Here's a curious question....

Chrysanthemum7879

 
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On reddit, there was a user who made a post about asking God to wipe him/her from existence/consciousness after he/she did all he/she was supposed to do to be saved from eternal torment. Basically, he/she accepted Christ as his personal savior, but his/her plan is to ask God to return him/her back into a state of nonexistence now that the infinite debt of sin has been paid.

What perked my ears was the fact that almost all of the comments said that he/she deserved eternal darkness in conscious torment forever, comparing the desire to simply not exist to Satan's tyrannical desire to overtake God's Kingdom and rule and own the universe as his own, since he wanted to be God. There were several other users on Quora as well who did this.

So, this begs the question: HOW and WHY is the mere desire to not exist at all tantamount to someone with the narcissistic and egomanical desire to try to overtake somebody else's place, let alone their universe??? The person who doesn't want to exist at all forever doesn't want a thing from ANYBODY. They have absolutely NO interest in taking over anything or ruling anyone's life. They're not hurting anybody.

And it's interesting that while comparing the desire to choose nonexistence over eternal existence to the bold, arrogant desire of Lucifer to overthrow God, NONE of those people applied the same paradigm to people on Earth who lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder, etc. THOSE acts, just like Satan's attempt at overthrowing God, also play God, disrespect Him, destroy and ruin His creation and make life for everyone and everything living on Earth a living hell. Why isn't anyone saying "Are you God? Who said you have a choice over that?"

And we all know why: free will. So shouldn't the same apply to the choice between existing and not existing? Who is the person hurting or insulting? Also, theoretically, since the person never existed, they therefore wouldn't have been born in sin, wouldn't freely choose to sin, wouldn't need to be held accountable, and thus, no need for a Savior.

Their responses give the implication that simply the mere act of not wanting to exist in the first place is in of itself, a great evil for two reasons: 1. Since God created the soul, He intended for said soul to exist forever, so understandably, going against that design would be considered going against His will. 2. One could conclude that such an individual would only want such a thing if he/she simply wants to escape accountability for a lifetime of sin or avoid punishment.

They have a point, but there's a third alternative to consider: It could be that the person quite simply DOESN'T want Christ. They don't want to spend eternity in Hell not only due to the inevitable fellowhsip with some of the worst, most depraved, wicked people to have ever disgraced the Earth, but also other less discussed reasons such as a perpetually worsening spiritual and moral state and the obvious fact that nobody in their right mind would want to spend all of eternity in total darkness, loneliness, pain and misery with thoughts and a conscience that torment you (and not simply just because they want to escape punishment or accountability).

At the same time, the person...just doesn't want Christ.....it has nothing to do with sin, because there's plenty of sinners who DO want to spend eternity with God. They just don't have a desire or a passion to serve Christ for its own sake. Inevitably, they'll only want to come to Him if it's to avoid the alternative: Hell. And I'm NOT going to do that. You either want Him or you just don't. Bottom line.

So it begs another question: why are people like us here? Why are we here? The fact that there are only two eternal destinations after death and the fact that there's people who don't want God but are not necessarily evil in the truest sense of the word has solidified my belief (which in turn highlights Jesus' point when He said of Judas 'It would have been better if that man had never been born') that people like us should've never entered into existence.

That way, we wouldn't have a thing to complain or worry about. Know existence, know sin, know accountability. No existence, no sin, no accountability.
 
but his/her plan is to ask God to return him/her back into a state of nonexistence now that the infinite debt of sin has been paid.
I think this shows that they do not really understand what sin is or have any comprehension of what God is.

God is the ultimate realiy and to not want to know, or experience that indicates they do noy understand.
there's people who don't want God but are not necessarily evil in the truest sense of the word

The true meaning of evil is to reject God.

What people regard as the problem of evil, the vile things people do is only the outworking of there hatred of God and his pure goodness.

To be brutal, there will be no innocent people in Hell, they will All have chosen evil over good.
 
On reddit, there was a user who made a post about asking God to wipe him/her from existence/consciousness after he/she did all he/she was supposed to do to be saved from eternal torment. Basically, he/she accepted Christ as his personal savior, but his/her plan is to ask God to return him/her back into a state of nonexistence now that the infinite debt of sin has been paid.

This person's request to be unmade indicates that they were very likely not actually saved. Salvation entails submitting to God, to His divine authority, wisdom and power. If a person intends to be saved by God, they must understand that He saves them AS GOD, which is to say, He saves them as the One who is their Lord, Master, Ruler and King. He will be nothing less in the lives of His creatures. As such, if He has seen fit to create someone, who are they to think they know better and ought to be uncreated? Where is the submission to God in such a request?

So, this begs the question: HOW and WHY is the mere desire to not exist at all tantamount to someone with the narcissistic and egomanical desire to try to overtake somebody else's place, let alone their universe??? The person who doesn't want to exist at all forever doesn't want a thing from ANYBODY. They have absolutely NO interest in taking over anything or ruling anyone's life. They're not hurting anybody.

They are implying that God should not have created them, which is to say the creature knows better than its Creator whether or not it should exist. This is a kind of pride, obviously. On what basis would the creature's view of its existence be superior to that of its Creator? Again, where is the proper and necessary submission to God's will in the creature wanting to cease to exist entirely?

Such a desire for non-existence communicates volumes about what the creature understands of its Creator, too. God says He is the Ultimate Locus of all good things, the Perfect Apex of love, joy, peace, contentment, wisdom, etc.. He says we can know and enjoy Him in all of His goodness and perfection, if we walk with Him in the way has told us to do. The person who wants to cease to exist implicitly denies all that God has said about Himself concerning His goodness and rejects God's offer of fellowship. How is this not an evil thing to do, given God's excellence and the generosity of his offer?

And it's interesting that while comparing the desire to choose nonexistence over eternal existence to the bold, arrogant desire of Lucifer to overthrow God, NONE of those people applied the same paradigm to people on Earth who lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder, etc. THOSE acts, just like Satan's attempt at overthrowing God, also play God, disrespect Him, destroy and ruin His creation and make life for everyone and everything living on Earth a living hell. Why isn't anyone saying "Are you God? Who said you have a choice over that?"

??? I know of many Christians - myself among them - who say these very sorts of things.

At the same time, the person...just doesn't want Christ.....it has nothing to do with sin

But not wanting Christ is sin. He is the Creator; he is God; to not want him is to not want the purpose for which one has been made. He is the Ultimate Point of our existence; we are made for him, not the other way 'round.

They just don't have a desire or a passion to serve Christ for its own sake. Inevitably, they'll only want to come to Him if it's to avoid the alternative: Hell. And I'm NOT going to do that. You either want Him or you just don't. Bottom line.

This is the ultimate narcissism. The attitude described above indicates that the will of the creature is superior to the will of its Creator, that the creature has a right to self-determination, to seek its own will and way rather than the will and way of its Creator. But this is entirely false. None of us were made for ourselves, to seek and fulfill our own will and way. When we behave as though we should serve ourselves, we are like a hammer used to sew curtains, or a saxophone used to play golf; we are completely unfit for purpose and descend into frustration, meaninglessness, darkness and self-destruction.

We are in God's universe, made and sustained by His will and power, and are intended by Him to serve His purposes, not our own. To rail at this, to reject His right as our Creator to direct our lives and do with us as He pleases, is the very height of hubris and enormously evil - so much so that God will punish such wicked pride with eternal hell.
 
This person's request to be unmade indicates that they were very likely not actually saved. Salvation entails submitting to God, to His divine authority, wisdom and power. If a person intends to be saved by God, they must understand that He saves them AS GOD, which is to say, He saves them as the One who is their Lord, Master, Ruler and King. He will be nothing less in the lives of His creatures. As such, if He has seen fit to create someone, who are they to think they know better and ought to be uncreated? Where is the submission to God in such a request?



They are implying that God should not have created them, which is to say the creature knows better than its Creator whether or not it should exist. This is a kind of pride, obviously. On what basis would the creature's view of its existence be superior to that of its Creator? Again, where is the proper and necessary submission to God's will in the creature wanting to cease to exist entirely?

Such a desire for non-existence communicates volumes about what the creature understands of its Creator, too. God says He is the Ultimate Locus of all good things, the Perfect Apex of love, joy, peace, contentment, wisdom, etc.. He says we can know and enjoy Him in all of His goodness and perfection, if we walk with Him in the way has told us to do. The person who wants to cease to exist implicitly denies all that God has said about Himself concerning His goodness and rejects God's offer of fellowship. How is this not an evil thing to do, given God's excellence and the generosity of his offer?



??? I know of many Christians - myself among them - who say these very sorts of things.



But not wanting Christ is sin. He is the Creator; he is God; to not want him is to not want the purpose for which one has been made. He is the Ultimate Point of our existence; we are made for him, not the other way 'round.



This is the ultimate narcissism. The attitude described above indicates that the will of the creature is superior to the will of its Creator, that the creature has a right to self-determination, to seek its own will and way rather than the will and way of its Creator. But this is entirely false. None of us were made for ourselves, to seek and fulfill our own will and way. When we behave as though we should serve ourselves, we are like a hammer used to sew curtains, or a saxophone used to play golf; we are completely unfit for purpose and descend into frustration, meaninglessness, darkness and self-destruction.

We are in God's universe, made and sustained by His will and power, and are intended by Him to serve His purposes, not our own. To rail at this, to reject His right as our Creator to direct our lives and do with us as He pleases, is the very height of hubris and enormously evil - so much so that God will punish such wicked pride with eternal hell.
Okay. But what about murder, theft, rape, cheating, terrorism and mass killings? We have the free will to do all of these things which are against God's will and are of great disrespect to Him and His creation, but a mere wish to turn down eternal existence especially when it causes no harm to anyone and when the person hasn't even sinned yet, is equal to or worst than all of those atrocities?
 
On reddit, there was a user who made a post about asking God to wipe him/her from existence/consciousness after he/she did all he/she was supposed to do to be saved from eternal torment. Basically, he/she accepted Christ as his personal savior, but his/her plan is to ask God to return him/her back into a state of nonexistence now that the infinite debt of sin has been paid.

What perked my ears was the fact that almost all of the comments said that he/she deserved eternal darkness in conscious torment forever, comparing the desire to simply not exist to Satan's tyrannical desire to overtake God's Kingdom and rule and own the universe as his own, since he wanted to be God. There were several other users on Quora as well who did this.

So, this begs the question: HOW and WHY is the mere desire to not exist at all tantamount to someone with the narcissistic and egomanical desire to try to overtake somebody else's place, let alone their universe??? The person who doesn't want to exist at all forever doesn't want a thing from ANYBODY. They have absolutely NO interest in taking over anything or ruling anyone's life. They're not hurting anybody.
First, such a person who claims to have done all “he/she was supposed to do to be saved,” has tried to complete a list of works to be saved, as though a person can simply decide to do X, Y, and Z and be saved. Second, the fact they’re not saved is shown in their desire to not want to be with God for eternity. To claim to be saved and yet not want to be with God for eternity is a contradiction. Third, it is to say that God made a mistake by allowing them to exist. Fourth, it is to utterly fail at recognizing the significance of their existence, that there is a purpose for it. Fifth, it is utterly selfish and self-centered.

And it's interesting that while comparing the desire to choose nonexistence over eternal existence to the bold, arrogant desire of Lucifer to overthrow God, NONE of those people applied the same paradigm to people on Earth who lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder, etc. THOSE acts, just like Satan's attempt at overthrowing God, also play God, disrespect Him, destroy and ruin His creation and make life for everyone and everything living on Earth a living hell. Why isn't anyone saying "Are you God? Who said you have a choice over that?"
That is at the core of wanting to not exist. It is for that person to say that God made a mistake and that he/she knows better than God. It is the sin of sins.

And we all know why: free will. So shouldn't the same apply to the choice between existing and not existing? Who is the person hurting or insulting?
God. Humans are made in the image of God and have infinite worth. It is a huge insult to God.

Also, theoretically, since the person never existed, they therefore wouldn't have been born in sin, wouldn't freely choose to sin, wouldn't need to be held accountable, and thus, no need for a Savior.
They also would be unable to love God and bring him glory and enjoy him forever.

Their responses give the implication that simply the mere act of not wanting to exist in the first place is in of itself, a great evil for two reasons: 1. Since God created the soul, He intended for said soul to exist forever, so understandably, going against that design would be considered going against His will. 2. One could conclude that such an individual would only want such a thing if he/she simply wants to escape accountability for a lifetime of sin or avoid punishment.

They have a point, but there's a third alternative to consider: It could be that the person quite simply DOESN'T want Christ.
Which again shows that such a person cannot be saved. Every single unsaved person in hell are those who reject Christ--that is the very reason they are there.

They don't want to spend eternity in Hell not only due to the inevitable fellowhsip with some of the worst, most depraved, wicked people to have ever disgraced the Earth,
It's always easy to point out the evil in others while ignoring the evil inside oneself, made all the worse by comparison--that person is so evil because they did X and therefore since I haven't done X, I am good and not evil.

but also other less discussed reasons such as a perpetually worsening spiritual and moral state and the obvious fact that nobody in their right mind would want to spend all of eternity in total darkness, loneliness, pain and misery with thoughts and a conscience that torment you (and not simply just because they want to escape punishment or accountability).

At the same time, the person...just doesn't want Christ.....it has nothing to do with sin, because there's plenty of sinners who DO want to spend eternity with God. They just don't have a desire or a passion to serve Christ for its own sake. Inevitably, they'll only want to come to Him if it's to avoid the alternative: Hell. And I'm NOT going to do that. You either want Him or you just don't. Bottom line.
Then they have absolutely no idea about who God actually is or who Jesus actually is. That begs the question as to why they don't want him. How can a person rationally reject God or Christ whom they don't even know? That makes no sense.

But, they don't actually want to spend eternity with God, they just want to spend eternity doing what they want to do. That's the ultimate in selfishness and self-centeredness. That is the bottom line.

So it begs another question: why are people like us here? Why are we here?
I would reframe it slightly as: Why do I exist rather than not exist? I think that it more strongly suggests purpose. Should we not then seek that out with everything we are and by all means possible? God wants everyone to be here, for his reasons and purposes. Do we need any other reason?

The fact that there are only two eternal destinations after death and the fact that there's people who don't want God but are not necessarily evil in the truest sense of the word has solidified my belief (which in turn highlights Jesus' point when He said of Judas 'It would have been better if that man had never been born') that people like us should've never entered into existence.
But, they are evil in the truest sense of the word. They have rejected God, which is to reject love and goodness and holiness himself, so they can only be evil. The claim that there are people who "don't want God but are not necessarily evil in the truest sense of the word," betrays a complete lack of understanding of what sin is and how sinful even the smallest sin is to a perfectly holy God. As such, one also cannot understand the holiness and justice of God.

That way, we wouldn't have a thing to complain or worry about. Know existence, know sin, know accountability. No existence, no sin, no accountability.
If someone thinks that they would have been better off and would be better of just not existing, then something is very wrong spiritually with that person. If a person knows it would be infinitely better to be in heaven, then why would they reject God and reject Jesus instead of pursuing them with all their being? Especially since, at this point, there is no option to not exist.
 
So, this begs the question: HOW and WHY is the mere desire to not exist at all tantamount to someone with the narcissistic and egomanical desire to try to overtake somebody else's place, let alone their universe??? The person who doesn't want to exist at all forever doesn't want a thing from ANYBODY. They have absolutely NO interest in taking over anything or ruling anyone's life. They're not hurting anybody.

Simply put , in this life either you are serving God or you are serving Satan .

If you do not desire to be here living your life after have been given the gift of life from the Creator you would be serving Satan .

New Living Translation
Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.

A poet wrote .
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You’re gonna have to serve somebody,
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody.
 
Okay. But what about murder, theft, rape, cheating, terrorism and mass killings? We have the free will to do all of these things which are against God's will and are of great disrespect to Him and His creation, but a mere wish to turn down eternal existence especially when it causes no harm to anyone and when the person hasn't even sinned yet, is equal to or worst than all of those atrocities?

Is it a "mere wish" to want to be annihilated, to be put out of existence? Or is it as I've described? What it means to want to be unmade (which I explained in my last post) isn't lessened or negated by the other acts of evil you've listed.

You know, I've heard people say things like, "Well, I've never killed anybody," or "I'm not as bad as Hitler," when they argue against God sending them to hell forever. They find the worst people to which to compare themselves so that they're own wickedness seems far less heinous. But God's standard for judging what is good or evil isn't the one we want to propose to Him. He doesn't accept our sin because the next guy's sin was far worse. No, God is His own standard for judging our sin and next to His holy perfection we are all vile, depraved monsters. And so, pointing at "greater" evils (from your point of view) doesn't make the evil of wanting to be unmade any less awful. God says it all defies His will and so He will punish it all as it deserves to be punished.
 
After reading the question and the replies to date, I would like to add my 2 cents worth to the conversation.
What came to mind for me was the book of Job. God knew Job would not turn from him no matter what the evil one did to him, so God allowed evil to do anything he wanted to Job except one thing. He would not allow evil to kill Job.
Later in the book there were multiple times when Job said "I wish I had never been born" (paraphrasing here).

So this means to me that there are those in the world today who feel like Job did back then that they also wish they had never been born so the question doesn't really surprise me that such thoughts still exist.

Where there is pain, suffering, torment, persecution, discrimination, criminal acts done to us, prejudice, cruelty, rejection, etc. I believe that, since only God knows our hearts and that the inhumanity in the world can and does take its toll in our lives the truth is that God told us that those who "endure to the end" will be saved. Regardless of what happens to you or how bad you think your life is.

The key to the question is that imo for those who believe and those who don't believe is that the whole matter boils down to one thing. To understand that God, in this world and the next, is the only one in His universe that you can trust. When you trust God, the rest of the nonsense (and sin) in the world doesn't really matter.

You exist for a purpose (even if you don't have a clue what that purpose is) and if you trust God and ask Him for help I can tell you from first-hand experience He answers every prayer. We may not like His Answer, but that won't change His Answer.

Again, don't trust what the world says or does. Trust what God says and does (regardless of the nightmare you think your life is).

Finally, when Job acknowledged and trusted completely that God is in charge God provided Job TWICE as much as he had before evil literally put him through hell on this earth.
 
Hi Chrysanthemum7879
but a mere wish to turn down eternal existence especially when it causes no harm to anyone and when the person hasn't even sinned yet, is equal to or worst than all of those atrocities?
Yes, yes. But your born again friend apparently hasn't gotten to the part yet where it isn't about what they want. God is the Creator and what will be will be what God has said it will be. Now, when you create a world and people and whole civilizations, if you'd like to set it up as your friend would want you to, feel free.

But for this existence. I would question your friend's 'being saved', if they don't understand that outside of the eternal existence that God promises us... there is no other. According to the Scriptures, and Jesus' parable of the two roads, I think it's pretty clear that every man is destined to die once and then judgment. According to the Scriptures, that judgment will be either one's name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life... or it isn't. For those whose names are so writ, God has promised an eternal existence with Him and His Son. For those whose names are not so writ, God says they will be cast into the Lake of Fire with Satan and the demon angels and live a life of eternal torment.

So, your friend should understand that God isn't asking them what they think should be a fair eternal existence. Pssst. He's God.
 
Hi again Chrysanthemum7879
So it begs another question: why are people like us here? Why are we here?
Well, that's going to depend on who 'people like us' are. If one is a born again believer in the one true and living God, then they know that they are here to declare His glory to all people. To tell others of the great mercy and grace that He has shown the one speaking, and will show the hearer, if they will repent and turn to Him through His Son. They are here to do the work that God has established for them to do before the foundations of the creation were established.

If 'people like us' is not a born again believer, then they are here to hopefully find the way to eternal life before their death and judgment. And God leaves us here as His witnesses. Just as Jesus told the first apostles, those living with a faithful belief in him, were to be his witnesses in Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth. That's our job still.

But I believe the Scriptures are also pretty clear that we're not going to be particularly successful at it in numbers, but the quality will be the best.
 
but a mere wish to turn down eternal existence especially when it causes no harm to anyone and when the person hasn't even sinned yet, is equal to or worst than all of those atrocities?
Desiring not to exist does not necessarily mean that what the individual truly wants is non-existence, because we do not fully understand what it means to not exist. For example, an alcoholic may always want to drink, but refraining from drinking could actually lead them to the happiness they seek in alcohol. In the same way, the desire for non-existence might not be satisfied by actual non-existence.

Moreover, if someone truly desired never to exist, they would not have existed in the first place. Non-existence implies being erased from the past, present, and future. Therefore, a person who genuinely desires non-existence would never have come into existence in the first place, as this would negate the very cause of their being.

In short, it is a contradiction, much like saying "this sentence is false." It's just a paradox, a play on words, without any real substance.
 
On reddit, there was a user who made a post about asking God to wipe him/her from existence/consciousness after he/she did all he/she was supposed to do to be saved from eternal torment. Basically, he/she accepted Christ as his personal savior, but his/her plan is to ask God to return him/her back into a state of nonexistence now that the infinite debt of sin has been paid.

What perked my ears was the fact that almost all of the comments said that he/she deserved eternal darkness in conscious torment forever, comparing the desire to simply not exist to Satan's tyrannical desire to overtake God's Kingdom and rule and own the universe as his own, since he wanted to be God. There were several other users on Quora as well who did this.

So, this begs the question: HOW and WHY is the mere desire to not exist at all tantamount to someone with the narcissistic and egomanical desire to try to overtake somebody else's place, let alone their universe??? The person who doesn't want to exist at all forever doesn't want a thing from ANYBODY. They have absolutely NO interest in taking over anything or ruling anyone's life. They're not hurting anybody.

And it's interesting that while comparing the desire to choose nonexistence over eternal existence to the bold, arrogant desire of Lucifer to overthrow God, NONE of those people applied the same paradigm to people on Earth who lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder, etc. THOSE acts, just like Satan's attempt at overthrowing God, also play God, disrespect Him, destroy and ruin His creation and make life for everyone and everything living on Earth a living hell. Why isn't anyone saying "Are you God? Who said you have a choice over that?"

And we all know why: free will. So shouldn't the same apply to the choice between existing and not existing? Who is the person hurting or insulting? Also, theoretically, since the person never existed, they therefore wouldn't have been born in sin, wouldn't freely choose to sin, wouldn't need to be held accountable, and thus, no need for a Savior.

Their responses give the implication that simply the mere act of not wanting to exist in the first place is in of itself, a great evil for two reasons: 1. Since God created the soul, He intended for said soul to exist forever, so understandably, going against that design would be considered going against His will. 2. One could conclude that such an individual would only want such a thing if he/she simply wants to escape accountability for a lifetime of sin or avoid punishment.

They have a point, but there's a third alternative to consider: It could be that the person quite simply DOESN'T want Christ. They don't want to spend eternity in Hell not only due to the inevitable fellowhsip with some of the worst, most depraved, wicked people to have ever disgraced the Earth, but also other less discussed reasons such as a perpetually worsening spiritual and moral state and the obvious fact that nobody in their right mind would want to spend all of eternity in total darkness, loneliness, pain and misery with thoughts and a conscience that torment you (and not simply just because they want to escape punishment or accountability).

At the same time, the person...just doesn't want Christ.....it has nothing to do with sin, because there's plenty of sinners who DO want to spend eternity with God. They just don't have a desire or a passion to serve Christ for its own sake. Inevitably, they'll only want to come to Him if it's to avoid the alternative: Hell. And I'm NOT going to do that. You either want Him or you just don't. Bottom line.

So it begs another question: why are people like us here? Why are we here? The fact that there are only two eternal destinations after death and the fact that there's people who don't want God but are not necessarily evil in the truest sense of the word has solidified my belief (which in turn highlights Jesus' point when He said of Judas 'It would have been better if that man had never been born') that people like us should've never entered into existence.

That way, we wouldn't have a thing to complain or worry about. Know existence, know sin, know accountability. No existence, no sin, no accountability.

You have spoken of an unhappy person living below Rm.8, and with an unhappy past, with seemingly a whip of daft condemnations from Joe Public, akin to the silly idea that suicide is an unforgivable sin because one cannot repent of it in mortal life. I wonder if the person you mentioned was suffering from depressive illness.

Some hold that all the damned will simply be annihilated, which however is not to say that pre-annihilation they would not have existed. Contra [the person never existed]—it is a non sequitur—there simply would no longer be that person who had existed. There was a mosquito. I swatted it. There is no mosquito. There was a line from the terminus a quo; there is no line after the terminus ad quem. Indeed existence-terminated it is the default position of atheism, partly for logic with its presuppositions, and partly for the reason you posit, yet not not wanting Christ, so much as hating God, period. And even the former atheist Anthony Flew seemingly died with the hope of no longer existing: beyond unhappiness he’s now enjoying creative life with the lord.

Those who wish Christ (a postcode lottery: Rm.10:14) may choose him in mortal life (he’s neither fussy nor desperate). Those who do not wish Christ may not choose him, but might still enjoy God after death if they have a core desire for God—he’ll even throw in heaven for them. In The Last Battle (C S Lewis), Emeth had rejected Aslan knowingly, but after death realised that Aslan was the one his heart had unknowingly sought.

Annihilationism and its cousin Conditional Immortality, posits God either removing immortality or simply not conferring it. But if we are immortal souls with mortal bodies, can even God annihilate us? Free will, both God’s and ours, is limited to the intrinsically possible. Thus if our souls are immortal, we do not have the [choice between existing and not existing], even as I cannot choose to be a fish (a non-option), though we can have the wish between existing and not existing. Choice is only possible within the intrinsically possible.

[total darkness, loneliness, pain and misery] might overstate ultimate hell. Many Christians throughout the millennia have posited a bearable hell, unbearable only from heaven’s perspective. An Unbearable Hell is one reason why some Christians hold to Annihilationism, seeking to protect the idea of God as being fair (proportionality).

[people who don’t want God but are not necessarily evil], requires unpacking. Some atheists want (in the sense of desire; all in the sense of need) deity. Some atheists are evil at core if not in deed; some are not. Those who are not will find he whom they unknowingly seek beyond death, for God invites all but forces none, into his family, and will have invited them. By his grace our core will will be done in heaven (life with him) or in hell (life apart from him).

That we are conceived into existence is simply the way things are. [we wouldn’t have a thing to complain or worry about] if we did not exist. In which case, the term [we] would be empty of meaning, as in “the uncounted trillions of human beings never conceived know how lucky they are”: there is no They; there are no Trillions. My wife has had only one child. To say “she could have had children” would be meaningful, but to speak of “the children she hasn’t had” is meaningless—there are no children. I was conceived biologically; I am, and my life (like other mortal human beings) has ups and downs, and has purpose and meaning, for we exist within the framework of deific creation.

BTW I’d not equate ‘Lucifer’ with Satan—but that’s another topic.
 
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John chapter 3. Every one is born one time in the flesh. To decide to follow Satan or Jesus. Those who choose to follow Satan go to sheol. It's holding place for the wicked until judgment Day. Luke chapter 16. There are two sides of the Gulf. Righteous in paradise and wicked in sheol. A singer, Rhianna, was joking about hell couple years. There is nothing funny about it. Those on the side of sheol, are miserable, sad, fear and shame. Its expulsion from God until judgment Day. Sheol is not happy place.
 
So, this begs the question: HOW and WHY is the mere desire to not exist at all tantamount to someone with the narcissistic and egomanical desire to try to overtake somebody else's place, let alone their universe??? The person who doesn't want to exist at all forever doesn't want a thing from ANYBODY. They have absolutely NO interest in taking over anything or ruling anyone's life. They're not hurting anybody.
I'll suggest that all of those questions, at the root, do not matter, because all that matters, is that which God will decide to do with the person doing the desiring. Will He decide to save them, as He has for many? Will He decide to throw them into Sheol into flames which consumed them, as He did to that disobedient group as recorded in Numbers?
 
Why are we here?

Galileo believed that science and religion are allies rather than enemies-- two
different languages telling the same story. He believed that science and religion
complement each other: science answers questions that religion doesn't bother to
answer, and religion answers questions that science cannot answer.

For example: theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking understood pretty well how the
cosmos works; but could never scientifically explain why it should exist at all. Well;
in my estimation, the only possible answer to the "why" is found in intelligent
design; which is a religious explanation rather than scientific. Religion's "why" is
satisfactory for people of faith. No doubt deep thinkers like Michio Kaku, Neil
deGrasse Tyson, Michelle Thaller, and the late Carl Sagan would prefer something a
bit more empirical.
_
 
On reddit, there was a user who made a post about asking God to wipe him/her from existence/consciousness after he/she did all he/she was supposed to do to be saved from eternal torment. Basically, he/she accepted Christ as his personal savior, but his/her plan is to ask God to return him/her back into a state of nonexistence now that the infinite debt of sin has been paid.

What perked my ears was the fact that almost all of the comments said that he/she deserved eternal darkness in conscious torment forever, comparing the desire to simply not exist to Satan's tyrannical desire to overtake God's Kingdom and rule and own the universe as his own, since he wanted to be God. There were several other users on Quora as well who did this.

So, this begs the question: HOW and WHY is the mere desire to not exist at all tantamount to someone with the narcissistic and egomanical desire to try to overtake somebody else's place, let alone their universe??? The person who doesn't want to exist at all forever doesn't want a thing from ANYBODY. They have absolutely NO interest in taking over anything or ruling anyone's life. They're not hurting anybody.

And it's interesting that while comparing the desire to choose nonexistence over eternal existence to the bold, arrogant desire of Lucifer to overthrow God, NONE of those people applied the same paradigm to people on Earth who lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder, etc. THOSE acts, just like Satan's attempt at overthrowing God, also play God, disrespect Him, destroy and ruin His creation and make life for everyone and everything living on Earth a living hell. Why isn't anyone saying "Are you God? Who said you have a choice over that?"

And we all know why: free will. So shouldn't the same apply to the choice between existing and not existing? Who is the person hurting or insulting? Also, theoretically, since the person never existed, they therefore wouldn't have been born in sin, wouldn't freely choose to sin, wouldn't need to be held accountable, and thus, no need for a Savior.

Their responses give the implication that simply the mere act of not wanting to exist in the first place is in of itself, a great evil for two reasons: 1. Since God created the soul, He intended for said soul to exist forever, so understandably, going against that design would be considered going against His will. 2. One could conclude that such an individual would only want such a thing if he/she simply wants to escape accountability for a lifetime of sin or avoid punishment.

They have a point, but there's a third alternative to consider: It could be that the person quite simply DOESN'T want Christ. They don't want to spend eternity in Hell not only due to the inevitable fellowhsip with some of the worst, most depraved, wicked people to have ever disgraced the Earth, but also other less discussed reasons such as a perpetually worsening spiritual and moral state and the obvious fact that nobody in their right mind would want to spend all of eternity in total darkness, loneliness, pain and misery with thoughts and a conscience that torment you (and not simply just because they want to escape punishment or accountability).

At the same time, the person...just doesn't want Christ.....it has nothing to do with sin, because there's plenty of sinners who DO want to spend eternity with God. They just don't have a desire or a passion to serve Christ for its own sake. Inevitably, they'll only want to come to Him if it's to avoid the alternative: Hell. And I'm NOT going to do that. You either want Him or you just don't. Bottom line.

So it begs another question: why are people like us here? Why are we here? The fact that there are only two eternal destinations after death and the fact that there's people who don't want God but are not necessarily evil in the truest sense of the word has solidified my belief (which in turn highlights Jesus' point when He said of Judas 'It would have been better if that man had never been born') that people like us should've never entered into existence.

That way, we wouldn't have a thing to complain or worry about. Know existence, know sin, know accountability. No existence, no sin, no accountability.
In a nutshell they are not accepting God’s free gift therefore would only deserve eternal separation from God.
God only ever gives us two options, accept His free gift or reject it.
 
On reddit, there was a user who made a post about asking God to wipe him/her from
existence/consciousness after he/she did all he/she was supposed to do to be saved from eternal
torment. Basically, he/she accepted Christ as his personal savior, but his/her plan is to ask God to
return him/her back into a state of nonexistence now that the infinite debt of sin has been paid.

Well; I really think if that person knew what they'd be missing, they might be
persuaded to change their mind about non existence.

To begin with: everyone adopted into God's family circle are treated as His
legitimate heirs the same as if they were His paternal offspring, and their names
are listed as beneficiaries in a trust fund right along with Christ's (Rom 8:15-17,
Gal 4:4-7, Eph 1:4-5). Now, I don't know the full extent of God's estate but for sure
it has to be pretty impressive.

And then there's this:

To the best of my knowledge thus far; Jesus is on track to return to Jerusalem
seven years after the rapture to set up the theocratic kingdom predicted in the old
testament, and of course everyone unified with him will return too. Well; I for one
plan on taking some time off to tour all the sights I missed this time around.

For example, the only foreign country I've ever been to is Mexico and even then
just the border towns of Tijuana and Tecate so I have a lot to catch up on; that's if
anything is left. It appears to me from accounts in the book of Revelation that the
world will undergo catastrophic damage during the interim between the rapture and
when the Lord gets back so I may be in for some disappointment on a few fronts.

Oh! and another thing; according to Matt 26:29, Luke 22:15-16, and Luke 22:28
30, folks who make the cut for the kingdom will be able to dine upon ordinary foods
and beverages. Just imagine the pleasure of touring the world and tasting samples
of cuisine in every culture on earth; and in perfect safety too because according to
Isa 2:4 there won't be any war zones to worry about; and Isa 11:6-9 suggests that
danger from the animal kingdom will no longer be a concern.
_
 
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