Holy Spirit is not a Spirit Person. It is "Your Father's Spirit/Mind"Mat 10:20

[SonByAdoption]

The word spirit has at least two definitions in the Bible. Spirit can mean a supernatural being or spirit can mean somebody's mind. All intelligent beings have spirit/minds. Human spirits are not supernatural beings. Human spirits are minds where we think and perceive things and they do not exist outside of the body and they don't continually to live when the body dies.

"And immediately when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?"Mark 2:8
"BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES[grave], NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY."Acts 2:27 N.A.S.B.
"Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’"

Jesus is our example. His spirit was his mind where he thought and perceived things. When He died His spirit slept with His body in the grave and when the Father resurrected Him then He was able to go to heaven. Jesus said we will go to heaven when he comes back for us. He never said we were going to heaven before that."

1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in Goda; trust also in me. 2In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.” John 14:1-4 N.I.V.

Jesus said believe in God and Jesus always said that His God was His Father. Jesus said believe also in me and Jesus always said that He was the only begotten/literal Son/Offspring of the Father. But He never said believe in a third person.

Jesus said in John 17:3 that the secret of eternal life was to know the Father the only true God and to know Jesus His only true literal Son but he never said that we have to know some third person to have eternal life.

A human spirit is a human's mind. and we were created in the Father's image. So the Holy Spirit is the Father's mind.

God the Father is a Divine being who is alone the One God[Supreme Ruler] over Jesus His literal Son and over all the created beings.

The Father is literally sitting on a real throne in a real place called Heaven but the Father's mind is not limited to His body. The Father's mind is omnipresent and fills the whole universe. The Holy Spirit is the Father's mind and not a separate person.

"But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what you shall speak, neither do you premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak you: for it is not you that speak, but the Holy Spirit.""For it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks through you."Mark 13:11 and Matthew 10:20

Jesus and the Disciples as well as all 1st century Jews never read the words Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and thought that meant a third person. They all knew that the Holy Spirit is the Father's spirit/mind.

The trinity doctrine was not invented until hundreds of years after the bible was written and after the last apostle died so to these non trinitarian Apostles the Holy Spirit was the Father's mind.

"Who has directed the Spirit of Yahweh, or has taught him as his counselor?"""Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?""Isaiah 40:13 W.E.B. and Romans 11:34

When quoting an O.t. verse the Apostle Paul was Divinely inspired to substitute the Hebrew word for spirit with the Greek word for mind so we would all be able to see that the Holy spirit is not a Spirit person. It is the Father's mind.

 

[farouk]

The three divine Persons of the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are mentioned numerous times in the New Testament; such passages include John chapters 13 to 17; the end of Matthew 28; John's First Epistle, and many others. Any depiction of the Holy Spirit as simply an idea or as being supposedly indistinguishable from the other Divine Person's is not adequate.

 

[Mike]

Agreed, Farouk. I immediately thought of John 17, but holding to oneness means having to explain all the times the Son prayed to the Father. They glorify each other distinctly while God manifests Himself in these three persons as one Triune God.

 

[SonByAdoption]

Jesus was born from the Father before creation.He's the One Divine Son of the One God

The three divine Persons of the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are mentioned numerous times in the New Testament; such passages include John chapters 13 to 17; the end of Matthew 28; John's First Epistle, and many others. Any depiction of the Holy Spirit as simply an idea or as being supposedly indistinguishable from the other Divine Person's is not adequate.

The three divine Persons of the Godhead...are mentioned numerous times in the New Testament....

There is not even one verse that talks about the One God being more than one person and it names Him over and over again calling Him the Father so their is no need for us to be confused by the trinitarians strange new god that the Jewish Bible writers knew nothing about because the trinity god wasn't invented until hundreds of years after they'd all died.

"Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us?...""one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. ""yet *we* have but one God, the Father, who is the source of all things and for whose service we exist..." Mal 2:10 E.S.V.Ep.4:6 N.I.V. and 1Cor.8:6 W.N.T.

The Son of God is called God because before creation He was born from the Original God and inherited His Father's Dvine Nature and Divine name."Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."Heb1:4

8But God said about his Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter in your kingdom is a scepter for justice. 9You have loved what is right and hated what is wrong. That is why God, your God, anointed you, rather than your companions, with the oil of joy." Hebrews 1:8:9 G.W.T.

The One God gave birth to His One Son and He is God over Him so that is why even though the Bible proves there is two Divine beings to still says that the Father alone is the One God because He is the only being who does not have a God. "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,"2nd Corinthians 1:3 N.I.V.

Any depiction of the Holy Spirit as simply an idea or as being supposedly indistinguishable from the other Divine Person's is not adequate.

The Bible says that the Holy Spirit incarnated Jesus. So why then did Jesus say that the Father was His Father and not the H.S. If they are in fact seperate persons?

The Bible says that Jesus was baptised with the Holy Spirit? Why did Jesus say that the Father lives in me He doeth the works if the Holy Spirit is a different person?

Jesus disciples all had the Father's spirit in them. Remember Peter's confession and Jesus said flesh and blood didn't teach you that but my Father which is in heaven taught you that.

See the Father's body is sitting in heaven but His mind, His spirit, is not limited to His body but fills the universe. The Holy Spirit is not a seperate person than the Father. It is the Father's inner person. His spirit. His mind.

During Jesus incarnation the Father alone was the Holy Spirit but after Jesus died and then was resurrected and glorified Jesus combined His spirit with the Father's spirit so Jesus could be our Comforter.

That's why Pauls says yet not I live but Christ lives in me. Christ in you the hope of glory. Jesus was raised a life giving spirit.

Because he shares His life with us so we can be born again.

 

[Mitspa]

The word spirit has at least two definitions in the Bible. Spirit can mean a supernatural being or spirit can mean somebody's mind. All intelligent beings have spirit/minds. Human spirits are not supernatural beings.

1Co 3:16



Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Co 2:9



But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10



But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11



For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12



Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13



Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14



But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom 8:9



But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:16



The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


Not sure what you are trying to prove? But when a mans spirit is united with the Spirit of God we do become "supernatural beings"

1Co 12:8



For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9



To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10



To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

 

[SonByAdoption]

Father,the Divine being who gave birth.Son,the Divine being who was given birth.1+1=2

Agreed, Farouk. I immediately thought of John 17, but holding to oneness means having to explain all the times the Son prayed to the Father. They glorify each other distinctly while God manifests Himself in these three persons as one Triune God.

I immediately thought of John 17...God manifests Himself in these three persons as one Triune God.

You believe that the Only True God consists of 3 persons whom you call Triune and that we need to know your third god to be saved but Jesus only knows one Only True God and He is One Person His Father and Jesus taught us that knowing His Father and knowing God's only born Son is the only Divine beings that we need to know to have eternal life.

"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3 N.I.V.

You said that in your trinity god every member glorifies eachother. Jesus and His Disciples were Jews and they believed the Father was the Only God and they never told any Jews to stop believing that the Father is the Only God. Jesus says that His Father is the only one who glorifies Him. He must not have known about your third god who you call the H.S.

"Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the ONE who glorifies me." John 8:54 N.I.V.

If Jesus knew about your holyspirit god than surely He would have called on Him to testify but alas Jesus and the Father are the only witnesses that Jesus knows about.

"I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."John 8:18 N.I.V.

Clearly God the Father and His only born Son are not the same God because Jesus says believe in God. Believe also in me. ALSO as in I am someone else other than God. Jesus only asked us to believe in 2 Divine beings not 3. Clearly trinitarians have misunderstood and misintepreted what the H.S. is

"Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe ALSO in me."John 14:1

Christians are going to kill other Christians in the last days because they don't know God the Father and they don't know Jesus His only born Son. That is only 2 Divine beings not 3.

"2“For they shall put you out from their assemblies, and the hour will come when everyone who would kill you will think that he presents an offering to God.†3“And they shall do these things because they do not know either my Father or me.†Aramaic Bible in Plain English http://bible.cc/john/17-21.htm

“I and my Father, We are One."John 10:30 Aramaic Bible in Plain English http://bible.cc/john/17-21.htm
Aramaic Bible in Plain English 21“That they all shall be one, just as you, my Father, are in me, and I am in you, so that they also shall be one in us. “
22“And I have given them the glory that you have given me, so that they shall be one, just as we are one, so that the world shall believe that you have sent me. “Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Obviously all the Christians are seperate human beings are not going to be one human being. Neither are God the Father and His only born Son the same Divine being. Trinitarian Christians have based their whole religion on a misunderstanding of a single Bible verse and that's really sad.

If God the Father and Jesus are the same being. Than was one that couldn't be tempted and the other was tempted in all points like us. Why was one absolutely immortal and why did the other one die for our sins. Why is one unbegotten meaning He never had a beginning and why is the other one His only born. Why was one incarnated and the other one unable to be incarnated. Why does one of them have a God and the other one has no God.

Obviously God and Christ are not the same Divine being and it is against all reason and common sense for someone to believe that they are.

I forgot the Bible says that God has never been seen at anytime by fallen man but then we see a God in the O.T.wresteling with Jacob and eating with Abraham and walking with Adam and Eve in the cool of the day after they sinned and appearing to Moses in a burning bush.

Obviously it is logical if One Divine being can't be seen and the other one was seen than there must be two.

Too bad that trinitarians have allowed themselves to believe in a manmade doctrine that is not even logical and doesn't even make any sense according to the Bible.

...holding to oneness means having to explain all the times the Son prayed to the Father.

 

[Mitspa]

Re: Father,the Divine being who gave birth.Son,the Divine being who was given birth.1

You believe that the Only True God consists of 3 persons whom you call Triune and that we need to know your third god to be saved but Jesus only knows one Only True God and He is One Person His Father and Jesus taught us that knowing His Father and knowing God's only born Son is the only Divine beings that we need to know to have eternal life.

"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3 N.I.V.

You said that in your trinity god every member glorifies eachother. Jesus and His Disciples were Jews and they believed the Father was the Only God and they never told any Jews to stop believing that the Father is the Only God. Jesus says that His Father is the only one who glorifies Him. He must not have known about your third god who you call the H.S.

"Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the ONE who glorifies me." John 8:54 N.I.V.

If Jesus knew about your holyspirit god than surely He would have called on Him to testify but alas Jesus and the Father are the only witnesses that Jesus knows about.

"I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."John 8:18 N.I.V.

Clearly God the Father and His only born Son are not the same God because Jesus says believe in God. Believe also in me. ALSO as in I am someone else other than God. Jesus only asked us to believe in 2 Divine beings not 3. Clearly trinitarians have misunderstood and misintepreted what the H.S. is

"Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe ALSO in me."John 14:1

Christians are going to kill other Christians in the last days because they don't know God the Father and they don't know Jesus His only born Son. That is only 2 Divine beings not 3.

"2“For they shall put you out from their assemblies, and the hour will come when everyone who would kill you will think that he presents an offering to God.†3“And they shall do these things because they do not know either my Father or me.†Aramaic Bible in Plain English

“I and my Father, We are One."John 10:30 Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Aramaic Bible in Plain English 21“That they all shall be one, just as you, my Father, are in me, and I am in you, so that they also shall be one in us. “
22“And I have given them the glory that you have given me, so that they shall be one, just as we are one, so that the world shall believe that you have sent me. “Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Obviously all the Christians are seperate human beings are not going to be one human being. Neither are God the Father and His only born Son the same Divine being. Trinitarian Christians have based their whole religion on a misunderstanding of a single Bible verse and that's really sad.

If God the Father and Jesus are the same being. Than was one that couldn't be tempted and the other was tempted in all points like us. Why was one absolutely immortal and why did the other one die for our sins. Why is one unbegotten meaning He never had a beginning and why is the other one His only born. Why was one incarnated and the other one unable to be incarnated. Why does one of them have a God and the other one has no God.

Obviously God and Christ are not the same Divine being and it is against all reason and common sense for someone to believe that they are.

I forgot the Bible says that God has never been seen at anytime by fallen man but then we see a God in the O.T.wresteling with Jacob and eating with Abraham and walking with Adam and Eve in the cool of the day after they sinned and appearing to Moses in a burning bush.

Obviously it is logical if One Divine being can't be seen and the other one was seen than there must be two.

Too bad that trinitarians have allowed themselves to believe in a manmade doctrine that is not even logical and doesn't even make any sense according to the Bible.

Rom 8:9

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

There you have it! The Father , The Son , The Holy Spirit All for the believer working together for our good

 

[Mike]

SBA, I don't have the time now or in general to drag out a scriptural debate with you. You said I believe a full triune God belief is required to be saved; not me. I'm assuming you read our Statement of Faith which is tied to our ToS when you joined. At the very least, you should take care not to become hostile toward it.

You may not comprehend the concept of the Trinity. That's understandable, because I don't fully comprehend it myself. But it seems strange to me that a Christian would berate trinitarians on the basis that they have more than one God. You may not agree, but you must know that we worship the One True God who is referred to as "Elohim" (plural) from the very first sentence of Genesis in the original language.

The scriptures you used demonstrate, as does a continuous thread throughout scripture, that God is One God manifested in the three distinct persons of the Trinity. Members of the Trinity consistently refer to other members in the third person.

John 14
15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father [separate but one], and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.â€

If you want this discussion to continue, I suggest you refrain from the accusations and hostility toward those who hold to the triune nature of God.