Bible Study Honor thy mother and thy father?

[gecko]

I hope this is the correct section for this question!

I would like to get some insight into what it means to "honor" your parents, as we are commanded to do in the fifth commandment.

The obvious answer, I would think, is basically love and respect. But here's my problem: My father was an abusive alcoholic. My mother was emotionally unavailable and enabled my father's abusive behaviour, until the day she walked out, leaving us with him. I feel no love for either of them, and I don't think I could respect them, even if I tried. My father died just over a year ago, so in his case it is basically his memory that I need to "honor", but I I remember him only with contempt. My mother is still alive. We have infrequent contact, and I manage to be civil. I confess, that's about as much as I can do.

I understand that we don't get to choose which commandments we want to obey, so I really want to understand what it is that God expects from me, so that I can work on it...

 

[King James]

Your story sounds very familiar. Why do you feel the need to do this honoring? What is over is over. Your civility to your mother is respect. Respect is honor. Maybe things will improve.
No need to do anything now with your father. The funny thing is you will find it easier to forgive him. It might not seem like it now. The forgiveness will come in stages. It's easier when they are dead.

 

[Danus]

I think, as has been pointed out, that forgiveness in your heart is the key here. Recognizing that your mother and father are people who struggled with their own brokenness like everyone else.

You don't have to accept what they did, or didn't do, or see them as right. But, you don't have to blame them either. No one is right. Everyone is broken in some way. Forgiveness is one of the cornerstones of the Gospel, and the foundation for Love. Your parents may very well not deserve forgiveness, but neither do we and yet God forgives us. We are to forgive as God forgives us.

 

[gecko]

Why do you feel the need to do this honoring?

Because God commands me to...

I don't really want to, but I don't want to be the guy who says to God sorry, but I'll only obey some of your commandments either...

As for forgiveness, that's a work in progress. I'm trying, but it's not something that happens instantly. Not for me, anyway.

 

[Paul1965]

Hello Gecko, as Danus and King James have already said, forgiveness is the key. Okay, so it doesn't come easy sometimes. I know that only too well. It's something many of us struggle with at times. Especially "instant forgiveness". Maybe you need to look at the triggers for your dads drinking. Was he subjected to the same sort of relationship as a youngster? Maybe your mum didn't know what else to do and felt she had no-one to turn to for help so the "fight or flight" reaction kicked in. When you find these answers, maybe you'll be able to find forgiveness in your heart.
As for your original question, my interpretation has always been as respect and to conduct ourselves in a way that does not reflect badly towards our parents. If you conduct your life in a way where people respect you,they'll think, rightly or wrongly, that your parents brought you up well, therefore paying homage or respect to them.
Blessings

 

[gecko]

Maybe you need to look at the triggers for your dads drinking. Was he subjected to the same sort of relationship as a youngster? Maybe your mum didn't know what else to do and felt she had no-one to turn to for help so the "fight or flight" reaction kicked in. When you find these answers, maybe you'll be able to find forgiveness in your heart.

I know why my mother left. That is why I can have some compassion, and be civil to her. In that sense you are right. But it does not excuse what she did before she left. As for my father - I doubt anything I learn about his past will make it easier to forgive him. There simply isn't a good excuse for what he did. I can forgive him for the drinking - I had my own share of substance abuse issues, so I get that - but it isn't only about the drinking. It's about the stuff he did when he was drunk, and even more so about the stuff he did when he was slightly less drunk. And one thing he did when he was hadn't had a drink in almost 3 years...

But, as I've said, I'm working on it. Step 1 is to let go of the anger, and I am making good progress with that.

As for your original question, my interpretation has always been as respect and to conduct ourselves in a way that does not reflect badly towards our parents. If you conduct your life in a way where people respect you,they'll think, rightly or wrongly, that your parents brought you up well, therefore paying homage or respect to them.
Blessings

Interesting. This is very similar to how it was explained to me by someone at my church. Where would something like saying things that reflect badly on our parents fit in, if we assume that I wouldn't be telling lies. In short - calling my father a sick, twisted man would reflect badly on him, but its true. Am I supposed to keep quiet about it?

 

[WIP]

I agree with others. Forgive...forgive...forgive. As long as you harbor your hatred and grudge you are not honoring them. Jesus was being nailed to a cross that he did not deserve and yet he forgave. He is our example to follow.

 

[providence]

related: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=45419

 

[Deborah13]

Because God commands me to...

I don't really want to, but I don't want to be the guy who says to God sorry, but I'll only obey some of your commandments either...

As for forgiveness, that's a work in progress. I'm trying, but it's not something that happens instantly. Not for me, anyway.

gecko, because I am a woman I don't not usually reply to men when they are posting on persoanal matters. I feel that it is best that men counsel men because men understand men.
However, in this case I don't feel as if I am counseling the man you are but the child in you. The child who is so full of pain and guilt and because I have been where you are at as a child from an abuse home.

First, know that there is no, absolutely NO, excuse for abuse. I don't care how someone was raised or what was done to them, in fact if it was done to them they KNOW how evil it is and how painful it is to a child. They choose to do what they do.
Know that none of it was your fault in anyway shape or form. Satan begins working on child in an abuse home in several way. Instilling anger and unforgiveness is probably the least harmful. It is guilt that he is after, children ask themselves what they need to do to be loved, what they did to cause the pain. In children who have been sexually abused this guilt is even more profound, (I'm not saying this pertains to you). He tries to destroy not only a child's innocence but his value of himself/herself.
Then as an adult he uses the laws of God, which are good and holy, to enslave the adult by once again thinking they are still guilty of some other offense.

First let me say that I prayed that the Holy Spirit would guide me in the words I say to you from here on in this post. I do not say this is revelation knowledge only that I am speaking the thoughts that have come to me. As you pray He may reveal to you some other way, it is your personal relationship with Jesus that is important. This is not how the Lord showed me in my personal walk with Him in letting go of the past and in forgiveness. This may even sound strange as it even does to me in a way.

The Lord as planted good seed in your heart, Jesus, the uncorruptable seed. However, there were other seeds, corrupted seeds, planted before you knew Him. These seeds grow thorns, planted by the evil one. These thorns must be pulled, even dug out, to get the root, so they must not come back. As you take each offense, each memory of the past, pull it out put it in a box. Keep adding to the box through out the day then seal up the box and write Jesus' name on the box and present it to Him. We know from the Word what Jesus does with the thorns, He burns them. Because He burns them they can no longer go to seed and produce more thorns. We also know that those that are allowed to remain will go to seed and produce more thorns crowding out the good seed that is trying to grow in your heart. So don't allow them to stay immediately recognize where they are coming from, puck them up. Don't mediate on them, don't fertilize and water them. Keeping presenting them to Jesus so that He can burn them up. Stop trying to do His job and just do your own, giving them to Him. As you do He will do His work in you cleansing you of pain and destruction.

As for your mother who is still living and forgivness to her. Yes, forgiveness is what must happen in order for you to be at peace and please the Lord, glorifying Him. Just how do you do this?
YOU don't. We as men are not capable of doing this but Jesus will produce this good work in you. So what do you do? You do what you can do, Pray.
Pray for your mother and you will be Honoring her before the Lord. As you pray for her the love of God will be "shed abound in your heart". Not only will you know that Jesus loves her but you will know how much He loves you. He will sanctify (cleanse you) for all unrighteousness. As you pray for her you know you are operating in His perfect will therefore you can know that He will hear your prays.
A pray for her may be something like this, that the Holy Spirit prepare her heart to receive the Word and that the Holy Spirit send someone to bring her the Word.

Peace, blessings, and the Love of the Lord be your's.

 

[gecko]

Sorry for taking so long to reply - after a few days and getting no reply, I gave up and stopped checking. Didn't see these replies until today.

Know that none of it was your fault in anyway shape or form. Satan begins working on child in an abuse home in several way. Instilling anger and unforgiveness is probably the least harmful. It is guilt that he is after, children ask themselves what they need to do to be loved, what they did to cause the pain. In children who have been sexually abused this guilt is even more profound, (I'm not saying this pertains to you). He tries to destroy not only a child's innocence but his value of himself/herself.
Then as an adult he uses the laws of God, which are good and holy, to enslave the adult by once again thinking they are still guilty of some other offense.

Wow. That is pretty profound - especially since I am currently working of forgiving myself/admitting my own innocence. I never thought that this question was so closely related to that, but you are right. It is.

The Lord as planted good seed in your heart, Jesus, the uncorruptable seed. However, there were other seeds, corrupted seeds, planted before you knew Him. These seeds grow thorns, planted by the evil one. These thorns must be pulled, even dug out, to get the root, so they must not come back. As you take each offense, each memory of the past, pull it out put it in a box. Keep adding to the box through out the day then seal up the box and write Jesus' name on the box and present it to Him. We know from the Word what Jesus does with the thorns, He burns them. Because He burns them they can no longer go to seed and produce more thorns. We also know that those that are allowed to remain will go to seed and produce more thorns crowding out the good seed that is trying to grow in your heart. So don't allow them to stay immediately recognize where they are coming from, puck them up. Don't mediate on them, don't fertilize and water them. Keeping presenting them to Jesus so that He can burn them up. Stop trying to do His job and just do your own, giving them to Him. As you do He will do His work in you cleansing you of pain and destruction.

I don't think I fully understand what you wrote here, but I will read it again and again, and hopefully it starts to make sense at some point.

YOU don't. We as men are not capable of doing this but Jesus will produce this good work in you. So what do you do? You do what you can do, Pray.
Pray for your mother and you will be Honoring her before the Lord. As you pray for her the love of God will be "shed abound in your heart". Not only will you know that Jesus loves her but you will know how much He loves you. He will sanctify (cleanse you) for all unrighteousness. As you pray for her you know you are operating in His perfect will therefore you can know that He will hear your prays.
A pray for her may be something like this, that the Holy Spirit prepare her heart to receive the Word and that the Holy Spirit send someone to bring her the Word.

I like this. It's something I can actively do, and I will do it.

Thank you.

 

[By Grace]

I know why my mother left. That is why I can have some compassion, and be civil to her. In that sense you are right. But it does not excuse what she did before she left. As for my father - I doubt anything I learn about his past will make it easier to forgive him. There simply isn't a good excuse for what he did. I can forgive him for the drinking - I had my own share of substance abuse issues, so I get that - but it isn't only about the drinking. It's about the stuff he did when he was drunk, and even more so about the stuff he did when he was slightly less drunk. And one thing he did when he was hadn't had a drink in almost 3 years...

But, as I've said, I'm working on it. Step 1 is to let go of the anger, and I am making good progress with that.


Interesting. This is very similar to how it was explained to me by someone at my church. Where would something like saying things that reflect badly on our parents fit in, if we assume that I wouldn't be telling lies. In short - calling my father a sick, twisted man would reflect badly on him, but its true. Am I supposed to keep quiet about it?

We are commanded to forgive because unforgiveness is akin to eating rat poison, hoping that the rat will die. But forgiveness is NOT the same as forgetting. Not being able to forget the things of the past is a gift that helps us preserve ourselves and those whom we love. It keeps us from falling into the same abusive patterns we had as a helpless child.

In the same manner, not forgetting does not gloss over the ugly truth of the past. But forgiveness frees the other from the "obligations" the abuser has to us. Such obligations may be thinking "You OWE me!" or "You were a terrible father to me!" or "You caused me to lose my mother!". Yes, it is true that those things happened, and it is also true that the things can not be reversed, or eradicated. But those things happened in your life so that you could become the man who you are today. Aside from the scars, had that abuse not happened, you would not bethe man who you are today. Rest assured that Jesus abhors child abuse, and I believe that Matthew 18:6 also includes child abuse when it says, 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

As one who was emotionally abused, I an aware of the justifiable rage and the "magical thinking" --if I only did that instead of this, no abuse would happen --and the subsequent warping of the personality that comes from abuse. (I am writing on the secular mind set here.) For some, years of therapy are investments, which pay dividends in future peace, and a firm resolve to not continue the ugliness of the past. If you have not sought out a certified Biblical counselor, I urge you to do so.

Now to get on to your question about respect.

Having bee in the service, I learned this about saluting officers. "Salute the rank, not the person." That remains the adage in the military. My son with 12 years in the USAF is in daily contact with arrogant hot shot fighter pilots. It was their attitude towards him and other enlisted personnel which made him turn against going to a bootstrap program, but that is an illustration of how the adage works regarding giving respect to your parents. In the military, respect is giving a salute, and with adult children, respect is giving honor to the people who parented you irrespective of their success or failure in doing that role.

You are not responsible for anything that your parents did, but you ARE responsible how you react to them now. You did not say if you were married or have children. I can say through first hand experience, and in observing the results of unforgiving adult children, that the sooner you deal with the issues of abuse in your past, the sooner you will heak from the abuse.

Not dealing with your inner turmoil is a sure recipe for creating a toxic marriage, and perhaps making some of the same errors of your parents, even though you promise yourself that it will not happen. Again, this is the voice of experience writing.

Your struggle is good in the fact that you are entering a spiritual battle, trying to deal with the past, and simultaneously trying to honor God in all that you do. In cases like this you can never lean too hard on the mercy and justice of Jesus Christ to help you over come the evil in your childhood.

Being a victim of abuse is not an option anyone has. But getting help and victory over that abuse is a choice we have. Eventually, as you trust Jesus Christ to heal you, you will be a victor.

 

[gecko]

Thank you for your detailed response, Grace.

We are commanded to forgive because unforgiveness is akin to eating rat poison, hoping that the rat will die. But forgiveness is NOT the same as forgetting. Not being able to forget the things of the past is a gift that helps us preserve ourselves and those whom we love. It keeps us from falling into the same abusive patterns we had as a helpless child.

I understand that. This is why I have been working on forgiving them. Fortunately, I've made significant progress on this. The blind rage is gone. In it's place is contempt/indifference. I am not yet at a place where I can shrug off what they did, but I'm getting there. I'm glad I was able to let go of the rage. It was destructive. As you say - like rat poison. I still feel some resentment though. I expect that as I heal, it will become easier to also let that go.

As one who was emotionally abused, I an aware of the justifiable rage and the "magical thinking" --if I only did that instead of this, no abuse would happen --and the subsequent warping of the personality that comes from abuse. (I am writing on the secular mind set here.) For some, years of therapy are investments, which pay dividends in future peace, and a firm resolve to not continue the ugliness of the past. If you have not sought out a certified Biblical counselor, I urge you to do so.

I'm sorry you were emotionally abused. Emotional abuse was also one of my father's tools, perhaps even the most destructive one.

I am seeing a therapist - a clinical psychologist who specialises in childhood trauma, and who is also an EMDR specialist. The abuse that I suffered included emotional, physical and sexual abuse and left me with some very real mental health problems that requires specialist treatment. I will, however, definitely consider also seeing a Biblical counselor, since I believe they might be better equipped to help me reconcile my past with my faith.

Now to get on to your question about respect. in
...
respect is giving honor to the people who parented you irrespective of their success or failure in doing that role.

And that is where I get back to my original question - I can respect "parents" in general. I can respect the role of a parent. But I cannot go much beyond that. From where I stand, there is nothing honorable about them.

No, that's not entirely true. Of my mother, I can at least say that the way in which she handled us making contact for the first time since 1983, was honorable. I can respect the changes she had made, and have compassion for the suffering she has endured in her life. If I can pretend that she is just a women, who I met for the first time last year, I could probably respect her. Perhaps that is what I should focus on, rather than the mother she was (or rather, was not). As for my father, however, I know of nothing about him that I could ever honour or respect.

You did not say if you were married or have children. I can say through first hand experience, and in observing the results of unforgiving adult children, that the sooner you deal with the issues of abuse in your past, the sooner you will heak from the abuse.

I was married. My wife passed away in October 2009 leaving me a single father to our daughter, who is now 6 years old. That is part of what set in motion the chain of events that brought me here. I had undergone a fair amount of therapy in my twenties, and that enabled me to have a happy marriage, but it was not enough to ensure lasting happiness. After my wife's passing the cracks began to surface again, which is why I am now back in therapy. Fortunately, my search for peace and happiness also lead me to church, and to Christianity. I now believe that growing in my faith will be an integral part of my healing journey. I guess that is why I am starting to ask these questions now...

 

[By Grace]

One thing that I like about Biblical Counseling is that it is very much like the secular cognitive therapy method in the secular realm. By that I mean Biblical counseling is based on the Biblical premise, "As a man thinketh in his heart, so he is." But of course it is Scripture + Holy Spirit doing the work of transforming the inner man. While you may go exclusively with one counselor in the future, I do not believe that is wrong to see both a secular counselor concurrently-- until you choose the more effective method. If one counselor urges you to stay exclusively with him/her, that is a good indication of which counselor to leave and I believe that is the one urging you to stay with him.

If toy want to discuss things with me in a less public place, PM me, and we can get together.

 

[iLOVE]

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments." John 14:15
But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:15

You must secure your salvation. Bitterness and unforgiveness will send you to the lake of fire.
The reason why you posted this question is because Jesus is talking to your heart and He loves you. I understand it is a process.

 

[iLOVE]

Nothing works in the life for a christian in unforgiveness. Because God did not withhold is beloved Son Jesus from us, God will not allow you to skip this important step because of what His Son Jesus did for us on the cross. The words that you speak can help you or hurt you.

so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11

 

[gecko]

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments." John 14:15
But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:15

You must secure your salvation. Bitterness and unforgiveness will send you to the lake of fire.

Thanks. Fire and brimstone was exactly what I needed.

Matthew 6:15 is exactly what kept me away from Church for most of my adult life because I never believed that I could claim forgiveness until I have succeeded in completely forgiving everyone else. Fortunately, someone explained to me that God understands that I am human, and therefore weak. He doesn't require success. What he does require, is sincere and dedicated effort. I believe I've been making a sincere and dedicated effort to forgive. A God who will send me to eternal hell for not accomplishing instant success is not a God a want to serve.

 

[gecko]

Thanks, By Grace.

I will send you a PM.

 

[By Grace]

You really must have a bad case of insomnia! 4:16 in the morning!

 

[gecko]

You really must have a bad case of insomnia! 4:16 in the morning!

I do, actually, but that wasn't what caused the timing of this post - I'm not American ;)

 

[By Grace]

I think that you need to put the past behind you and look forward to the future with the Lord. At the least you can use it as a learning experience. All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Things may have been bad, but perhaps they could have been worse also. In this way, perhaps he was doing as good as he could but made many mistakes. We all do. The best way that you could honor him now is to pray for God to forgive him and have mercy upon him. This will allow forgiveness to come into your heart and let you be a better man than he was. With the same rule that you judge your father, you will be judged. May the Lord bless you and give you strength. You must find forgiveness in your heart.

Good model of Biblical counseling!

The difficult part is to find a counselor who is trained in the t discipline in his nation (Australia?) who can help lead his through the process babt step by baby step,