Homework, Discussions, and Questions for Lesson 1

[Tessa]

Alright so I read through B again and I understood everything up until the literary conventions paragraph after taking @ JohnDB's advice about writing notes down with a pen and paper. I still don't get a word of D at all though and what it's talking about. 2

Go for it April ! You can do it.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Go for it April ! You can do it.

Oh good, you can post in here now. Do you understand what it's talking about and do you think that you could help me out if you do?

 

[Tessa]

I will have to read it all again. I think I understand it all. That's not saying I do.

 

[Jim Parker]

I will have to read it all again. I think I understand it all. That's not saying I do.

Yeah.
I know what you mean.
I crammed 4 years of undergraduate work into 5 years and still just barely made it.
I didn't really learn how to study until my third masters degree which was Theology and the toughest.

So, yes, read it again.
Take notes.
And ask me what in the world do I think I'm talking about.

 

[Tessa]

Yeah.
I know what you mean.
I crammed 4 years of undergraduate work into 5 years and still just barely made it.
I didn't really learn how to study until my third masters degree which was Theology and the toughest.

So, yes, read it again.
Take notes.
And ask me what in the world do I think I'm talking about.

Would double 'like' if I could

 

[Luminous_Rose]

Jim, thank you for this abundance of information! I am excited with what the future lessons will bring! Some of this reminds me of The Survey of Old Testament/New Testament books that I haven't gotten through yet.

I actually thought about taking a "Bible as Literature" course before, but heard the teacher was far from Christian so I avoided it. Thank you for emphasizing all these exciting literary components of the Bible!

When I saw "anthropomorphism", I automatically thought "personification". I am glad after looking them up they are two different things =P

I liked the explanations of gospels and letters! I feel this helps us further understand writing structures like that of Paul since it is unlike our writing structures, therefore commonly misunderstood or taken out of context.

Apocalyptic literature is amazing to me because of the genius use of symbolism and I know a lot of churches do not touch on this one a lot, but probably as you mentioned it can be hazardous to take any symbolism as applied doctrine.

All the lessons packed a lot of info, but it is all useful! If I had a printer, I think all this stuff would become its own binder lol. Thank you for taking your time to post this! Super excited to be taking this free course!

 

[Truthfrees]

ANSWERS AND QUESTIONS FOR 1A QUIZ
1. Scriptures were written between 1500 BC and 90 AD -
was the first writer moses and the last writer john?

2. the bible was written in hebrew, chaldean, greek -
wasn't there also some aramaic?

3. the cultures of the writers were bronze-iron age, near eastern, pre-scientific, agricultural-
what is the difference between near middle and far eastern? how does the culture affect the writings as far as we today are concerned? what is notable about the bronze age thru to the iron age? iow what makes these cultures different or the same as us?

4. 5. chapters and verses were added in the 16th century to help readers find passages-
when were spaces between words added? both hebrew and greek originally had no spaces between words - and no periods or commas - or paragraphs

6. the bible is God telling us about Himself - who we are to Him - what He wants from us - what He does for us

7. 8. the Bible is literature and contains history -

9. myths are giving a meaning to a historical event -
is the purpose to create a life lesson?

 

[Jim Parker]

was the first writer moses and the last writer john?

Traditionally, yes.

wasn't there also some aramaic?

The languages of that area are, as I understand it, variations of Aramaic.
I may need to go to Wikipedia......

what is the difference between near middle and far eastern?

Approximately
Near: Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Arabia, Persia
Middle: Pakistan, India, Nepal,
Far: China, Japan, Korea

how does the culture affect the writings as far as we today are concerned?

Our understanding of the world is a reflection of our culture. For example, how would an iron age agricultural culture differ from a modern, information age culture? What kind of metaphors and symbols would each culture use?

what is notable about the bronze age thru to the iron age? iow what makes these cultures different or the same as us?

In bronze and iron age cultures, everything is made by hand. Farming is done using animals to pull the plough. Stones for walls are cut by a man using a hammer and chisel. Carpentry is all done with man-operated hand tools.
We have electricity to operate a multitude of tools which can manufacture highly complex things without ever being touched by a human being in the process.

when were spaces between words added? both hebrew and greek originally had no spaces between words - and no periods or commas - or paragraphs

When they were translated into different languages like German, English, French...

is the purpose to create a life lesson?

I'm not familiar with the term "life lesson."
A myth is used to explain important events such as creation of heaven and earth, creation of mankind, cataclysmic events (like the flood), etc. It gives the community a means to make sense out of events that are beyond our ability answer the question: "Why did this happen?".

So, for example, in the Mesopotamian flood myths, the reason for the destruction of mankind was that there were too many people and the earth couldn't support them.
In the Noah story, the reason for the destruction of mankind by flood was that mankind had become so evil that they were beyond repentance so God put an end to the evil.

jim

 

[Truthfrees]

In bronze and iron age cultures, everything is made by hand. Farming is done using animals to pull the plough. Stones for walls are cut by a man using a hammer and chisel. Carpentry is all done with man-operated hand tools.
We have electricity to operate a multitude of tools which can manufacture highly complex things without ever being touched by a human being in the process.

thanks for this - very informative - very interesting

can you do this same kind of descriptive explanation for all the bible cultures?

perhaps in the order they appear in the bible?

also what about the chronological bible? - it is supposed to put the books of the bible in the order they were written - would that be helpful to match up the cultures you described with the books of the bible in chronological order?

 

[Truthfrees]

I'm not familiar with the term "life lesson."
A myth is used to explain important events such as creation of heaven and earth, creation of mankind, cataclysmic events (like the flood), etc. It gives the community a means to make sense out of events that are beyond our ability answer the question: "Why did this happen?".

So, for example, in the Mesopotamian flood myths, the reason for the destruction of mankind was that there were too many people and the earth couldn't support them.
In the Noah story, the reason for the destruction of mankind by flood was that mankind had become so evil that they were beyond repentance so God put an end to the evil.

trying to understand this so...

1. is the bible flood story a myth or pure history? - there is an explanation of what happened beyond the pure historical fact of the flood - non-believers tell us our flood story is a myth

2. in lesson 1A you said myths are not fairy tales - is the following the difference?

myths are to explain WHY something like the flood happened? - they just make up a cause that makes sense to them - but it is pure fabrication because God did not tell them that?

fairytales are made up stories with no historical basis? - what is the purpose of a fairytale?

thanks for presenting this awesome material

 

[Truthfrees]

I'm not familiar with the term "life lesson."

my impression of fairytales and myths was to make a convincing point - like don't trust wolves because they will eat you - don't wander away from home because a witch may snatch you - iow teaching a life lesson using a story

kinda like Jesus taught His spiritual principles by using parables - stories that you could never forget - along with a spiritual truth that you could internalize and retain more successfully -

i was wondering if this was the purpose of myths and fairytales - convince people to think or act in line with the writer's point of view on an issue?

 

[Jim Parker]

thanks for this - very informative - very interesting

can you do this same kind of descriptive explanation for all the bible cultures?

perhaps in the order they appear in the bible?

also what about the chronological bible? - it is supposed to put the books of the bible in the order they were written - would that be helpful to match up the cultures you described with the books of the bible in chronological order?

I haven't done that.
It would be a good project.
I'll need some time.

 

[Jim Parker]

1. is the bible flood story a myth or pure history? - there is an explanation of what happened beyond the pure historical fact of the flood - non-believers tell us our flood story is a myth

Here we run into some challenges with language.

What you call "pure historical fact" is a relatively modern concept. It requires that an observer (or group of observers) write down what was seen and heard. That requires a written language and the flood, which appears in a multitude of folk lore around the world, predates most of those cultures having a written language.

Also, history is very rarely "pure." It is usually biased to portray the culture of the writer in a positive light and regularly omits details that would be an embarrassment. (Like the German historians don't like to talk about the holocaust.)

We also have the advantage of photography, video and audio recording. But we still get "fake news"!

In the ancient world, the story of events that were important to the tribe or nation were memorized and passed from generation to generation orally. The event and the meaning of the event would be recited periodically to affirm the national (that could be a clan) identity. It would be part of the "story of us."

In that form, we would call it "myth." The word "myth" does not mean that the events did not happen. It means that the story of the events were recorded (or memorized) for the purpose of retaining the knowledge of events and how they effected "us."

So, while there was certainly a flood (IMO), the way the flood story is related in the Bible is what we would today call "myth." In fact, the story of Noah's flood is actually two separate stories, relating to two different traditions, woven together very skillfully. (And I'll get to that later in the course.)

So, when a non-believer says that the flood is a myth, I would strongly suspect that they don't really know what a myth is.

A "fairy tale" is not based on actual events or actual people and can even include animals and beings that don't exist such as pixies and goblins and unicorns. They may have a moral or it may be that the wicked witch just gets what's coming to her.

kinda like Jesus taught His spiritual principles by using parables

Parables are similar to myth except that they are not based on real events from the oral history of the people.

hope that helps

 

[Jim Parker]

myths are to explain WHY something like the flood happened? - they just make up a cause that makes sense to them - but it is pure fabrication because God did not tell them that?

I would probably call the Biblical flood story a "myth", not because it didn't happen, but because that was the way people recorded events at that time. They didn't have what we call "history". They had "our story" and we call that thing called, "our story" is "myth." It is an extremely important part of any culture's identity.

Once a culture begins to write down their story, the oral "mythology" begins to morph into history but in doing so, it looses some of its power. Our history is a much more powerful force for the unity of the culture when it is "the story of us" and we have all memorized it and can recite it.

Myth contains facts but the facts are not the primary point of the story; what God is telling us is the main point. The story (history or myth) is the vehicle God uses to communicate.

I don't think they made up the meaning. I think God revealed His meaning. He will not tolerate evil forever. At some point He will bring an end to it and the people who are doing it.

Also, the Mesopotamian flood story gives over-population as the cause of the flood while the Bible gives the unabated growth of evil as the reason for God putting an end to that evil.

In the Bible, God's first command was to be fruitful and multiply and fill the whole earth. You can't do that gathering in cities and practicing birth control.

Was the flood a real event? You betcha.

 

[Jim Parker]

i was wondering if this was the purpose of myths and fairytales - convince people to think or act in line with the writer's point of view on an issue?

Not just the writer's point of view, the point of view of the whole community. (tribe, clan, nation)
The myth (the story of us) is the glue of our culture.

 

[Tessa]

QUIZ 1A
1. The scriptures were written between 1500bc and about 90ad

2. They were written in Ancient Hebrew, Chaldean and Koine Greek.

3. The culture of the writers was from bronze to iron age, near eastern, pre-scientific and were agricultural societies.

4. Chapters and verses were added in 16th century to help people find texts more easily.

5. The bible is God revealing Himself to man but only to the extent of what we need to know.

6. The type of communication used in bible is literature - a written record of God and man.

7. One type of literature used in the bible is history.

8. The purpose of a myth is to explain what a true historical event means to us and why it happened.

 

[Tessa]

QUIZ 1B

1. Four more types of literature used in the bible are poetry, prophesy, wisdom and drama.

2. The apocalyptic prophesy is different from other prophesy as it uses symbols and is usually given after a vision is received.

3. An example of a figure of speech used in the bible is a metaphor. A Metaphor is a thing used in a phrase that represents or is symbolic of something else.
e.g. once when Jesus was talking about Herod in Luke 13:32 "And He said to them 'Go, tell that fox ...

4. The 6 parts of a Vassal- Suzerain treaty are:- Preamble, Prologue, Stipulations, Divine witness, Blessing and Sacrificial Meal.

5. In the Old Covenant the Suzerain is God and the vassal is Israel.

6. The great deeds done by the Suzerain were favours given to benefit the vassal, which show the merciful and giving nature of the Suzerain. e.g. God bringing Israel out of Egypt.

7. There are 613 stipulations in the Old Covenant.

8. God called heaven and earth to be the Divine Witnesses of the Old Covenant.

9. The bible lists the blessings and curses of the Old Covenant in Deuteronomy 28.

 

[jasonc]

I could go into how often historicall accounts are updated as info was found, or covered up and later corrected, but I wont. This occurs in local stories here, places such location of forts were off and proper coordinates were found, that sign was moved about 20 miles west here .

 

[Truthfrees]

Here we run into some challenges with language.

What you call "pure historical fact" is a relatively modern concept. It requires that an observer (or group of observers) write down what was seen and heard. That requires a written language and the flood, which appears in a multitude of folk lore around the world, predates most of those cultures having a written language.

Also, history is very rarely "pure." It is usually biased to portray the culture of the writer in a positive light and regularly omits details that would be an embarrassment. (Like the German historians don't like to talk about the holocaust.)

We also have the advantage of photography, video and audio recording. But we still get "fake news"!

In the ancient world, the story of events that were important to the tribe or nation were memorized and passed from generation to generation orally. The event and the meaning of the event would be recited periodically to affirm the national (that could be a clan) identity. It would be part of the "story of us."

In that form, we would call it "myth." The word "myth" does not mean that the events did not happen. It means that the story of the events were recorded (or memorized) for the purpose of retaining the knowledge of events and how they effected "us."

So, while there was certainly a flood (IMO), the way the flood story is related in the Bible is what we would today call "myth." In fact, the story of Noah's flood is actually two separate stories, relating to two different traditions, woven together very skillfully. (And I'll get to that later in the course.)

So, when a non-believer says that the flood is a myth, I would strongly suspect that they don't really know what a myth is.

A "fairy tale" is not based on actual events or actual people and can even include animals and beings that don't exist such as pixies and goblins and unicorns. They may have a moral or it may be that the wicked witch just gets what's coming to her.


Parables are similar to myth except that they are not based on real events from the oral history of the people.

hope that helps

okay - let's see if i got what you are saying - tell me where i got it wrong

the flood is a fact - the bible reason for the flood is wickedness - this is a fact because God said it was the reason for the flood

a myth is people telling their story about a fact - what part of the bible flood scripture passages would be considered the jewish people telling their story rather than stating a fact?

a parable like the ones Jesus told is a made up story to teach a truth/principle

a fairytale is a made up story

 

[Tessa]

QUIZ 1C

1. Genealogies are used in the bible to move from one story to another.

2. The 2 primary types of literature in the New Testament Gospels and letters.

3. The letters were written before the gospels.

4. Paul wrote the letter Romans as an introduction to himself and his doctrine and to say he intended to visit Rome.

In 1 &2 Corinthians Paul wrote to warn about the division in the church. He also told them they should not be allowing a man to continue with the church while he
was having sexual relations with his stepmother. He also told them they should not be going to pagan courts to settle disputes between each other.

In the letter to Galatians Paul wrote against the teaching of circumcision and keeping the law of Moses to be saved.

The letter to Ephesians was explaining the work of the Trinity, the blessings of Christ to the church, our proper response to grace and how God's strength is given to battle against spiritual warfare.

The letter to Philippians was about personal and shared salvation, urging the church to use humility, unity and joy in Christ .

The letter to Colossians warned against the false teaching that the soul will leave the body and have eternal life as spirit without the body. Also against the teaching of a secret knowledge that some have a divine spark and will be saved, others have no divine spark and won't be saved.