Homework, Discussions, and Questions for Lesson 1

[Jim Parker]

what part of the bible flood scripture passages would be considered the Jewish people telling their story rather than stating a fact?

One part is that there are two stories that are very skillfully woven together. One has rain for 40 days and then an additional year in the Ark; the other has rain for 40 years and then three weeks in the ark. They represent the Elohist (priestly) and Yahwist traditions.
Again, the flood story is not what we call "history" in our modern, 21st century, western culture where an even happens at noon; it's reported an the 5 O'clock news and we get film at 11.
So the Biblical flood story relates the versions of both Jewish traditions and could be considered commentary on the older Mesopotamian flood epics. The older stories got it wrong.
The earth is not a living being who can complain to the "gods".
The problem was never overpopulation. Overpopulation is only a problem when people jam themselves together in cities rather than being fruitful and multiplying and filling the whole earth like God told us to do.
When people gather together into the limited space of cities, they create the population problem.
They create the problem because they are doing their will instead of God's will.

So the question, "What part of the bible flood scripture passages would be considered the Jewish people telling their story rather than stating a fact?" misses the point of what is being communicated.
The way we talk about "facts" today would probably seem silly to the ancient near eastern person. The details of the story (the "facts") aren't the important part; the story and what it tells us are the important parts.

We, in the 21st century, in our western, highly technological, scientifically advanced, society, are so focused on provable facts that we miss the forest for the trees. We miss the message because we focus on the "facts" rather than on the message.

Just let God speak to you in the story.
God's first command to man is to be fruitful and multiply and fill the whole earth.
The story includes the first murderer building the first city.
Then the story includes mankind becoming so evil that God decides to wipe them all out and start over again.
After the flood, mankind again increases in number and what do they do? They decide to build a city and a tower to heaven.
God confused their languages and the spread out filling the whole earth.

So when an unbeliever says that the stories are not factual, you can tell him that he has completely missed the point.

I hope that helps because it is a difficult concept for me to explain.

 

[Tessa]

QUIZ 1D

1. The letters from Paul 1 &2 Thessalonians were about purity, keeping the faith when persecuted, and living a holy and worthy life. 2nd Thessalonians informed that the second coming of Christ had not already happened and that every eye shall see it.

1 &2 Timothy and Titus were instructions on how to conduct matters of the church to these two disciples
.
2. We are not sure who wrote Hebrews. It was written in the style of Paul so it could have been Paul or someone close to him.

3. Hebrews talks about Christ being superior to the angels, prophets, Moses and Aaron. The priesthood of Jesus being a better way as Christ is our way to heaven. It also talks about keeping the faith..

4. The major theme in James is that faith without works is dead and dead faith does not save. We were created to do good works and grace does not take our own responsibility

5. The major theme of 1 Peter is to have joy in suffering for the Lord, and live a holy life and submit to our roles in life. Also to have discipline and unity in the church.

6. In 2 Peter he talks about the difference between true and false knowledge. He talks of following the apostolic doctrine and to live a Christian way of life. Peter says to grow in virtue and holiness continually.

7. John's 3 lettes are mainly about keeping communion with God.

8. The literary convention found in Jude is about God's love and the live we should have for other and how closely these are connected.

9. Polemic is a strong verbal or written attack. It is a denunciation or denouncement.

10. We find symbolic and prophetic writing in the apocalypse.

11. It is different from other prophesy because of the symbolic writing after John's visions and is about the end times.

 

[Razeontherock]

can you do this same kind of descriptive explanation for all the bible cultures?

perhaps in the order they appear in the bible?

I thought about this when I was reading my way through the Bible for the first time, especially the various enemies God prepared to subjugate Israel. I wondered what they were like, and how they may have changed, both before and after their experience with Israel. It's also interesting which parts there is historical evidence for, and which there is not.

 

[Tessa]

Sorry I posted my answers not realising your conversations were not over. Didn't mean to interrupt.
Perhaps they can be moved to another thread?

 

[Jim Parker]

what part of the bible flood scripture passages would be considered the jewish people telling their story rather than stating a fact?

One further thought.

One way to look at the story of the flood is that it is historical in the way we look at history today. It's about Noah and his wife and three sons and a huge boat, etc.

Another way to look at the flood story is that it is a rebuttal and correction of the older, pagan, Mesopotamian flood stories so that God's message is presented clearly.

Both approaches to the flood story work. What is important is not the details (like the size of the boat) but what God is telling us.

jim

 

[Jim Parker]

I wondered what they were like, and how they may have changed, both before and after their experience with Israel. It's also interesting which parts there is historical evidence for, and which there is not.

One thing that does not change throughout history is the character of mankind.
Those who do not serve God serve the devil.
Those who serve God, over time, become more like God. God is love and life and truth.
Those who serve the devil, over time, become more like the devil. The devil is a liar, a murderer and death.
The enemies of Israel in ancient times are not too different from the enemies of Israel today. Both then and now, their desire has always been the total annihilation of God's chosen people.

jim

 

[Truthfrees]

Sorry I posted my answers not realising your conversations were not over. Didn't mean to interrupt.
Perhaps they can be moved to another thread?

no problem at all - your answers are very helpful and not at all an interruption - thanks for posting here and now

i think this is the catchall thread for all things pertaining to lesson 1 that we want to discuss

 

[Truthfrees]

One part is that there are two stories that are very skillfully woven together. One has rain for 40 days and then an additional year in the Ark; the other has rain for 40 years and then three weeks in the ark. They represent the Elohist (priestly) and Yahwist traditions.

40 days and nights of rain is Genesis 7:12

i can't find the raining for 40 years story - where is that in the bible?

 

[Jim Parker]

40 days and nights of rain is Genesis 7:12

i can't find the raining for 40 years story - where is that in the bible?

OOOOOPS!!!

That's 40 DAYS!

 

[Razeontherock]

40 days, 40 years - just details, lol

Something really interesting about this is how scoffers like to say the flood was impossible because there's not enough water. Yet Scripture plainly says not all of the water fell as rain, but it also came up from below. And there are fossilized critters that obviously died from this. And science now claims there is far more water beneath the Earth's crust, likely more water than there is in the oceans.

Which would make Noah's flood entirely possible, as long as all the water didn't stay on the surface too long