Bible Study Holy Spirit First and Second Testaments

[Deborah13]

Do I want to obey God with all of my heart?
Of course I do and I try, but do i sin, yes!

The difference between David and myself is I have the Holy Spirit indwelling me, nothing has really changed though since then, God is still looking for sinners that choose to obey Him with all of their heart, soul, mind and strength, ...and that's us, His Church. Blessings

KJV
1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

 

[Karl]

KJV
1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

Hi Deborah, in your quote from 1 Samuel we see the word upon, the only believers from all of the ages, from Adam to the last saint saved in the millennium, that have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them is the Church, the Bride of Christ, 1 John 2:27, 4:4 Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, "receive the Holy Spirit", John 20:22 then we see on the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit came upon them Acts 2:3.

When we are born again we receive the Holy Spirit, we have the Holy Spirit, ...when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, He has us, the coming upon the believers was to empower them for ministry, just as it was for David, the word upon in Acts 2:3 in the Greek is epi and that is the same word used in 1 Sam 16:13 in the LXX describing how the Holy Spirit came upon David, like I stated, the coming upon of the Holy Spirit on David is the same as when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, was David empowered for ministry, yes, are we empowered for ministry, yes, ...but we still have a sin nature coexisting with us and we sin. Rom 7:14-25

Blessings

 

[reba]

The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit..

 

[Karl]

Absolutely, and like the Father and the Son (Jesus) He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

But in the Word there are three words used to describe His actions,
1. coming along side of (for salvation),
2. coining in (to regenerate)
3. coming upon (to empower)

Let's follow this out, ...If David was indwelt with the Holy Spirit, he lived in the dispensation of the Law and the Children of Israel during this time period are called the wife of the Father, Jer 3:14 that makes the Father an adulterer, having the Bride of His Son, ...doesn't work out does it?

Blessings

 

[Deborah13]

Absolutely, and like the Father and the Son (Jesus) He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

But in the Word there are three words used to describe His actions,
1. coming along side of (for salvation),
2. coining in (to regenerate)
3. coming upon (to empower)

Let's follow this out, ...If David was indwelt with the Holy Spirit, he lived in the dispensation of the Law and the Children of Israel during this time period are called the wife of the Father, Jer 3:14 that makes the Father an adulterer, having the Bride of His Son, ...doesn't work out does it?

Blessings

I'd like to discuss this further but we are getting way off topic. Would you consider copying your last to posts to a new thread? Or maybe one of the mods. can move them to a new thread?
Then we can. Thanks Deborah

 

[Karl]

Deborah, I would like to discuss this subject further with you and yes we are off topic, but I'm not very 'puter literate and I don't know how to do what you have asked, if a mod would do it for me I don't have a problem with that, also if they do you need to know I'm not in the States and my time zone is 2 hours after the California time zone so my hours are weird.

Blessings

 

[Karl]

Thank you mod, okay Deborah, let's talk, ...but please all or any that post, let's keep the love of Christ for our fellow brothers and sisters foremost. 1 John 3:14

Please, may our intentions be that of edifying and building up and not of tearing down, that we might glorify our Lord to all those who are watching.

Blessings

 

[Deborah13]

Thank you mod, okay Deborah, let's talk, ...but please all or any that post, let's keep the love of Christ for our fellow brothers and sisters foremost. 1 John 3:14

Please, may our intentions be that of edifying and building up and not of tearing down, that we might glorify our Lord to all those who are watching.

Blessings

:amen

I'm in Colorado, US. I'll just watch for your posts.

So.....Back to the Holy Spirit, God's relationship to the OT nation of Israel, the Bride of Christ.

I believe that all the OT believers (saints) were saved by grace, through faith, not of works just as we are today. The idea has always been repent (change your mind) and turn to God. God being, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
They knew that God was their Redeemer and that He would be come in the flesh, in the likeness of a man.
I believe that the Body of Christ/the Church includes all the saints before the cross and those after the cross. All saints being justified and sanctified, by grace through faith.

So with that out of the way.....
In speaking of the Holy Spirit and the difference between these two anointing? I have given two of the scriptures that you presented in your post #2. I'm using the KJV translation. [added translation from the YLT].
What do you believe about this anointing in 1John?
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth [remains] in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide [remain] in him.

What do you believe is different about this anointing on David compared to the one in 1John?
1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

 

[Karl]

Hey Deborah, I'm home for lunch, passed through Colorado once, beautiful country, just toooooo cold for me.

It seems you and I are in agreement about salvation, now I will address your question about 1 John 2:27

We have to ask the question what anointing is John talking about?

The answer is found in Col 1:27, that is Christ in us, now notice he said Christ and not Jesus, Jesus today is a man sitting at the right side of the Father in Heaven, in the incarnation He gave up His omnipresence for us, Jesus said He had to leave, because He is no longer omnipresent, but promised to send to us the Spirit, which is the Spirit of the Messiah (Christ) and Jesus said He would bring to our remembrance everything Jesus said.

With that in mind we go to the New Covenant which concerns us the Church,

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Jer 31:33, 34

Repeated again in Hebrews, ...so the anointing John is referring to is the Holy Spirit coming to take up residence inside of us.

We notice that we don't need any man to teach us, because the Holy Spirit will teach us all things that are truth, He does that through His gift of teaching, when we are listening to a teaching and relying on the Spirit to teach us and we haven't resisted, grieved or quenched Him then He is the witness Paul talks about that is inside of us. He will guide and direct us into all truth, if we are listening we can hear Him say, "yes, this is true", or if the teaching is not anointed by Him through the gift of teaching, He says, "that is not what Jesus said" or "Jesus didn't say that" or "that isn't how Jesus meant that", ...we need to always remember the Holy Spirit doesn't speak of Himself, only the things He heard Jesus say.

This verse, 1 John 2:27 is a foundational life verse for me and over the years it has spared me from having to unlearn things that are not true, ...which is very hard to do.

I tried to keep it short, I have to go back to work so I will address 1 Samuel tonight, thanks for your patience.

Lord Bless

 

[Karl]

In our text of 1 Sam 16:13 we find,
1. Samuel anointed David, rather than Jesus sending the Holy Spirit.
2.David was anointed with oil, the symbol, the type, of the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit appeared like tongues of fire on all of the gathered believers
3. It was only David amongst his brethren that was anointed, it was not universal.
4. The Holy Spirit was not in David, it came upon him, on the day of Pentecost the believers had already received the Holy Spirit, John 20:22 He was in them and then the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Let's look again at the New Covenant,

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:31, 32

David was one of the fathers, the New Covenant was different from the Old Covenant of Sinai, the difference between the two covenants is the first was conditional on the people doing their part, the second is unconditional, it's God doing everything for us.

Here's something else to consider,

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

How could David 1000 years before Christ or any of the Old Testament Saints receive the Holy Spirit before the 17th of Nisan 32A.D.?

We read the Holy Spirit came upon David, Samson, Othniel, and others to empower them to fight their enemies, we read in the New Testament the Holy Spirit came upon believers to preach the Gospel, which points out a definitive point for us, the Old Testament is physical and material, the New Testament is spiritual and eternal.

I hope I have answered you question.

Blessings

 

[Deborah13]

In our text of 1 Sam 16:13 we find,
1. Samuel anointed David, rather than Jesus sending the Holy Spirit.
2.David was anointed with oil, the symbol, the type, of the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit appeared like tongues of fire on all of the gathered believers
3. It was only David amongst his brethren that was anointed, it was not universal.
4. The Holy Spirit was not in David, it came upon him, on the day of Pentecost the believers had already received the Holy Spirit, John 20:22 He was in them and then the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Let's look again at the New Covenant,

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:31, 32

David was one of the fathers, the New Covenant was different from the Old Covenant of Sinai, the difference between the two covenants is the first was conditional on the people doing their part, the second is unconditional, it's God doing everything for us.

Here's something else to consider,

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

How could David 1000 years before Christ or any of the Old Testament Saints receive the Holy Spirit before the 17th of Nisan 32A.D.?

We read the Holy Spirit came upon David, Samson, Othniel, and others to empower them to fight their enemies, we read in the New Testament the Holy Spirit came upon believers to preach the Gospel, which points out a definitive point for us, the Old Testament is physical and material, the New Testament is spiritual and eternal.

I hope I have answered you question.

Blessings

Thank you for taking the time to explain in your two very through posts. I will consider all you have said.
I don't have any comments right now.
God Bless you and yours.

 

[for_his_glory]

In the OT Gods Spirit was upon them to show Gods omnipotence as they were not yet empowered with the Holy Spirit for Gods Spirit was not yet poured out on His people. In the NT Gods Spirit (Holy Spirit) indwells us as we are empowered now with Gods power and authority that He gave to Jesus to teach all nations and for our commission to continue in those teachings as Jesus uses His power and authority through us as the Holy Spirit prepares us to go teach in all truth as we are taught by the Holy Spirit. Self has no power or authority until it comes into the knowledge of who holds all power and authority that works through us as it's all Gods Spirit working in us and through us.

 

[Deborah13]

In the OT Gods Spirit was upon them to show Gods omnipotence as they were not yet empowered with the Holy Spirit for Gods Spirit was not yet poured out on His people. In the NT Gods Spirit (Holy Spirit) indwells us as we are empowered now with Gods power and authority that He gave to Jesus to teach all nations and for our commission to continue in those teachings as Jesus uses His power and authority through us as the Holy Spirit prepares us to go teach in all truth as we are taught by the Holy Spirit. Self has no power or authority until it comes into the knowledge of who holds all power and authority that works through us as it's all Gods Spirit working in us and through us.

It seems to me that when the Holy Spirit came upon David he had more empowerment than most people do now and the Holy Spirit never left him.
I know you believe that the Holy Spirit can leave someone now just like He could have left him.

When he sinned he asked God not to take the Holy Spirit from him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Deborah,

David had transgressed against God for he went in unto Bathsheba. He was asking God to forgive him his iniquity and that God being a spirit was asking God to not take His holy spirit (omnipotence) away from Him. Holy spirit here just means Gods spirit as being holy.

Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah,

David had transgressed against God for he went in unto Bathsheba. He was asking God to forgive him his iniquity and that God being a spirit was asking God to not take His holy spirit (omnipotence) away from Him. Holy spirit here just means Gods spirit as being holy.

Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

This was after he had been anointed and the Holy Spirit had come upon him.
The Holy Spirit was taken away from Saul so that he was no longer comforted and a different spirit sent to him. [KJV]
YLT
1Sa 16:14 And the Spirit of Jehovah turned aside [departed] from Saul, and a spirit of sadness from Jehovah terrified him;

Like JustPassingThru said, I think this was an empowering like received on Pentecost and gifts of wisdom, prophecy, etc. was given to him.
I suspect he already had the Holy Spirit though because he had believing faith. I don't know how anyone could have faith in the suffering Messiah without the Holy Spirit revealing it to them. David prophesied about Him. Looking at his life and what God says about him, it appears to me that he had been sealed by the Holy Spirit since before this anointing.

 

[Karl]

Deborah, I guess I didn't explain it clear enough, the Holy Spirit coming on Pentecost was the fulfilling of prophecy, the Feast of First Fruits, the Holy Spirit coming upon David was to fight his enemies, it's not recorded that David had any of the gifts we have from the Holy Spirit today, again, David was anointed by a prophet, we receive the Holy Spirit from the Father. John 14:26

Through the gifts of the Holy Spirit the Church functions, one of those gifts is prophecy, but in the time of David there were only a few men who were true prophets of God, it was a position not a privilege, David didn't prophecy, do miracles, speak in tongues or heal anyone, looking back to the beginning of the Sinai Covenant we find the anointing of the Holy spirit was to help men in the physical realm, where our empowerment by the Holy Spirit is for use in the spiritual realm.

Yes David was anointed, probably for all of his life, but he was not born again like we are, it's two different dispensations, from the response of Nicodemus to Jesus telling him he must be born again it's clear they didn't know what it was, the Old Testament saints were saved by looking forward to the cross, we are saved by looking back to the cross.

Blessings

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah, I guess I didn't explain it clear enough, the Holy Spirit coming on Pentecost was the fulfilling of prophecy, the Feast of First Fruits, the Holy Spirit coming upon David was to fight his enemies, it's not recorded that David had any of the gifts we have from the Holy Spirit today, again, David was anointed by a prophet, we receive the Holy Spirit from the Father. John 14:26

Through the gifts of the Holy Spirit the Church functions, one of those gifts is prophecy, but in the time of David there were only a few men who were true prophets of God, it was a position not a privilege, David didn't prophecy, do miracles, speak in tongues or heal anyone, looking back to the beginning of the Sinai Covenant we find the anointing of the Holy spirit was to help men in the physical realm, where our empowerment by the Holy Spirit is for use in the spiritual realm.

Yes David was anointed, probably for all of his life, but he was not born again like we are, it's two different dispensations, from the response of Nicodemus to Jesus telling him he must be born again it's clear they didn't know what it was, the Old Testament saints were saved by looking forward to the cross, we are saved by looking back to the cross.

Blessings

Act 2:25 for David saith in regard to him: I foresaw the Lord always before me--because He is on my right hand--that I may not be moved;
Act 2:26 because of this was my heart cheered, and my tongue was glad, and yet--my flesh also shall rest on hope,
Act 2:27 because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption;
Act 2:28 Thou didst make known to me ways of life, Thou shalt fill me with joy with Thy countenance.
Act 2:29 `Men, brethren! it is permitted to speak with freedom unto you concerning the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day;
Act 2:30 a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne,
Act 2:31 having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

David was a prophet. David writes about the suffering Messiah who's beard will be pluck from His face.....at least I think that was David about the beard, I should look it up to confirm that and not Isaiah.

 

[Deborah13]

I was wrong about who prophesied about the Messiah's beard, it was Isaiah.
Isa 50:6 My back I have given to those smiting, And my cheeks to those plucking out, My face I hid not from shame and spitting.

Here's David....
YLT
Psa 16:8 I did place Jehovah before me continually, Because--at my right hand I am not moved.
Psa 16:9 Therefore hath my heart been glad, And my honour doth rejoice, Also my flesh dwelleth confidently:
Psa 16:10 For Thou dost not leave my soul to Sheol, Nor givest thy saintly one to see corruption.
Psa 16:11 Thou causest me to know the path of life; Fulness of joys is with Thy presence, Pleasant things by Thy right hand for ever!

 

[Karl]

Deborah, I agree with what you are saying David accomplished, that is not the point, he was not born again like we are, look at the verse you quoted,

Psa 16:10 For Thou dost not leave my soul to Sheol, Nor givest thy saintly one to see corruption.

Where did the soul of David go when he died? Luke 16:22

Where does our soul go when we die? 2 Cor 5:8

It's two different dispensations, we are in the dispensation of grace. Eph 3:2
David lived during the dispensation of the law,
The two dispensations do not over lap or can they exist at the same time, the four other dispensations did not over lap and neither do these.

Blessings

 

[Sinthesis]

Grace and the Law overlapped for 40yrs so everyone in that generation would have time to recognize the work of the Messiah.