Heresy of the Judaizers

[Solo]

I am learning something very unique about the conditional salvation teachings and those who are proponents of same (other than those who are babes in Christ, and those who have not prayerfully studied this topic); it is just like the Judaizers that Paul and the Apostles contended with in teaching the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in that we are saved of grace through faith, not of works, not of keeping the law.

I have recently learned that the legalistic teachings of this heresy still exists today, and in the format that it is subtly applied.

Beware that you do not fall into this foolishness as documented in Paul's writings to the Galatians.

• 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-7
  
  1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:1-14

 

[XTruth]

I am learning something very unique about the conditional salvation teachings and those who are proponents of same (other than those who are babes in Christ, and those who have not prayerfully studied this topic); it is just like the Judaizers that Paul and the Apostles contended with in teaching the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in that we are saved of grace through faith, not of works, not of keeping the law.

I have recently learned that the legalistic teachings of this heresy still exists today, and in the format that it is subtly applied.

Beware that you do not fall into this foolishness as documented in Paul's writings to the Galatians.

• 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-7
  
  1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:1-14

Okay, I've told you before about this, and I have to do it again. This is like starting a thread against the KKK mind set that believes themselves to be Christian, while hating all other races....there are no Christians like that on this forum!

All here believe that it is only by grace we are saved from all past sin and not by our own works. You are fighting a battle that doesn't exist.

 

[lovely]

Solo, I just read this thread, and I did feel the need to distinguish my own thoughts about this just now on another thread. The Lord bless you, Michael.

 

[Pogo]

XTruth,

AMEN!

 

[Joe67]

Solo,

When my thoughts of God were bound under conditionalism, which is, as you testified, a good childish beginning; then the testimony of God in Colossians 2 did not find a place in my heart. The voice of God did not convict me of sin through the warning in Colossians 2.

The hour and day came when the Father was pleased to reveal his Son to me in his full radiance in the inner man and now that Scripture and others are alive with understanding revealing the sovereign grace of God in his choice and election before the world began.

The grace of God gives me not to despise the necessary schoolmaster's work whereby the Father prepared my inward man for the mature revelation of his holy child, Jesus our Lord.

Now God gives me to rejoice in suffering for the body of Christ, even for those who are still living with the bond woman and her son.

Joe

 

[Solo]

Solo,

When my thoughts of God were bound under conditionalism, which is, as you testified, a good childish beginning; then the testimony of God in Colossians 2 did not find a place in my heart. The voice of God did not convict me of sin through the warning in Colossians 2.

The hour and day came when the Father was pleased to reveal his Son to me in his full radiance in the inner man and now that Scripture and others are alive with understanding revealing the sovereign grace of God in his choice and election before the world began.

The grace of God gives me not to despise the necessary schoolmaster's work whereby the Father prepared my inward man for the mature revelation of his holy child, Jesus our Lord.

Now God gives me to rejoice in suffering for the body of Christ, even for those who are still living with the bond woman and her son.

Joe

Great testimony Joe! Thanks.

Again, Paul states twice for emphasis, the following:

• 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:8-9

Pretty dangerous ground for one whose salvation is a conditional salvation, and teaching that Salvation being the grace of God through faith and not of works, is not enough to gain one access into the kingdom of God.

 

[XTruth]

Solo,

When my thoughts of God were bound under conditionalism, which is, as you testified, a good childish beginning; then the testimony of God in Colossians 2 did not find a place in my heart. The voice of God did not convict me of sin through the warning in Colossians 2.

The hour and day came when the Father was pleased to reveal his Son to me in his full radiance in the inner man and now that Scripture and others are alive with understanding revealing the sovereign grace of God in his choice and election before the world began.

The grace of God gives me not to despise the necessary schoolmaster's work whereby the Father prepared my inward man for the mature revelation of his holy child, Jesus our Lord.

Now God gives me to rejoice in suffering for the body of Christ, even for those who are still living with the bond woman and her son.

Joe

Great testimony Joe! Thanks.

Again, Paul states twice for emphasis, the following:

• 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:8-9

Pretty dangerous ground for one whose salvation is a conditional salvation, and teaching that Salvation being the grace of God through faith and not of works, is not enough to gain one access into the kingdom of God.

I actually agree completely w/ this post completely if anyone here had said or claimed that...but no one has.

I have noticed in the past weeks that you go to Galatians often, while holding that salvation cannot be lost. This is odd to me, and this is why:

1) These Christians were soon removed from Christ (Gal.1:6). How can they be removed if they were never in Him? Yet they were in Christ at one point b/c Paul calls them brethren and part of the church (vs.2) and claims Jesus as theirs (vs.3) and they had to have grace in order to be removed, which is said to be true in vs.6.

2) They permitted false teachers to pervert the gospel of Christ (vs.7; 5:8-12).

3) Were bewitched from obedience to the gospel of Christ (3:1; 5:7).

4) Were crucifying Christ anew (3:1).

5) Attributing their gospel blessings to the law of Moses (3:2).

6) Beginning in the Spirit and seeking perfection in the flesh (3:3).

7) Were suffering for the gospel in vain by losing gospel benefits (3:4).

8) Going back to the law of works to be justified (3:10-12; 5:4).

9) Turning back to weak and beggerly elements of the world (4:9).

10) Desiring to be in bondage (4:9, 21).

11) Going back to observance of sabbaths and other festivals of the law (4:9-10).

12) Considered Paul an enemy for telling them the truth (4:16).

13) Were zealous for wrong things (4:17-18).

14) Backslidden and in need of rebirth again (4:19).

15) Were back in law of bondage (5:1).

16) Being convinced of circumcision (5:2).

17) Were fallen from grace (1:6; 5:4).

18) Using liberty as an occasion to the flesh to commit sin (5:13)

19) Biting and devouring one another (5:15, 26).

20)sought to escape persecutions of the cross (6:12).

So even though I know you are viewing Christians who believe in conditional security with these Jewish Christians who went back to practicing customs from the abolished Mosaic Law, one thing is clear from the Book of Galatians; they were saved by begining in the Spirit (3:3) and in Christ (1:3, 6) and had to have grace in order to fall from it (1:6; 5:4), yet had lost salvation by going back to a covenant that never justified in the first place (2:16; 3:11; 5:4), if observed, cancels grace (5:4), and brings only a curse (3:10).

One last note, the Mosaic Law makes servants. not sons (4:1-3) and could not give the new birth (4:28-30). Adam was a son of God "38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God (Lk.3:38)." Yet sin brought a curse on him as well (Gen.3:7-19). Same with angels and Israel and Christians. All called sons and all have been proven to be cursed and damned by sin. We must keep commandments of the gospel of Christ in order to not sin. How is this confused with going to the law of Moses for justification like the Galatians did, which no one has claimed to be doing, even have denied the entire accusation?

 

[Solo]

And they remain brothers in Christ according to Paul.

• 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. 18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. Galatians 6:15-18

As a side bar, I am discerning that you are sounding more and more like accuser of the brethren. You had better examine yourself to see whether or not Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are a reprobate.

• Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Corinthians 13:5

I have not been wrong in my spiritual gift of the discerning of spirits over the last 25 years of my salvation as I walk in the Spirit.

 

[XTruth]

And they remain brothers in Christ according to Paul.

• 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. 18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. Galatians 6:15-18

As a side bar, I am discerning that you are sounding more and more like accuser of the brethren. You had better examine yourself to see whether or not Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are a reprobate.

• Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Corinthians 13:5

I have not been wrong in my spiritual gift of the discerning of spirits over the last 25 years of my salvation as I walk in the Spirit.

I am not accusing the brethren. I fight against a doctrine in the church that I believe to be the most dangerous doctrine accepted in the Christian faith. Even Paul was considered an enemy for telling them the truth (4:16), not that you consider me an enemy.

That is always good advise...2 Cor.13:5.

Years in the faith isn't reason to stop testing the spirits (1 Jn.4:1-4). Even Billy Graham has been led astray in his last years, and look at his life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx29MRL4L6c

Anyway, The earlier part of the chapter you quoted from says that those that sow to the flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, and the chapter before that says that no one guilty of sin will inherit the kingdom of God (Gal.5:19-21). This is a warning written to these Christians who had been born again, as we have both agreed. Why such vain words from Paul if future sin does not condemn the new creature? Are you sure you want to use Gal.6:16? There is a rule in it that must be kept. The rule is that redemption is through Jesus Christ apart from circumcision, sabbath keeping, and all the law of Moses (Gal.1:6-8; 2:15-21; 3:13-14, 19-29; 4:1-10; 5:1-7, 11; 6:12-15). This is all entirely true, but can a born again Christian still be saved if they go to the Mosaic Law for justification?
If you say yes, then you contradict Paul 1) These Christians were soon removed from Christ (Gal.1:6). How can they be removed if they were never in Him? Yet they were in Christ at one point b/c Paul calls them brethren and part of the church (vs.2) and claims Jesus as theirs (vs.3) and they had to have grace in order to be removed, which is said to be true in vs.6.
2) They permitted false teachers to pervert the gospel of Christ (vs.7; 5:8-12).
3) Were bewitched from obedience to the gospel of Christ (3:1; 5:7).
4) Were crucifying Christ anew (3:1).
5) Attributing their gospel blessings to the law of Moses (3:2).
6) Beginning in the Spirit and seeking perfection in the flesh (3:3).
7) Were suffering for the gospel in vain by losing gospel benefits (3:4).
8) Going back to the law of works to be justified (3:10-12; 5:4).
9) Turning back to weak and beggerly elements of the world (4:9).
10) Desiring to be in bondage (4:9, 21).
11) Going back to observance of sabbaths and other festivals of the law (4:9-10).
12) Considered Paul an enemy for telling them the truth (4:16).
13) Were zealous for wrong things (4:17-18).
14) Backslidden and in need of rebirth again (4:19).
15) Were back in law of bondage (5:1).
16) Being convinced of circumcision (5:2).
17) Were fallen from grace (1:6; 5:4).
18) Using liberty as an occasion to the flesh to commit sin (5:13)
19) Biting and devouring one another (5:15, 26).
20)sought to escape persecutions of the cross (6:12).

If you say no, then you contradict yourself who says they were still saved when they went to the Mosaic Law for justification and had began in the Spirit and sought perfection in the flesh (3:3; 5:19-21). No one who is left guilty of sin has any inheritance in the kingdom of God, and these Christians were doing these things (gAL.5:19-21).

 

[Cornelius]

I think it can be summed up in this scripture. Because, although many claim "salvation" and then go and sit , because it is now a done deal.

But this scripture would differ:

Hereby we know that we are in him:
1Jn 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.

So its really not in our talk, but it is in our walk. We can talk all we want , and claim salvation, but if we say we abide in Him. we ought to also walk even as He walked.

No walk, no salvation.

 

[Solo]

I think it can be summed up in this scripture. Because, although many claim "salvation" and then go and sit , because it is now a done deal.

But this scripture would differ:

Hereby we know that we are in him:
1Jn 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.

So its really not in our talk, but it is in our walk. We can talk all we want , and claim salvation, but if we say we abide in Him. we ought to also walk even as He walked.

No walk, no salvation.

Salvation comes first, then the walk. Until one is born again, and sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, one does not have a walk.

A born again person can not be unborn from the life that they have in Christ Jesus, no matter how much wood, hay, and stubble they build on the foundation of their faith.

 

[Cornelius]

A born again person can not be unborn from the life that they have in Christ Jesus, no matter how much wood, hay, and stubble they build on the foundation of their faith.

The Bible disagrees with you. It indeed tells us that we can be "twice dead" . To become "twice dead" you first have to be "twice born".........born again.

Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: (Notice they are Christians who feast with us)

clouds [they are] without water, (They teach no truth, they have no substance , they have no real Word)

carried about of winds; (every wind of doctrine carry them with )


trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, ( Ye shall know them by their fruit. Notice that they did have Christian fruit, but it .......withereth )

twice dead, (Born again, but now they are dying again)

plucked up by the roots; (Well they started sprouting roots, they started the walk, but their fruit withered and they again died )

Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea,(Doubleminded people are like the waves of the sea ...doubleminded, because they sometimes believe, and sometimes not ......but there are days that they believe)

foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, (Abraham's children (believers) are spoken of as "stars")

to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. (They are lost again)

 

[Pogo]

Posted by Solo...
A born again person can not be unborn from the life that they have in Christ Jesus, no matter how much wood, hay, and stubble they build on the foundation of their faith.

Solo, I see that you are mis-interpreting the scriptures somewhere.

The passage below clearly disputes your above posotion!

1 Timothy 1:18-20 KJV
(18) This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
(19) Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
(20) Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[Cornelius]

Posted by Solo...
A born again person can not be unborn from the life that they have in Christ Jesus, no matter how much wood, hay, and stubble they build on the foundation of their faith.

Solo, I see that you are mis-interpreting the scriptures somewhere.

The passage below clearly disputes your above posotion!

1 Timothy 1:18-20 KJV
(18) This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
(19) Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
(20) Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

In Christ,

Pogo

Amen, this is that scripture in the ASV

1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, my child Timothy, according to the prophecies which led the way to thee, that by them thou mayest war the good warfare;
1Ti 1:19 holding faith and a good conscience; which some having thrust from them made shipwreck concerning the faith:
1Ti 1:20 of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I delivered unto Satan, that they might be taught not to blaspheme.

shipwreck: They sank.

 

[stovebolts]

Just a few questions to ponder.

1. Define 'Being Justified by faith'
2. Define 'Salvation through faith'
3. Define 'Born Again'
4. Is Justification the same as Salvation the same as Born Again?
5. Can the words Born Again, Salvation and Justification be used interchangeably to mean the same thing?

A. Define Faith
B. Define Hope
C. Define Grace
D. Is Grace the same as Hope the same as Faith?
E. Can the words, Faith, Hope and Grace be used interchangeably to mean the same thing?

 

[mondar]

.....

I have not been following this thread, but I always liked internet quizes.

1. Define 'Being Justified by faith'
* That moment in time when the Divine Judge, the Father, bangs his gavel and pronounces the sinner to be innocent after meeting the requirement of faith in Christs shed blood.

2. Define 'Salvation through faith'
* That trust in the crosswork of Christ that saves.

3. Define 'Born Again'
* An action of the Holy Spirit whereby he regenerates the chosen person so that he will believe in the cross work of Christ.

4. Is Justification the same as Salvation the same as Born Again?
Not really. Justification is a forensic term relating to a courtroom decision, Born again is a ministry of the spirit in which he breaks the mastery of the sin nature over the unbeliever, Salvation is an umbrella term that applies to all the ministries of God that bring us to a right standing before him.

5. Can the words Born Again, Salvation and Justification be used interchangeably to mean the same thing?
No.

A. Define Faith-- Trusting in something unseen.
B. Define Hope-- The eager expectations of something to come
C. Define Grace- The unmeritied and unearned favor of God.
D. Is Grace the same as Hope the same as Faith? --- No
E. Can the words, Faith, Hope and Grace be used interchangeably to mean the same thing? -- No.[/quote]

 

[Joe67]

Just a few questions to ponder.

1. Define 'Being Justified by faith'
2. Define 'Salvation through faith'
3. Define 'Born Again'
4. Is Justification the same as Salvation the same as Born Again?
5. Can the words Born Again, Salvation and Justification be used interchangeably to mean the same thing?

A. Define Faith
B. Define Hope
C. Define Grace
D. Is Grace the same as Hope the same as Faith?
E. Can the words, Faith, Hope and Grace be used interchangeably to mean the same thing?

StoveBolts,

Once again, these are some very challenging questions; similar to the thoughts on the "Poll" thread. You said that you will not be able to answer replys for a while (or did I misunderstand). I prefer for you to be available before responding. I will watch until you are on the threads again.

Joe

 

[Imagican]

I feel compelled to ask this:

Were those that Paul wrote to in Corinth 'saved'? Were these Baptized INTO Christ? Were these 'faithful'?

The purpose behind these questions is that IF the answer to the above is YES, then 'what is the purpose of Paul's rebuke'?

For they were chastised and COMMANDED to 'grow up'. We can also see that these were accused of allowing 'sin' into The Church in ways that even those that DIDN'T 'believe' wouldn't allow. Further reading of the acusations indicate that these were SLIPPING BACK into what they previously practiced, (previous to their introduction to Christ).

But those that believe that 'OSAS' don't BELIEVE that this is POSSIBLE. That once saved, one MUST follow a 'certain path'. That it is NOT through THEIR WILL but accomplished THROUGH Spirit.

Paul's writtings are rife with warnings against such beliefs as OSAS. Over and over he offers that it is, not only possible, but inevitable that one 'fall from grace' IF they were not dilligent in their efforts.

Question: IF OSAS, then EXPLAIN how Satan was ABLE to 'fall from grace'. For we KNOW that Satan was once the most gifted angel in heaven, only to CHANGE his allegiance and eventually be 'cast out' at the end of the 'battle in heaven'. Him AND those that 'followed HIM'.

I am not attempting to offer 'doom and gloom' for the sake of self. What I offer is in an attempt to KEEP those that may be lured into this 'kind of belief' from following that which is potentially hazardous to their walk. For we can clearly see through daily LIFE, (and I do NOT refer to 'the world'), that there is LITTLE that is able to be obtained WITHOUT limitations. That 'he that will not work does NOT even earn a meal. Or, follow the laws of the land or suffer the wrath of the judge.

To believe that the 'gift' was offered and once accepted 'every thing is OK' is like choosing to ignore all that has been offered IN CONDITION. Like believing that 'once the gift was offered, ALL will receive it. Yet the Word DISTINCTLY states that ALL WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. And it goes even further in a explanation that NOT EVEN ALL THAT consider themselves to BE 'followers of Christ' are even KNOWN by Christ. With an understanding of JUST these TWO statements, we can then SEE that OSAS cannot 'hold water'.

Once again folks, 'fear and trembling'. There would be NO NEED for such to be offered IF once one comes to Christ they are unable to lose that which was once found. Our Salvation is NOT to be 'granted by OURSELVES'. It is most definitely a 'gift'. And as with ANY gift, whoso gives it is certainly able to decided 'what conditions' are demanded in order to receive. And this same applies to what can be 'taken back'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Drew]

I am learning something very unique about the conditional salvation teachings and those who are proponents of same (other than those who are babes in Christ, and those who have not prayerfully studied this topic); it is just like the Judaizers that Paul and the Apostles contended with in teaching the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in that we are saved of grace through faith, not of works, not of keeping the law.

I think that this position needs to be elaborated a little bit to match the Scriptural picture. Paul is certainly arguing against the position that one can be saved by following the practices of the Torah. Here, as often the case elsewhere, Paul uses the terms "works" and "the law" to refer specifically to the Torah - the Law of Moses.

He is not making a more general statement that "good works" are not connected to salvation - he clearly thinks they are as per this from Romans 2:

God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

However, I think it is clear from the overall corpus of Paul's writing that these "good works" that lead to salvation are not the product of moral self-effort, but are rather the work of Holy Spirit in the life of a believer. And the Holy Spirit is given purely on the basis of faith. So if you want to argue that these "good works", which are clearly the basis of salvation as per Romans 2, are really just "evidence" of a more foundational saving faith, I would be happy to agree with that.

 

[Imagican]

We are NO LONGER 'bound' to death by 'the law'. But that does NOT insure us that we are NOT bound to TRUTH. What was once only understood THROUGH 'the law', is NOW able to be placed within our HEARTS instead.

This does NOT FREE us FROM THE LAW. It actually holds us MORE accountable than those that simply followed a 'written set of instruction'. For NOW we are ABLE to come unto a PERFECT understanding of LOVE and thus are BOUND to it in TRUTH.

What I find interesting is that there are SO MANY 'so called Christians' that DO NOT understand this. So many that seem to THINK and BELIEVE that ALL that is required of them is to SAY that they BELIEVE and this is counted as ACTUAL BELIEF.

Christ stated that the LAW offered divorce due to the HARDNESS of men's hearts. But HE said that what God hath joined together is NOT ABLE TO BE SEPEPARATED REGARDLESS. So, WHO do you believe? Those that would offer 'something different' or the words of CHRIST HIMSELF?

Christ stated that 'Moses' law' offered condemnation for those that STEAL. But HE offered that one that even THINKS of such has ALREADY committed this sin in his HEART.

As I have previously tried to 'get across' to those that don't 'seem' to understand; Judgement will be SURE and TRUE. When it comes time, we will NOT be judged by WHAT we have DONE, but, by WHY we have DONE IT. And the truth is in OUR OWN HEARTS. Our hearts will be made transparent so that we will KNOW that our judgement, (HOW we are judged), IS TRUE. We will CONDEMN OURSELVES through what IS IN OUR HEARTS.

I know this concept is difficult for many to accept. But ALL that we have EVER DONE was done FOR a 'reason'. And that REASON will NEVER simply 'disappear' to be lost for eternity. IT IS what will be USED as a TOOL of our OWN INDIVIDUAL JUDGEMENT. Much like watching a 'vidoe' of one's life as is CONTAINED within our HEARTS, so too will ALL that we have EVER done be brought to fruition upon our judgement. What the means of reconcilliation is, we DON'T know, for that is NOT within our grasps at present. But that there WILL be 'some sort of method' is without doubt.

With this concept in mind, imagine the judgement that would be betowed upon such a doctrine as OSAS. And, not only upon them that 'BELIEVE', but MORE SO upon those that have made effort to convince OTHERS of such. Beware of 'what you teach'. For them that choose to DO SO are held to an even HIGHER standard of JUDGEMENT.

Blessings,

MEC