she couldn't possibly crush the head of the serpant? Is not the Church made up of men? How can they crush the head of the serpant? So coming to the conclusion that the Church is the woman does not solve these problems. Unless of course one sees in the Church Christ. Hmmmm....Romans 12, 1 Cor 12. Still you can't do without the birth of Christ, so you need the woman, i.e Mary giving birth to the Church, the body of Christ, by giving birth to Christ the literal body of Christ. Sounds like spiritual motherhood to me. Of course this blurring of the lines of who exactly the woman is, is also present in Genesis 3:15. Was it Israel? Was it the Church, or Mary? They do not have to be contradictins.

Blessings

Blessings

 

[thessalonian]

The whole article here is instructive. I'll just post the critical part.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9910chap.asp

The figure of the serpent does not merely represent an individual snake or even all snakes, but the actual Devil himself (cf. Rev. 20:2). Similarly, the other two figures in the passageâ€â€the Woman and "her Seed"â€â€do not merely refer to Eve and one of her righteous sons (Abel or Seth), or even to all mothers and sons, but to specific individuals that are key to redemptive historyâ€â€Mary and Christ.

Though this much is clear in the passage, there is confusion about the details of the prophecy. This results from two different versions of the passage. In most editions of the Douay-Rheims Bibleâ€â€the Catholic counterpart to the King James Versionâ€â€Genesis 3:15 says, "I will put enmities between thee [the serpent] and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: She shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel."

In the New American Bible, and all other modern Bibles, it says, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."

People often notice the "he/him" variant used in contemporary translations of Scripture because they remember seeing examples of popular Catholic art that depict a serene Mary standing over a crushed serpent. If they are familiar with the Douay-Rheims version, they may also remember the "she/her" variant from there.

What’s the origin of the difference? Well, the original Hebrew of the passage allows for either reading; the gender is simply ambiguous, and allows for a he, she, or it reading. However, the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament that was commonly used in the early Church, specified the gender of the one crushing the serpent’s head as being male and thus the Woman’s Seed.

When Jerome did his translation of Scripture into Latinâ€â€the translation known today as the Vulgateâ€â€he followed the Septuagint’s "he/his" reading. However, other Church Fathers followed the "she/her" reading. Eventually, the "she/her" reading found its way into the Vulgate. This probably happened either due to a copyist error or to a scribe trying to harmonize Jerome’s text with the other tradition. Once in the Vulgate, the reading could influence other Catholic translations, such as the Douay-Rheims, was originally based on the Vulgate, though it was later edited in accord with the Greek and Hebrew originals.

Regardless of whether the human author of Genesis understood the passage in the "she/her" sense or the "he/him" sense, the ideas expressed by both readings are true. In the ultimate sense, Christ did crush the serpent’s head and was struck himself by the serpent, both aspects of his death on the Cross. However, there is another sense in which Mary crushed the serpent’s head and in which she was struck at by the serpent. She didn’t do these things directly, but indirectly, through her Son and through her cooperation with her Son’s mission.

 

[Vic C.]

Like in Revelation 12, the woman represents the church, in this case, being the 'seed of Adam' we see that we are talking about Israel and David of whom Christ came from and in an eschaetological application: us.

In this case, as in Genesis 3:15, the woman is Israel. This is further confirmed by Rev 12:6, that is unless I missed somewhere where the Church or Mary flee into the wilderness. But if you are about to compare this to Joseph, Mary and Jesus fleeing to Egypt when he was just a child, it doesn't quite fit prophecy. Note the "thousand two hundred and threescore days" is the aprox. length of the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God.

 

[thessalonian]

Like in Revelation 12, the woman represents the church, in this case, being the 'seed of Adam' we see that we are talking about Israel and David of whom Christ came from and in an eschaetological application: us.

In this case, as in Genesis 3:15, the woman is Israel. This is further confirmed by Rev 12:6, that is unless I missed somewhere where the Church or Mary flee into the wilderness. But if you are about to compare this to Joseph, Mary and Jesus fleeing to Egypt when he was just a child, it doesn't quite fit prophecy. Wrath of God.

Fullfillments of scripture are not JUST prophecies about future events. Past events can forshadow future events and God does not just prophecy always once, thus the fleeing of Joseph and Mary in to Egypt is another forshadowing/prophecy consistent with the one in Rev 12:6. God forshadowed Christ in Moses and Joshua and the events surrounding their lives. Interestingly John parrellels the events of Christ's ministry with much that went on in Moses life as evidence of this. Of course there are prophecies of what happened to Christ as well. Ever heard the phrase "history repeats itself". I think there is good reason for this and it has to do with God being in control and how there is nothing new that is not seen in scripture, such that our lives do not have a guide to interprut even todays events by.

Blessings

 

[Cure of Ars]

There are types in the Bible of head crushing that point to Jesus, Mary and the Church.


Old Testament passage of crushing a snake’s head that prefigure Jesus

David ran and stood over him. He took hold of the Philistine's sword and drew it from the scabbard. After he killed him, he cut off his head with the sword. (1SA 17:51)

Old Testament passage of crushing a snake’s head that prefigure Mary

Her [Jael] hand reached for the tent peg, her right hand for the workman's hammer. She struck Sisera, she crushed his head, she shattered and pierced his temple. (JDG 5:26)

Notice that Jael and Mary are given the same blessing. This is because Jael prefigures Mary.

Blessed among women be Jael, blessed among tent-dwelling women. (JDG 5:24)

Most blessed are you among women… (LK 1:42)

Abimelech went to the tower and stormed it. But as he approached the entrance to the tower to set it on fire, a woman dropped an upper millstone on his head and cracked his skull. JDG 9:52

Old Testament passage of crushing a snake’s head that prefigure both Mary and the Church

The woman said to Joab, "His head will be thrown to you from the wall." Then the woman went to all the people with her wise advice, and they cut off the head of Sheba son of Bicri and threw it to Joab. (2 SA 20:21-22)

The above typology gives solid support that it is correct to hold Jesus, Mary, and the Church as crushing the head of the snake in fulfillment of the prophesy in Gen 3:15.

 

[Lewis]

Popes say that Mary Saves Souls!


I'll let these antichrists speak for themselves--

Leo XIII, Jucunda Semper, 1894: "When Mary offered herself completely to God together with her Son in the temple, she was already sharing with him the painful atonement on behalf of the human race ... (at the foot of cross) she willingly offered him up to the divine justice, dying with him in her heart, pierced by the sword of sorrow."

Pius X, Ad Diem Illum, 1904: "Owing to the union of suffering and purpose existing between Christ and Mary, she merited to become most worthily the reparatrix of the lost world, and for this reason, the dispenser of ALL favors which Jesus acquired for us by his death . . .

Benedict XV, Inter Sodalicia, 1918: "To such extent did Mary suffer and almost die with her suffering and dying Son; to such extent did she surrender her maternal rights over her Son for : man's salvation . . that we may rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ."

Plus XI, 1935, in a prayer to close a jubilee, we find the first use of the word Coredemptrix by a pope: "O Mother of love and mercy who, when thy sweetest Son was consummating the Redemption of the human race on in the altar of the cross, didst stand next to him suffering with him as a Coredemptrix."

Plus XII, in a radio broadcast in 1946: "Mary, for having been associated with the King of Martyrs in the ineffable work of human Redemption as Mother and cooperatrix, she remains forever associated with him, with an almost unlimited power, in the distribution of graces which flow from the Redemption."

John XXIII, Vatican II's Lumen Gentium, 1965.

Paul VI, Christi Matri. "The Church ... been accustomed to have recourse to that most ready intercessor, her Mother Mary ... For as St. Irenaeus says, she 'has become the cause of salvation for the whole human race"

John Paul II, Mother of the Redeemer, 1987.

Pius IX, Ubi Primum, 1849: "For God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that THROUGH HER are obtained every hope, every grace, and ALL SALVATION. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary."

Leo XIII, Supremi Apostolatus, 1883: "O Mary, the guardian of our peace and the dispensatrix of heavenly graces."

Plus X, Ad Diem Illum, 1904: "It was granted to the august Virgin to be together with her Only-begotten Son the most powerful Mediatrix and Conciliatrix of the whole world. So Christ is the source . . . Mary, however, as St. Bernard justly remarks, is the channel, or she is the neck by which the Body is united to the Head... through which ALL spiritual gifts are communicated to his Body."

Benedict XV, In a decree on Joan of Are: "In every miracle we must recognize the mediation of Mary, through whom, according to God's will, every grace and blessing comes to us."

Plus XI, Miserentissimus Redemptor, 1928: "Confiding in her intercession with Jesus, "the one Mediator of God and man, who wished to associate his own Mother with himself as the advocate of sinners, as the dispenser and mediatrix of grace."

Plus XII, Superiore Anno, 1940: "As St. Bernard declares, 'it is the will of God that we obtain favors through Mary, let everyone hasten to have recourse to Mary."

John XXIII, see Vatican II, Lumen Gentium.

Paul VI, see Lumen Gentium.

John Paul II, Dives in Misericordia, 1980, quoting Lumen Gentium, "In fact, by being assumed into heaven she has not laid aside the office of salvation but by the manifold intercession she continues to obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation."

Romanists say they don't worship Mary--yeah right, no wrong. Romanist, this is blasphemy. Here is a warning and admonition. You need to be saved--

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Corinthians 6:17-18

Jesus said, "They that worship the Father must worship him in spirit and in TRUTH." God will not accept your worship based on a lie. Repent or perish. Our index page has a lot more on the Catholic religion.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Wow!!! No wonder she's worshipped if that's the picture that's been MADE UP of her :

 

[thessalonian]

Lewis,

I don't see a ref for that post. Did you write it yourself? Coincidentally I find it on a couple of other places on the net. Funny how they think exactly like you and post the same words. Are you plagerizing Lewis? Naughty, naughty. How is it blasphemy to say that mary obtains grace through her intercession. The grace is that of her son, won for us on the cross. I see none of these statements are given proper context and of course you are incapable of understadning them in light of scripture. Very sad. By the way, do you always use derogatory terms for people you think need conversion (romanists). Very charitable and Christian of you Lewis. I'm not impressed.

 

[thessalonian]

Wow!!! No wonder she's worshipped if that's the picture that's been MADE UP of her :

Understood in context there is nothing wrong with those statements. We simply beleive that Jesus listens to the prayers of his Mother. That he will pour out HIS graces at her request. This is not blasphemy or worship. We give him the credit for the grace. Do you believe your prayers win the grace of Christ for others and that they are saved through the grace your prayers bring to them. Utter blasphemy. Oh my.

 

[cj]

In this case, as in Genesis 3:15, the woman is Israel. This is further confirmed by Rev 12:6, that is unless I missed somewhere where the Church or Mary flee into the wilderness. But if you are about to compare this to Joseph, Mary and Jesus fleeing to Egypt when he was just a child, it doesn't quite fit prophecy. Note the "thousand two hundred and threescore days" is the aprox. length of the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God.

Vic, take another look,...... see if the woman might be the church and the manchild the strong believers who are produced out of the church.

Look into the following....

Does Israel bring forth anything?

Who else does scripture say will sheperd the nations with an iron rod?

The child was caught-up to God and the throne, and the timing of this, what is it connected to?


In love,
cj