Higgs Boson

[DarkHorseRising]

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If God was fake, would you waste your time still believing in him?

I've seen this question answered several times before, and the problem is that no matter how well thought out an answer the responder gives, they are presented as "admitting God doesn't exist". I'm therefore not touching it, but will watch and see if anyone else wants to.

 

[Atothetheist]

I've seen this question answered several times before, and the problem is that no matter how well thought out an answer the responder gives, they are presented as "admitting God doesn't exist". I'm therefore not touching it, but will watch and see if anyone else wants to.

You are right to stay away from it, do you know why, it's a fallacy. I was testing you guys. This is what is called a loaded question. Staying away from it is the best choice, because eitherway you look "You admit God doesn't exsist."

Paschels wager is another loaded question.

Darkhorse, now you know how I feel when I am being asked Paschels wager. Except for is time, I thought not answering it would make the guy think I was incompetent.

 

[Atothetheist]

Now... Can we get back on topic?

 

[farouk]

A: Sooner or later it's a case of: come to terms with the Bible for yourself.

Or go some place else.

 

[duari91]

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.... This is really frustrating. In the Bible, the old testament specifically, it tells you to kill people who worship other Gods... If God doesn't EVER contridict himself, then why not do it now?

This is extremely annoying. I was asking a counter question. Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Messiah... Or at least thats what I think they don't believe. So...

You know what... I'm done. This question is stupid.

This is a better one: If God is fake, then you have wasted so much time tyoing these answers, and then I assume you go to church, and you have wasted your time praying, and you have wasted your time believing in something which is not true. That's what you have lost if your Wrong. If you were a young earth creationist, thenl you have completely wasted your time argueing, and not reading up on science simply because you believe in the Bible....

If God was fake, would you waste your time still believing in him?

Law was made for man, not man made for the law. This was why Jesus was brought here, because as you can tell, people werent living the way the were supposed to. For example, they asked Jesus if they should stone the adulteress, as it was according to the law. He said "He among you who is without sin, let him cast the first stone." Jesus showed us how we were supposed to live by the law. A man comes to this earth, raises the dead, cures the blind, and is raised from the dead himself. The Muslims are just ignorant, poorly guided people who chose to follow a false God.

Better to have wasted my time than to go to eternal suffering. It's much more of a waist a time to debate the lack of a God, than to believe in one.

I can spend all day refuting the logic you pull out of thin air. It's easy to debate the ignorant because they don't study what they preach. Most of these people believe we popped out of thin air, and they call us crazy.

 

[stovebolts]

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.... This is really frustrating. In the Bible, the old testament specifically, it tells you to kill people who worship other Gods... If God doesn't EVER contridict himself, then why not do it now?

This is extremely annoying. I was asking a counter question. Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Messiah... Or at least thats what I think they don't believe. So...

You know what... I'm done. This question is stupid.

This is a better one: If God is fake, then you have wasted so much time tyoing these answers, and then I assume you go to church, and you have wasted your time praying, and you have wasted your time believing in something which is not true. That's what you have lost if your Wrong. If you were a young earth creationist, thenl you have completely wasted your time argueing, and not reading up on science simply because you believe in the Bible....

If God was fake, would you waste your time still believing in him?

I find it odd that you won't see any truth in the bible, yet you affirm what Paul writes,nwhich is what I posted in my last reply to you...

We as Chistians affirm truth wherever we find it, weather it be in the Bible or not. You have missed a few Biblical truths so far that any reasonable person would openly affirm... thiest or not. This is telling of your agenda.

 

[Atothetheist]

A: Sooner or later it's a case of: come to terms with the Bible for yourself.

Or go some place else.

Thanks, thats encouraging.

 

[Atothetheist]

I find it odd that you won't see any truth in the bible, yet you affirm what Paul writes,nwhich is what I posted in my last reply to you...

We as Chistians affirm truth wherever we find it, weather it be in the Bible or not. You have missed a few Biblical truths so far that any reasonable person would openly affirm... thiest or not. This is telling of your agenda.

You seem to think I have a agenda. I am not sure if I sure be offended that you think that.

What biblical truths do even atheists agree on? I am quite happy to give you a historical Jesus, thats more than what others would give.

Thanks for asserting the bible is true without giving any evidence at all.

 

[Oats]

What is there that says you can't get " something" from "nothing"?

Speaking from the perspective of a limited human I dont think I can make those claims, and I hope that you can understand my sentiments.

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Can we start talking about higgs again?

It says nothing one way nor the other about the existence of transcendent beings...

 

[DarkHorseRising]

What is there that says you can't get " something" from "nothing"?

Speaking from the perspective of a limited human I dont think I can make those claims, and I hope that you can understand my sentiments.

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The law of conservation of matter and energy.

Also the second law of thermodynamics.

Can we start talking about higgs again?

It says nothing one way nor the other about the existence of transcendent beings...

Yeah, that's one of the major problems. I've heard all manner of groundless conclusions thrown around all over the internet and in real life, in the past couple weeks about this new subatomic particle. It doesn't really change anything outside of particle physics, it just helps us explain a lot of nerdy science stuff better.

 

[stovebolts]

Atothetheist,

Hello, I am getting the impression you are young in age and it shows in your posts. I am not wronging you for this, simply pointing it out for your future benefit. You seem like a bright young man with great potential. I would suggest that you slow yourself down just a little bit and put a little more thought into your posts before hitting the reply button because I also sense that this whole experience is a little new for you, and I get the sense that sometimes in your haste you miss some elementary truths. I say this for your own benifit. Let me explain.

I am on here to learn the truth, and by saying I am closeminded for not listening to your claims which are only supported in the bible, also what I don't believe, is kind of mean.

Tell me, is this true?

1 Corinthians 1:22 Seeing that Jews ask for signs, and Greeks seek after wisdom:
1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, unto Jews a stumblingblock, and unto Gentiles foolishness;

Are we not fools in the eyes of those who seek wisdom?

Is this also true?

1 Corinthians 15:12-16 Now if Christ is preached that he hath been raised from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither hath Christ been raised: and if Christ hath not been raised, then is our preaching vain, your faith also is vain. Yea, we are found false witnesses of God; because we witnessed of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, neither hath Christ been raised:

And no the works in the bible Don't prove anything. You have to believe the bible is true in order to believe the works are true. And since I don't believe in the bible, it doesn't prove a thing to me.

If God is fake, then you have wasted so much time tyoing these answers, and then I assume you go to church, and you have wasted your time praying, and you have wasted your time believing in something which is not true. That's what you have lost if your Wrong. If you were a young earth creationist, thenl you have completely wasted your time argueing, and not reading up on science simply because you believe in the Bible....

1 Corinthians 15:12-16 Now if Christ is preached that he hath been raised from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither hath Christ been raised: and if Christ hath not been raised, then is our preaching vain, your faith also is vain. Yea, we are found false witnesses of God; because we witnessed of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, neither hath Christ been raised:

What biblical truths do even atheists agree on? I am quite happy to give you a historical Jesus, thats more than what others would give.

Thanks for asserting the bible is true without giving any evidence at all.

Do you see it yet? You yourself are the evidence.


I would remind you that it was you who initiated this conversation with me.

 

[Oats]

The law of conservation of matter and energy.

Also the second law of thermodynamics.




Yeah, that's one of the major problems. I've heard all manner of groundless conclusions thrown around all over the internet and in real life, in the past couple weeks about this new subatomic particle. It doesn't really change anything outside of particle physics, it just helps us explain a lot of nerdy science stuff better.

I'm not going to look those terms up to mount an argument based on that information. But something and nothing are very human ideas, I'm only a human so I can neither extend myself beyond my five senses, but science has a five sense bias, also our minds can't comprehend higher levels of complexity. Something else that was timeless that had no structure we could possibly understand could have created the universe. Is God eternal energy or mass? I dislike the new age types that say God is "energy". How did God create mass, energy, and time? It was by his will correct? Or did he take some preexisting "stuff" to create the universe. Transcendent constructs don't exist within our realm of limitation. May be things aren't as they seem.

 

[Drew]

Is there any evidence that there are previous universes?

I would not be surprised if the nature of the "transition" between universe "n-1" and universe "n" would such as to ensure that universe "n" contains no evidence whatsoever of the prior existence of universe "n-1".

 

[Atothetheist]

The law of conservation of matter and energy.

Also the second law of thermodynamics.




Yeah, that's one of the major problems. I've heard all manner of groundless conclusions thrown around all over the internet and in real life, in the past couple weeks about this new subatomic particle. It doesn't really change anything outside of particle physics, it just helps us explain a lot of nerdy science stuff better.

the Higgs just confirms the standard model.Nothing to suggest anything.

 

[Atothetheist]

I would not be surprised if the nature of the "transition" between universe "n-1" and universe "n" would such as to ensure that universe "n" contains no evidence whatsoever of the prior existence of universe "n-1".

Neither would I, but if so, you shouldn't make an assumption like that.

If there were absolutely no evidence at all, then the past universes have absolutly no bearing on weather this one, or any other, will have been before it.

This is all merely speculation on our part.

 

[Atothetheist]

I'm not going to look those terms up to mount an argument based on that information. But something and nothing are very human ideas, I'm only a human so I can neither extend myself beyond my five senses, but science has a five sense bias, also our minds can't comprehend higher levels of complexity. Something else that was timeless that had no structure we could possibly understand could have created the universe. Is God eternal energy or mass? I dislike the new age types that say God is "energy". How did God create mass, energy, and time? It was by his will correct? Or did he take some preexisting "stuff" to create the universe. Transcendent constructs don't exist within our realm of limitation. May be things aren't as they seem.

While we are limited, you are making the assumption that there is something past our five senses... But I'll grant you this one, esentially, if you can see a ghost, is isn't something that we can't sense. Our brains have evolved in order to recognize patterns, and while that does sometimes become a disadvantage, it overtly advantagous. The complexity of things often look without a pattern, but once we find one, and if we don't we'll superimpose one, it will all become simple.

The thing I am trying to say is that even if our human minds may never truly comprehend something, it will try to try to comprehend it, and sometimes it goes waaay off the mark.

 

[Atothetheist]

Atothetheist,

Hello, I am getting the impression you are young in age and it shows in your posts. I am not wronging you for this, simply pointing it out for your future benefit. You seem like a bright young man with great potential. I would suggest that you slow yourself down just a little bit and put a little more thought into your posts before hitting the reply button because I also sense that this whole experience is a little new for you, and I get the sense that sometimes in your haste you miss some elementary truths. I say this for your own benifit. Let me explain.









1 Corinthians 15:12-16 Now if Christ is preached that he hath been raised from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither hath Christ been raised: and if Christ hath not been raised, then is our preaching vain, your faith also is vain. Yea, we are found false witnesses of God; because we witnessed of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, neither hath Christ been raised:



Do you see it yet? You yourself are the evidence.


I would remind you that it was you who initiated this conversation with me.

so... By disbelieving... I am proving God's Word? That's not really a good argument. in fact, it's a stupid word game. Steven, If I can call you that, you will have to do a bit better than that.

... Ok, here is a straight honest question. how did you come to believe in the Bible? PM me this, because we really should be getting on topic.

 

[stovebolts]

so... By disbelieving... I am proving God's Word? That's not really a good argument. in fact, it's a stupid word game. Steven, If I can call you that, you will have to do a bit better than that.

... Ok, here is a straight honest question. how did you come to believe in the Bible? PM me this, because we really should be getting on topic.

Ha! You can call me Jeff since I have no idea who Steve is lol

Aside from that you and I are on totally different pages. Take you current thought and toss it aside for a moment and put on your logic hat. Then with a fresh and non assuming mind, read what I've written as if you were a third party who doesn't know anything and is reading it for the first time.

I'm on my phone right now ready to call it a day. Ill pm you in the morning.

Take it easy and enjoy your Friday night

Jeff

 

[Atothetheist]

Ha! You can call me Jeff since I have no idea who Steve is lol

Aside from that you and I are on totally different pages. Take you current thought and toss it aside for a moment and put on your logic hat. Then with a fresh and non assuming mind, read what I've written as if you were a third party who doesn't know anything and is reading it for the first time.

I'm on my phone right now ready to call it a day. Ill pm you in the morning.

Take it easy and enjoy your Friday night

Jeff

Lol I misread your Username!

I thought it said STEVEbolts

I apearently wasn't paying attention!

 

[AlexBC]

While we are limited, you are making the assumption that there is something past our five senses... But I'll grant you this one, esentially, if you can see a ghost, is isn't something that we can't sense. Our brains have evolved in order to recognize patterns, and while that does sometimes become a disadvantage, it overtly advantagous. The complexity of things often look without a pattern, but once we find one, and if we don't we'll superimpose one, it will all become simple.

The thing I am trying to say is that even if our human minds may never truly comprehend something, it will try to try to comprehend it, and sometimes it goes waaay off the mark.

Just a funny observation. Why do people always say "FIVE sense" when we in fact have somewhere around 21. Sense of pressure, sense of balance, sense of temperature etc Aren't these all senses.

And in terms of our sight alone, we really are quite spectacularly blind. We're limited to the colours of the rainbow. Not that that's a bad thing.

Sorry for going off topic...again.