Horrifying. "Given eternal flesh to feel pain for eternity".

[Bob Carabbio]

do you believe this ideology to be false?

Well - it IS fanciful, of course. PROBABLY false in most of it's rank speculations.

And since NOBODY really KNOWS ANYTHING about the eternal doom of those who aren't saved (except that it's not gonna be pleasant) it's just a theory. There will be torment (obviously), and whoever GOES there - deserved it - period (God judges with RIGHTEOUS Judgement).

It SOUNDS like an old fashioned hell-fire and brimstone: "Scare 'em to death, and get 'em to the alter" sermon.

 

[KCKID]

Alabaster, . . . . . I'm sorry, but I couldn't run to such an entity that would do such a thing to those who only "chose poorly". . . . if what you say is true. I couldn't consciously do that and live with my actions. . . which would be one of condoning. 2

God gave me a mind with which to reason (thanks God!) so that I CAN run from such an entity who would ever propose such a thing as eternal torment.

 

[Alabaster]

God gave me a mind with which to reason (thanks God!) so that I CAN run from such an entity who would ever propose such a thing as eternal torment.

Rejecting His justice is rejecting God and embracing a human-created caricature. Fear and lack of understanding of who God really is is the reason.

 

[Deavonreye]

I wonder how those who were cremated [and perhaps released at sea] will "rise from their graves".

Thing is, any religion of value won't have any need for "scare tactics" such as these to "sway people into the religion". I see absolutely no way that "spirit beings", such as "fallen angels", will be affected at all by a literal fire. And I find it awful to suggest that bodies will be revived, made incorruptable, just so their pain receptors will fully send pain signals to an eternal brain, out of some sort of "deserved punishment". Nothing I have ever done in my life is that evil!!!

 

[KCKID]

Rejecting His justice is rejecting God and embracing a human-created caricature. Fear and lack of understanding of who God really is is the reason.

Eternal torment (literal eternal torment, that is, as opposed to figurative eternal torment) is the opposite to 'justice'. And, my belief in the Creator God is quite different to that of yours. The God of my belief is a loving God and not a tyrant.

 

[KCKID]

I wonder how those who were cremated [and perhaps released at sea] will "rise from their graves".

Thing is, any religion of value won't have any need for "scare tactics" such as these to "sway people into the religion". I see absolutely no way that "spirit beings", such as "fallen angels", will be affected at all by a literal fire. And I find it awful to suggest that bodies will be revived, made incorruptable, just so their pain receptors will fully send pain signals to an eternal brain, out of some sort of "deserved punishment". Nothing I have ever done in my life is that evil!!!

Do you know what the REAL answer is to your question? NO ONE knows what occurs to a human being once they depart this life. Some would prefer to give you some passed down from generation to generation horror story but a story is ALL that it is. No one knows. So, don't worry about it ...just live a good and happy life!

 

[Oats]

This thread pulls from another thread that was closed do to UR issues.

But I sat here . . . horrified. . . at the thought that was stated in response to my question:

"I would like to know how a 'spirit being' is affected by a literal fire"?

I've heard this before [when I was still in church], and was disgusted in it then, but this ideology was stated again on here.

The answer was basically [and paraphrased] that "the damned are given new bodies of flesh and blood so that, when sent to hell, they will FEEL the pain of the literal fire!" What amazes me is that this type of thought can be expressed so openly and without apology, . . . and even with an aire of "they deserve it". It is one of the things that caused me to be be drawn forcefully away from my church doctrine. The thought of this [if true] is, in my opinion, the very height of evil.

My question is, . . . do you believe this ideology to be false?

I honestly don't know

But they deserve it

if man can give a criminal the electric chair,

why can't God who is far more wise punish the wicked


we all are guilty, thank God for his mercy

you know?

 

[Alabaster]

I wonder how those who were cremated [and perhaps released at sea] will "rise from their graves".

Thing is, any religion of value won't have any need for "scare tactics" such as these to "sway people into the religion". I see absolutely no way that "spirit beings", such as "fallen angels", will be affected at all by a literal fire. And I find it awful to suggest that bodies will be revived, made incorruptable, just so their pain receptors will fully send pain signals to an eternal brain, out of some sort of "deserved punishment". Nothing I have ever done in my life is that evil!!!

All the dead (Christians) will rise from where they rest---burned ashes, bones from the bottom of the sea, any condition, from everywhere on earth, and will be united with their spirits in new, glorified flesh.

The same kind of resurrection will happen with the wicked so that their flesh can withstand the glory of God, in whose presence they will stand.

If you are not a member of the family of God through faith in Jesus, it doesn't matter what sin you have committed or not--you will see hellfire. There are compartments in hell--some worse than others. Jesus alludes to it.

 

[Alabaster]

Eternal torment (literal eternal torment, that is, as opposed to figurative eternal torment) is the opposite to 'justice'. And, my belief in the Creator God is quite different to that of yours. The God of my belief is a loving God and not a tyrant.

God is love itself. He also has all the character traits a human has been given---you know---we are created in His image? He also has wrath, and He promises a time where He will express it.

You cannot take His love and turn a blind eye to God's entire character.

 

[Alabaster]

Do you know what the REAL answer is to your question? NO ONE knows what occurs to a human being once they depart this life. Some would prefer to give you some passed down from generation to generation horror story but a story is ALL that it is. No one knows. So, don't worry about it ...just live a good and happy life!

What a terrible witness to truth.

The word of God tells us plenty about what to expect. Rose-coloured glasses do not become you. What a disservice to those who need Christ!

 

[Deavonreye]

Alabaster and Oats, . . . NO ONE deserves to be given flesh and bone bodies that can feel this literal fire for all of eternity, ONLY because they didn't make a BRAIN CHOICE. Satan and his legion are said to be FAR more evil than humans, . . . yet they don't get "flesh and bone" bodies to feel the pain?? Seems that god would have to severely hate people he sends there.

KCKID, a truly advanced AND loving deity would choose a path of peace and love over this "travesty of justice" and hate. And yes, we only have these stories, which have no evidence, . . . and even NO original manuscripts to go by. Copies of copies, yet those [in this country] who don't believe it are seen as "second class citizens". What they don't know is that the actual truth IS out there to be found to those willing to go beyond tradition and "fear of making the unknown angry".

 

[Free]

What a terrible witness to truth.

The word of God tells us plenty about what to expect. Rose-coloured glasses do not become you. What a disservice to those who need Christ!

It tells us a small amount which can be taken several different ways depending on what preconceived ideas one approaches the text with.

 

[Free]

Alabaster and Oats, . . . NO ONE deserves to be given flesh and bone bodies that can feel this literal fire for all of eternity, ONLY because they didn't make a BRAIN CHOICE. Satan and his legion are said to be FAR more evil than humans, . . . yet they don't get "flesh and bone" bodies to feel the pain?? Seems that god would have to severely hate people he sends there.

KCKID, a truly advanced AND loving deity would choose a path of peace and love over this "travesty of justice" and hate. And yes, we only have these stories, which have no evidence, . . . and even NO original manuscripts to go by. Copies of copies, yet those [in this country] who don't believe it are seen as "second class citizens". What they don't know is that the actual truth IS out there to be found to those willing to go beyond tradition and "fear of making the unknown angry".

Again, their view is one of several out there and is no reason to reject God or the Christian faith. And don't argue to the lack of original manuscripts. Such an argument cannot be sustained.

 

[Deavonreye]

I think it can be sustained enough, but won't continue on that.

As for this topic, enough feel that it IS true . . . and IF true, it definitely keeps me from accepting what I find deplorable.

 

[Free]

As for this topic, enough feel that it IS true . . . and IF true, it definitely keeps me from accepting what I find deplorable.

I'm sure you would agree that a majority believing something to be true doesn't make it true. And if you agree, then it shouldn't keep you from accepting Christianity.

 

[Deavonreye]

I'm sure you would agree that a majority believing something to be true doesn't make it true. And if you agree, then it shouldn't keep you from accepting Christianity.

There are a few other things that would have to be proven to be untrue before "accepting", . . . . but even then, I wouldn't be able to "fall in love" with a concept. Ancient writings are not personal to me.

 

[glorydaz]

Alabaster, as you stated, . . . and my former church taught, . . . . this isn't just "justice", . . . giving people the means to FEEL an "eternal fire" for all eternity is completely unecessary and [I'm sorry] is HIGHLY evil and vandictive, to be honest.

IF "hell" was created for "the devil and his angels", . . . are THEY given these "flesh and blood bodies to feel pain"?

Man is composed of body, soul, and spirit.
The "flesh and blood" body is only temporary.
It returns to the dust.

Only those who have been born again will attain eternal life. Unbelievers don't have eternal life. I'm not sure where you've heard that the unsaved will have "flesh and blood bodies" and suffer for eternity, but I don't believe that.

If you look at the wheat and the chaff, it's the FIRE that is unquenchable...

Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

or the grapes and vines

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

you'll see the great harvest of the earth....the fire is unquenchable, the "smoke" of torment rises forever and ever. This all refers to the triumph of good over evil and the "rightness" of God's judgment of mankind.

The unsaved have "no rest" whereas the saved can rest. That doesn't mean unsaved suffer endlessly but suffer because they are eternally separate from God. They have never and can never enter into the "rest". Since they refused His offer of salvation, they merely receive no more than they expect....however many years they have on this earth. God will judge us all. The Word speaks of "outer darkness" and "weeping and gnashing of teeth" for those not written in the Lamb's Book of LIFE. I don't believe the Word speaks of eternal life for those who don't accept the free gift of salvation. The unsaved live their life here on earth and will be anguished when they have to appear before the great white throne to discover they missed their chance to live forever with the Lord in glory. God is love. He doesn't allow some to come and not others. Whosoever will may come, but come they must if they want eternal life.

 

[Alabaster]

Alabaster and Oats, . . . NO ONE deserves to be given flesh and bone bodies that can feel this literal fire for all of eternity, ONLY because they didn't make a BRAIN CHOICE. Satan and his legion are said to be FAR more evil than humans, . . . yet they don't get "flesh and bone" bodies to feel the pain?? Seems that god would have to severely hate people he sends there.

It is a decision of the heart where the God of the universe comes and lives in us.

Your repugnance at what His plan for the containment of all evil in the world is typical of those who consider themselves higher than God.

KCKID, a truly advanced AND loving deity would choose a path of peace and love over this "travesty of justice" and hate. And yes, we only have these stories, which have no evidence, . . . and even NO original manuscripts to go by. Copies of copies, yet those [in this country] who don't believe it are seen as "second class citizens". What they don't know is that the actual truth IS out there to be found to those willing to go beyond tradition and "fear of making the unknown angry".

God has chosen for us a path of love and peace...in Jesus Christ, the Messiah.

The actual truth has been doled out to you by shovelful, but you look for something else. There is no other way to God, but by Jesus Christ.

 

[Alabaster]

It tells us a small amount which can be taken several different ways depending on what preconceived ideas one approaches the text with.

Our interpreter and teacher, Holy Spirit, shows us the same truths. We need to allow Him to reveal the truth and let Him override our preconceived notions. That is how we achieve unity in the faith.

 

[glorydaz]

There are a few other things that would have to be proven to be untrue before "accepting", . . . . but even then, I wouldn't be able to "fall in love" with a concept. Ancient writings are not personal to me.

This reminds me of myself many years ago. A friend brought me a copy of Late Great Planet Earth, and I was amazed to learn so many prophecies from the Bible were coming true before my eyes. I wondered how a book written centuries before could be so accurate. I quickly put down that book and picked up the Bible...let's just say the Lord opened my eyes in a wonderful way. I could only repeat what the blind man said....I don't know how it happened, but once I was blind and now I can see. Jesus isn't a "concept", but the sun coming out on a cloudy day. I hope you find Him.