Historic-Premillennialism (cool site)

[Vic C.]

No. I believe Revelation was written post 70 AD. I also believe that Daniel's prophesy in Ch. 9 is a twofold prophesy. What I mean by that is it is a near/far prophesy. The near part was fulfulled when Antiochus sought to destroy Judaism and the Jews themselves. The far part of this prophesy refers to Anti-christ himself. The woman and man-child in Revelation refers to Israel and the One they eventually brought forth, which is Jesus, the Messiah.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Well a dual fulfillment guy I to am often a dual fulfillment kinda guy. I have found this belief in only the most serious of prophecy students.


In my mind these two verses are both about the destruction of Judea in 70 AD

15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

[26] And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.

It is no coincidence that Jesus uses the word flood in both of these prophecies.

 

[Vic C.]

Hi

Well a dual fulfillment guy I to am often a dual fulfillment kinda guy. I have found this belief in only the most serious of prophecy students.

In my mind these two verses are both about the destruction of Judea in 70 AD

15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

[26] And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.

It is no coincidence that Jesus uses the word flood in both of these prophecies.

Hello. Well, I must tell you, I am not a preterist nor do I like to spiritualize scripture. I don't see the connection between those verses and the destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD. Wasn't Jerusalem destroyed by fire?

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi


No I am no preterist they are just denial and illusion.

So you see the nation as Israel as the Woman..................... .is that Israel today or Judea when jesus was born.

We must remember Israel of Today did not bring forth the man Child.

I see the Woman as the True Olive Tree......First those saved pre Jesus and then as the offspring in Christianity.

it was the True Olive Tree (prophets Abraham etc) that brought forth jesus not the liars and murderers that made up judea ie: Pharisees and the like

 

[Vic C.]

I mean Israel, as in Jacob and the children of Jacob. Sorry, I should have stated that.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi vic

I am a bit confused here.................perhaps you can show were I have misunderstood you.

So do you see this as fulfilled.

17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Or is all of rev 12 still future.

 

[Cameron]

The ministry of Paul is a "continuation" of the 12 apostles, in which, the "revelations" GIVEN TO HIM, are allegedly already being advanced.

Explain. Good - bad. Luke - Mark - James?

The Day of the Lord "starts" AT the sixth seal, after the abomination of desolation, when the "church" is raptured.

Actually, if you're tyring to quote Prewrath - I think the 6th seal is the sign of the Day of the Lord and His impending wrath which actually begins at the 7th Seal.

The confounding and confusing terms of the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan PUT FORTH to detract from Paul's plain statement, that the body of Christ is "delivered from the WRATH TO COME", which is plainly identified, as the great tribulation, which starts at the midst of the week.

Apparently this is confusing for you. I prefer to look at the previous pattern of the Flood. God's wrath had no challengers. Hence if Satan has wrath, then God is allowing it for some reason before He wipes Satan off the face of the earth = literal premillennialism. The early church clearly saw the literal Antichrist persecuting the Church. Think of Satans' wrath as the time when the False version of Christ tries to kill of the Christians before God's wrath begins to kill off Antichrists followers. The Great Trib coincides with Satan's wrath against thos ewho have the testimony of Jesus.

The "three fold sign" of the sun, moon, and stars being darkened, and stating that occurs BEFORE the day of the Lord, IGNORING the day of the Lord is a period of time made up of days, which BEGINS with the SUN GOING DOWN, "not being darkened".

What version of the Bible is this? Uh? The sun goes dark. The moon also goes dark obviously if the sun does. The stars fall (not go black) because they are pealing back like a scroll to reveal something else other than space. The 6th seal says that people recognize He who sits on the throne and the wrath of the Lamb. How do you recognize it if you don't see it? Isaiah 2 connects the reaction of the men to God appearing to begin His wrath. The wrath of the lamb emphasizes the actions of Jesus. paul also does this in 2 Thess 2 when He calls this time the "Day of Christ".

The "cutting short" of the ministries of Moses and Elijah which are said to 1260 days. The pre wrathers RUN OUT of time. Remember, Elijah comes before the day of the Lord. They would have him "show up" BEFORE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION occurs, which would be before the beast REVEALED. Truth of the matter, he shows up AT THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH AS JESUS DOES. Ah, you forgot, the Mt. of Transfiguration. Peter called THAT a "coming" of the Lord. (2 Peter 1) It was a "FIGURE", not the "real thing". (hense tranfiguration) They saw "his glory", NOT the glory of the Father. (Luke 9) They "appeared in glory", as we will. (Col.3) They appeared and disappeared!

Whose cutting short their ministry? What? They prophesy for 1260 days. I believe that includes the 3 1/2 days of their death. Why do you think prewrathers run out of time? Why do youthink one of the witness is Elijah? Why not Enoch or two people alive today? Even Jesus refered to John the Baptist as the Elijah of His day.