Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Heresy

Heidi

Member
Heresy is when God is blasphemed either by his Word being blasphemed or his name being blasphemed. Yet the catholic church thinks heresy is when the pope and the church doctrine are blasphemed. They therefore, very obviously consider themselves God. Blasphemy cannot occur unless it's against God. So the heretics are the catholics who blaspheme God by declaring that the pope takes the place of our Father in heaven as our Holy Father.

Yet they are the first ones to put to death those who don't think they pope is God. They've done it all throughout the centuries. Where does the NT say that any Christian should kill another Christian? :o And do catholics think they should continue that because it's traditional? :o
 
Are you speaking of the Inquistions where thousands of lives were saved the one true Church?

Where the Inquistion stopped unjust executions? Where people were given fair trials?

You must be thinking of the protestant version where 93 million people were claimed to be killed by the Church.

If you study, you'll see that punishment from the Church was excommunication. When the state got hold of them the punishment was death.
 
ttg said:
Are you speaking of the Inquistions where thousands of lives were saved the one true Church?

Where the Inquistion stopped unjust executions? Where people were given fair trials?

You must be thinking of the protestant version where 93 million people were claimed to be killed by the Church.

If you study, you'll see that punishment from the Church was excommunication. When the state got hold of them the punishment was death.

The crusades were done in full compliance with the vatican and many popes ordered their people to go to war. The papacy has never rendered unto Caesar what is Caesar's and rendered unto God what is God's as Jesus tells us to do.

And any church, be it protestant or Catholic, who orders war and executions is disobeying Christ because Jesus tells us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, not to kill them. They therefore are not coming from the Spirit of Christ but their own sin.

Anyone can call himself a man of God. It's not hard to do at all. But it is their fruits that show who is approved by God and who is not.
 
ttg said:
If you study, you'll see that punishment from the Church was excommunication. When the state got hold of them the punishment was death.

Wow,

I thought Catholics don't think like this any more. Is your Catholics' practice still the same as the dark ages?
 
Does the Church still believe in and practice excommunication? Of course. Why do you only go back to the "dark ages"? The Church is much older than that.


It is widely reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of a kind not found even among pagans--a man living with his father's wife. And you are inflated with pride. Should you not rather have been sorrowful? The one who did this deed should be expelled from your midst. I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgment on the one who has committed this deed, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus: when you have gathered together and I am with you in spirit with the power of the Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. Your boasting is not appropriate. Do you not know that a little yeast leavens all the dough? Clear out the old yeast, so that you may become a fresh batch of dough, inasmuch as you are unleavened. For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people, not at all referring to the immoral of this world or the greedy and robbers or idolaters; for you would then have to leave the world. But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person. For why should I be judging outsiders? Is it not your business to judge those within? God will judge those outside. "Purge the evil person from your midst."
1Cor. 5:1-13
 
Heidi said:
ttg said:
Are you speaking of the Inquistions where thousands of lives were saved the one true Church?

Where the Inquistion stopped unjust executions? Where people were given fair trials?

You must be thinking of the protestant version where 93 million people were claimed to be killed by the Church.

If you study, you'll see that punishment from the Church was excommunication. When the state got hold of them the punishment was death.

The crusades were done in full compliance with the vatican and many popes ordered their people to go to war. The papacy has never rendered unto Caesar what is Caesar's and rendered unto God what is God's as Jesus tells us to do.

And any church, be it protestant or Catholic, who orders war and executions is disobeying Christ because Jesus tells us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, not to kill them. They therefore are not coming from the Spirit of Christ but their own sin.

Anyone can call himself a man of God. It's not hard to do at all. But it is their fruits that show who is approved by God and who is not.

Islam had taken over much of Europe before the Church stepped in. Enjoying your Christianity? Thank a crusader.
 
ttg said:
Heidi said:
ttg said:
Are you speaking of the Inquistions where thousands of lives were saved the one true Church?

Where the Inquistion stopped unjust executions? Where people were given fair trials?

You must be thinking of the protestant version where 93 million people were claimed to be killed by the Church.

If you study, you'll see that punishment from the Church was excommunication. When the state got hold of them the punishment was death.

The crusades were done in full compliance with the vatican and many popes ordered their people to go to war. The papacy has never rendered unto Caesar what is Caesar's and rendered unto God what is God's as Jesus tells us to do.

And any church, be it protestant or Catholic, who orders war and executions is disobeying Christ because Jesus tells us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek, not to kill them. They therefore are not coming from the Spirit of Christ but their own sin.

Anyone can call himself a man of God. It's not hard to do at all. But it is their fruits that show who is approved by God and who is not.

Islam had taken over much of Europe before the Church stepped in. Enjoying your Christianity? Thank a crusader.

Sorry, but it's God who keeps Christianity going, not killers. Crusaders did more to hurt Christianity than any other group of Christians. The Muslims constantly use the crusades as showing that Christians justfiy killing people which we do not. If you think that people are bigger than God, then you've got a lot to learn, my friend. ;-)
 
God works through people who actually do things, not people who hide behind keyboards and make snide remarks.

Do you think Christianity would be where it is today if it weren't for the Crusades? Try to answer without making a comment about me.
 
Thank you Heide for starting this thread. I cannot believe what I am hearing from Catholics.
 
ttg said:
God works through people who actually do things, not people who hide behind keyboards and make snide remarks.

Do you think Christianity would be where it is today if it weren't for the Crusades? Try to answer without making a comment about me.

Nothing is impossible with God. Or don't you believe God is bigger than man?

Christianity existed before the crusades and it will flourish because of the Holy Spirit which God will send to all his chosen. God's call is irrevocable. Those who receive the Holy Spirit will keep on passing along the gospel no matter what happens in this world. And only those chosen before the creation of the world will believe the gospel anyway.
 
gingercat said:
Thank you Heide for starting this thread. I cannot believe what I am hearing from Catholics.

You're not hearing this from Catholics, you're hearing this from one Catholic.

I'm not speaking for the Church or anybody else, this is my opinion.

And Heidi, please be more specific. If tonight you went to bed and wished the Crusades never happened because the new media say its not politically correct to fight back when your land is being conquered. I say you would have to put on your burqua before stepping out the door. You say "Oh, God would fix it." How?
 
Heidi,

You need to read your Bible more if you think God is not about killing!

The Catholics do not contradict the God of the Bible by the Inquisition!

Deuteronomy 7:1-2: "... the seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them."

Joshua 6:21: "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

Joshua 10:40-41: "So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote them from Kadesh-barnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon."

 
Soma,

Do you know Jesus says "love your enemy"? He also says no more eye for eye and tooth for tooth. We don't live in the OT time and God is not ordering us to kill people anymore like in the OT time.
 
gingercat said:
Soma,

Do you know Jesus says "love your enemy"? He also says no more eye for eye and tooth for tooth. We don't live in the OT time and God is not ordering us to kill people anymore like in the OT time.

Right on, gingercat. Soma has no idea what Paul means when he said the OT was just a shadow, not the realities themselves. OT existed to show us what is right, wrong, just, and unjust. But now we are in the new convenant and we leave vengeance to God, not to ourselves. And since Soma doesn't believe the NT when Jesus tells us to love our enemies instead of killing them, then neither can he understand the OT because the whole bible is the Word of God and therefore cannot be contradicted which he is trying to do. :)
 
Heidi said:
gingercat said:
Soma,

Do you know Jesus says "love your enemy"? He also says no more eye for eye and tooth for tooth. We don't live in the OT time and God is not ordering us to kill people anymore like in the OT time.

Right on, gingercat. Soma has no idea what Paul means when he said the OT was just a shadow, not the realities themselves. OT existed to show us what is right, wrong, just, and unjust. But now we are in the new convenant and we leave vengeance to God, not to ourselves. And since Soma doesn't believe the NT when Jesus tells us to love our enemies instead of killing them, then neither can he understand the OT because the whole bible is the Word of God and therefore cannot be contradicted which he is trying to do. :)


Did Jesus forget the "love your enemies" in this verse? This is very strong language....

Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Implying Jesus' second coming.....doesn't sound like there is a turning of the other cheek here.....Jesus' is coming back to kick butt and take names...

Is there an inbetween in this situation? Who knows.....

Jesus does promote "love your enemies" as what the Torah teaches...Who is the enemy? I'm pretty sure in this case it is a Jewish brother who is at odds with the offended....as Mosaic Law was still in effect, idol worship (pagan religions) were abhorred by Jews....so idol worshippers may be considered enemies...would loving them be considered....complacency? I think that is a refection of why the USA is going down the slippery slope of Moral depravity.....loving the enemy enough to allow moral complacency....

Just some random crazy thoughts.....
 
Georges said:
...loving the enemy enough to allow moral complacency....

Just some random crazy thoughts.....


It is a good question, but Jesus never killed anyone, and He does not want us to kill anyone because they are evil or immoral. the OT time is over. Revenge is His and not us humans' especially not His followers'.
 
gingercat said:
Georges said:
...loving the enemy enough to allow moral complacency....

Just some random crazy thoughts.....


It is a good question, but Jesus never killed anyone, and He does not want us to kill anyone because they are evil or immoral. the OT time is over. Revenge is His and not us humans' especially not His followers'.

Did Jesus love, or whip the moneychangers.....? Did he turn a blind eye?
Perhaps whipped the moneychangers out of love.....
 
Revelations 22: 11, "Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."

When we treat our perpetrators the way they treat us, then we are no better than them. ;-)
 
Georges said:
gingercat said:
Georges said:
...loving the enemy enough to allow moral complacency....

Just some random crazy thoughts.....


It is a good question, but Jesus never killed anyone, and He does not want us to kill anyone because they are evil or immoral. the OT time is over. Revenge is His and not us humans' especially not His followers'.

Did Jesus love, or whip the moneychangers.....? Did he turn a blind eye?
Perhaps whipped the moneychangers out of love.....

Jesus was here to preach the truth of God's word, convict the guilty and save those who admit their guilt. He did not attack the moneychangers but only the tables that represented their greed. They do not belong in God's house of worship and neither does the bank stored in the vatican. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's."

There's a huge difference between righteous anger and sinful anger. Righeous anger is when God is desecrated and sinful anger is when we ourselves are offended. The forer is righteous, the latter is slefish.
 
Georges said:
Did Jesus love, or whip the moneychangers.....? Did he turn a blind eye?
Perhaps whipped the moneychangers out of love.....

Georges,

You are missing my point; Jesus did not kill anyone.[/b]
 
Back
Top